Anyone know why it takes longer to obtain an Md/Phd at some schools more than others?

[neofight]

I'm really curious as to why it takes longer to obtain an Md/Phd at some schools more than others. Is it really because grad programs of those longer-degree-granting schools feel their students need to "pay their dues"? I mean, I know it depends on an individual's background and research interest and that some schools really push their students to finish sooner (Stanford) or later (Harvard) but really, does it have more to do with the grad program's culture?

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[Angeliqua]

I don't think it really has anything to do with individual schools thinking you should "pay your dues." Although some grad programs at specific schools do have more stringent requirments on courses, teaching requirements, etc. That kind of thing will definitely lengthen the process. If an MD/PhD student does their grad work in a biology grad program then chances are they cover a lot of their course work during the med school coursework in the first two years, therefore enabling them to start thesis work right away when they enter the PhD portion of their studies. Whereas, if someone chooses to do the PhD in a bioengineering field or structural biochemistry (for example) they will likely have to take a few classes above and beyond the standard med/grad school cell bio/biochem/journal club courses. This could contribute to some of the students at Harvard, specifically, in the HST program who seem to take a long time in the MD/PhD program. Some of the MSTP students I know at Harvard who are in a cell bio-type lab actually finish rather rapidly (specifically if doing yeast work).

I think the reason some schools appear to take longer to graduate their MD/PhDs is based more on the graduate disciplines offered and the inherent "difficulties" of some disciplines than the actual school wanting to keep the poor students there forever. Typically, at any program you are going to have to prove yourself as a scientist (in the form of publications, etc.) in order to graduate. I don't think some programs offer a PhD-lite...and others are particularly grueling. It is really based on the path individual students decide to take and some programs attract certain types of students therefore making the entire program appear to be "fast" or "slow."

just my speculations.

 

[Neuronix]

My speculation is that it mostly has to do with the requirements of the graduate program and the medical school. Things like PhD specialty chosen or individual will to get finished should be washed out in the average. What it comes down to is, does the medical school require 4 years? Or do they truncate for MD/PhDs? Does the graduate school want 6 months - 1 year of teaching? Is the graduate school going to force you to do 3 rotations even if you have significant research experience and you know exactly what you want to do? What about graduate course requirements? How willing is the committee to push students and PIs to get finished?

I think all these questions will get factored into the average graduation time for a student. I've seen it with my own eyes at different programs. I asked questions about almost all of these at almost every school I interviewed at. Note that when they ask "do you have any questions?" they want some BS question, not a question about average graduation time and the requirements leading to their particular average.

 

[MacGyver]

Originally posted by Neuronix
Note that when they ask "do you have any questions?" they want some BS question, not a question about average graduation time and the requirements leading to their particular average.

Truer words have never been spoken

 

[surge]

Originally posted by Neuronix
Note that when they ask "do you have any questions?" they want some BS question, not a question about average graduation time and the requirements leading to their particular average.

LMAO!

You should've seen the look on Dr. Jamieson's face when I went into the attrition rates and such at Yale

In their defense, they are actually fairly low.

 

[chef]

Originally posted by Angeliqua
ISome of the MSTP students I know at Harvard who are in a cell bio-type lab actually finish rather rapidly (specifically if doing yeast work).

hello, why would one finish more rapidly in a yeast cell bio lab? i'm curious why yeast research would be quicker and if it indeed is why i've never met any mstp who does yeast research.

 

[DarkChild]

Originally posted by chef
hello, why would one finish more rapidly in a yeast cell bio lab? i'm curious why yeast research would be quicker and if it indeed is why i've never met any mstp who does yeast research.

well the yeast genome is relatively small and fully sequenced. plus its bacterial culture stuff so its easy to grow up quickly and molecular biology techinques are very easy to apply.
as to why you wont find many mstp's doing it - 1) it is very unrelated to medicine (usually - they are prokaryotes ) 2) no offence to the hardcore yeasters - but its boring

 

[Neuronix]

Yeast is a eukaryote, not a prokaryote/bacterium. Alot of people, including a number of MSTPs, do research with yeast because they are a good model system for research topics in molecular biology. For example, a large amount of work in yeast is being done to discover the mechanisms of epigenetic regulation. Current and trial drug therapies for cancer target epigenetic regulators (such as HDACs). Also, a great deal of our knowledge of the eukaryotic cell cycle comes from yeast. In fact, almost all of the basic cellular systems conserved through all eukaryotes can be studied in yeast. Because of that, I'm sure there are plenty of other medically relevant things being modelled with yeast (intracellular trafficking, signal transduction, etc...).

Otherwise I will agree with what you said. They are easy to grow, easy to manipulate, and there is alot of existing genome data for them.