Anyone rethinking their decision?

[Toadkiller Dog]

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Has the new OK law re: optometrists doing surgery got anyone rethinking their decision to go into ophthalmology?

I have to admit I found the news very depressing. But in the end, I had to stick with ophtho b/c I can't really see myself doing anything else. Anyone else?

 

[mdkurt]

Not a chance. Ophthalmology is a unique field, so if it's in your blood there's nothing you can do about it. The Oklahoma law is so appalling and so destructive for the relationship between ophthalmologists and optometrists that I can't believe it's going to stand. If it does, you can be sure that the AAO (fueled by lots more of my money) is going to have to start a public awareness program so that the public can decide for themselves who they want doing their surgery. I also won't be afraid to give patients a frank assessment of what happened when I start getting referrals for OD complications.

 

[Andrew_Doan]

The OK law hasn't changed my mind. Ophthalmology is an awesome career! 😉

 

[Mirror Form]

My mind hasn't been changed by the OK law either, but it's causing me a lot of anxiety!

 

[JR]

You guys must be crazy! How can this OK situation shake your decision about the best speciality in medicine?! Yes, it is a set back, but, in my opinion, in the long run ophthalmology will establish itself as a true standard in eye care and general public will finally learn the difference between optometry and ophthalmology.

Personally, I am very happy I've chosen this field and can't WAIT to begin my training!

P.S. 17 days untill M.D.

 

[Richard_Hom]

Dear Doctors and "Doctors-to-be":

Frankly, I'm quite amazed why or what optometrists would do or get to do should change one's career goals.

In my estimation, ophthalmology in its present form flourishes, both from their success in treating diseases in many more different ways and branching out to "cosmetic" (in other words refractive) realm.

All you venture or wish to enter ophthalmology should do so without trepidation because five years from now, I don't think anything that optometry will get to do will even make a dent in what ophthalmology will do.

Seriously folks, I don't think thare are that many optometrists who will want to do this.In my mind, the only people who are benefitting from this arguement are the politicians who are collecting huge sums of money from both PACs.

 

[modelcitizen]

Ophtho's out for me. Then again, it was never really a realistic option as a Caribb/DO graduate-to-be. But now, after reading all of these opto vs. ophtho threads (and seeing the $96K starting salaries), I can't say it's very desirable either. To each his own.

 

[Andrew_Doan]

Ophtho's out for me. Then again, it was never really a realistic option as a Caribb/DO graduate-to-be. But now, after reading all of these opto vs. ophtho threads (and seeing the $96K starting salaries), I can't say it's very desirable either. To each his own.

In regards to financial compensation, ophthalmology is still one of the higher paid medical specialties. Low starting salaries will be seen for all specialties in larger cities. Physicians who work in less saturated areas will find higher starting salaries. I suspect the $96K/year starting salary is either an academic job, military position, or highly saturated area.

The average starting salary for ophthalmology is $120-150K/year according to salary surveys and the experiences of recent graduates from Iowa.

 

[Mirror Form]

Dear Doctors and "Doctors-to-be":
FSeriously folks, I don't think thare are that many optometrists who will want to do this.

I doubt that, I know a couple optometry students, both of which have been active lobbying for surgical rights. As long as you can make a lot more money doing surgery, there will be PLENTY of optoms wanting to do it. Not to say optoms are especially greedy or anything, you could probably say the same about most professions.

 

[Richard_Hom]

I doubt that, I know a couple optometry students, both of which have been active lobbying for surgical rights. As long as you can make a lot more money doing surgery, there will be PLENTY of optoms wanting to do it. Not to say optoms are especially greedy or anything, you could probably say the same about most professions.

Dear Sledge 2005,
Despite the initial enthusiasm that students may have, I still doubt that there will be substantive numbers.

First, the initial capital investment or venue will be quite high which would be outside the capabilities of most students for at least 5-10 years after they graduate.

Second, there is still much more money to be made in prescribing and selling spectacles and fitting contact lenses.

Third, most optometrists who would do this would most likely do it in conjunction with other ophthalmologic or physician oriented environments, if it is done at all. Most optometrists just don't see those type of patients.

If it does happen, then physician managers will see that an optometrists doing "minor procedures" might make more economic sense that having an ophthalmologist do them.

Again, I think any trepidation that one feels about the future of ophthalmology should know t hat it will be secure from whatever another profession can and would do.

 

[modelcitizen]

I suspect the $96K/year starting salary is either an academic job, military position, or highly saturated area.

What do these choices leave open? Private practice in Tulsa, OK? 😱

 

[Andrew_Doan]

There are many towns with 100,000-250,000 population needing ophthalmologists. 😉

You can live 2-3 hours from a large city and live in a nice town to raise a family. If you want to live in New York or Chicago, then suck it up and take the lower starting salary. These difficult financial choices are true for all medical specialties.

 

[JZ2020]

The OK law is not deterring me from my decision to go into ophthalmology. The truth is that "turf wars" are commonplace in nearly all of the medical fields. General Surgeons compete with ENT's and gastroenterologists, cardiologists and vascular surgeons are taking over components of radiology, and primary care internists can compete with some of the medical subspecialists.
Ophtho has the distinct advantage that our main threat of turf-invasion comes from non-MD's. (I highly doubt that general surgeons dream of hauling out their laparoscopes to do eye surgery!) You can make the argument that ophthalmology is the best medical field in this regard.

 

[OneStrongBro]

What are some saturated areas and some unsaturated areas?

In regards to financial compensation, ophthalmology is still one of the higher paid medical specialties. Low starting salaries will be seen for all specialties in larger cities. Physicians who work in less saturated areas will find higher starting salaries. I suspect the $96K/year starting salary is either an academic job, military position, or highly saturated area.

The average starting salary for ophthalmology is $120-150K/year according to salary surveys and the experiences of recent graduates from Iowa.

 

[OneStrongBro]

So you are saying that major cities pay less. Doesn't this seem like a paradox? If this is true, why is that? Do we just blame the ole supply demand theory from econ?

There are many towns with 100,000-250,000 population needing ophthalmologists. 😉

You can live 2-3 hours from a large city and live in a nice town to raise a family. If you want to live in New York or Chicago, then suck it up and take the lower starting salary. These difficult financial choices are true for all medical specialties.

 

[mdkurt]

That's it. If the supply of fresh ophthalmologists exceeds the jobs available in an area, the starting salaries go down. This is true for areas like Seattle, Portland, San Francisco, Boston, etc. It's particularly true for cities with a large number of graduating ophthalmologists every year, like Philly and Chicago. Just remember that there's more to a contract than starting salary. Also remember that if you speak Spanish fluently, the above guidelines probably don't apply.

 

[OneStrongBro]

ARe you implying that speaking spanish will increase your salary by a sizeable amount?

 

[Richard_Hom]

ARe you implying that speaking spanish will increase your salary by a sizeable amount?

I believe that having Spanish fluency will definitely be an asset but may not necessarily be a guarantee of a job or higher salary. I do believe that the Hispanic community is "under served" and unfortunately has not been seen as fertile ground for economic success. Traditionally, the bulk of Spanish speaking patients are medically indigent and require social legislation to assist in their access to healthcare.

However, my generalization only holds true for the San Francisco Bay Area.

I run across Spanish speaking Latino and Latina ophthalmologists. Their success is getting a balance of patients rather than a preponderence of one over another. One well ophthalmologist, Jorge Alvarado, MD of UCSF and Gary Aguilar, MD come to mind immediately.

Richard

 

[Tony.]

The average starting salary for ophthalmology is $120-150K/year according to salary surveys and the experiences of recent graduates from Iowa.

i've worked for an OPTOMETRIST that earns WELL over $150K/yr .
I hope that fact doesnt frustrate OMD's.....

 

[Andrew_Doan]

i've worked for an OPTOMETRIST that earns WELL over $150K/yr .
I hope that fact doesnt frustrate OMD's.....

Why should it?

I doubt starting salaries for ODs are above $120K/year. The average OD makes $80-90K/year. Also, I don't care if ODs are making money. Both fields make comfortable salaries and are rewarding careers.

$120-150K/year is a starting salary for OMDs. After 3 years, the average OMD will make $220-240k/year average. I know many general ophthalmologists who make more than $400k/year. In fact, there are no salary caps for ophthalmologists. There is an ophthalmologist who works in FL, and he works over 80 hours a week. He makes over $1.5 million a year.

I'm not in it for the money, but if ophthalmologists want to make money, then there are numerous opportunities to do so.

 

[exmike]

i've worked for an OPTOMETRIST that earns WELL over $150K/yr .
I hope that fact doesnt frustrate OMD's.....

here, have a cookie.

 

[mdkurt]

ARe you implying that speaking spanish will increase your salary by a sizeable amount?

No, but it will increase the size of your practice. There are underserved populations in every big (and not so big) city that would greatly prefer speaking to people that speak their language. This applies if your language is russian, spanish, chinese, etc.

 

[Mirror Form]

All you venture or wish to enter ophthalmology should do so without trepidation because five years from now, I don't think anything that optometry will get to do will even make a dent in what ophthalmology will do.

I completely agree with you about five years from now. However, medical school is a long road. If I ever start out in private practice, it won't be for another 10 or more years (in five years, I'll just be finishing my initial ophthalmology residency, then up to two more in fellowship, then I'll spend at least four more years but probably at least six or more, in the military). It's kind of scary to wonder what the job market will be like in 15 - 20 years with optometrists lobbying for so many surgical rights, especially considering that ophthalmologists are already over saturated in many areas.

 

[mdkurt]

I completely agree with you about five years from now. However, medical school is a long road. If I ever start out in private practice, it won't be for another 10 or more years (in five years, I'll just be finishing my initial ophthalmology residency, then up to two more in fellowship, then I'll spend at least four more years but probably at least six or more, in the military). It's kind of scary to wonder what the job market will be like in 15 - 20 years with optometrists lobbying for so many surgical rights, especially considering that ophthalmologists are already over saturated in many areas.

Just remember, they didn't call it the baby boom for nothing. There will be a lot of old people clogging the medical system in this country over the next 20-30 years. Despite the press it has been getting lately, optometric surgery is not a real possibility.

 

[Richard_Hom]

"... It's kind of scary to wonder what the job market will be like in 15 - 20 years with optometrists lobbying for so many surgical rights, especially considering that ophthalmologists are already over saturated in many areas.

Dear Sledge2005,

Seeing the landscape from my view, I still don't think you have anything to "fear" from optometric encroachment (if it ever happens). The two disciplines are sufficiently different disciplines and focus on separate issues that happen to involve a common ground called "the eye".

Despite "the press", optometrists in general probably know that the bulk of the income will come from the sale of optical goods and materials and that the use of any "medical" skills is meant to complement these sales. If there is an analogy, ophthalmologists, I believe, see a lot of patients and do general examinations to complement medical and surgical care.

For an optometrist, a "normal" patient needing glasses is what they want to see. For an ophthalmologist, its a patient that can be enlisted to cosmetic refractive surgery or someone who has a chronic or acute medical problem that can be managed by medicine and surgery.

I really think that ophthalmologists may like the money from glasses, but if you were to take them completely out of the medical surgical environment, they wouldn't necessarily be excited in a "glasses-only" environment.

Likewise, an optometrist cannot make a sufficient return on investment on their equipment or their office if they solely concentrated on "medical" problems.

Sorry, for the long post, but I think there may not be as much overlap as most people think or what us to think.

Regards,
Richard_Hom