Anyone score way below what you expected?

[papilloma]

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I was doing well in most of my exams (slightly above average) in first 2 yrs of basic sci at a pretty competitive med school, but got my step1 recently and it was 194, way below what I expected. This can't be attributed to bad test taking skills because I was doing well in my exam, and did above 30 on MCAT while in undergrad. Not only was I doing above average in classes, but studied ~2 months, almost 12 hrs a day for this test. I expected at least the national average (217) or in that area.

Has anyone had this experience? How did you deal and cope with it? Is it possible NBME made a mistake (any way to contact them for a regrade)?

 

[kinetic]

How did you deal and cope with it? Is it possible NBME made a mistake (any way to contact them for a regrade)?

It's possible, but fairly unlikely that they made a mistake. In other words, it is in the realm of human possibility, but the chances are like winning the Powerball.

As for dealing with it, put things in perspective. You're placing things in the context of this forum; SDN is a great place to chat and get advice, but it's a terrible place to get an idea of what is normal. Everyone is running around going, "I SUCK! I ONLY GOT A 270/99!!!! WHAT AM I GONNA DO??" Or "with my 300/100, Nobel Prize, and father who founded a medical school, am I going to be forced into Family Practice???" And if you read the posts, you'd think even getting "the mean" is like being caught in bed with a transvestite prostitute (don't ask me what scoring below the mean is like ...I'm already on probation).

Point being: people FAIL the USMLEs, so it's not like you're dirt. Passing means that you have sufficient competence in the areas tested, as judged against all medical students. So it's not like you're mentally ******ed or anything. Second of all, a LOT of people score below the mean (by definition), so it's not the end of the world. People make it seem like TWO people score below the mean ...you and some guy who was in a car accident with head trauma the night before.

So just calm down, put things in perspective, and enjoy the fact that you never have to take that motherf**king test again. 👍

 

[mjl1717]

Oh Kinetic-YOu have a funny, level or balanced and refreshing way with words and (some are kind of flipped out)
But on the serious side for Papilloma I went to Philly a couple of weeks ago and they want $55.00 for a "by hand" score recheck. {But it doesnt sound like they often if at all change scores} I havent recieved a response yet and Im currently waiting for the recheck. Id say be happy you passed and look to knock out step2!!

 

[papilloma]

mj, I'd greatly appreciate that you inform me if your score changes with this by hand recheck. Please PM me. Thank you.

Kinetic, I understand what you're saying. But I went to a competitive med school, performed around average, and studied hard and long for step1. I should've at least gotten around national average on the boards based on this, so my actual score was so disappointing... It also stinks that I studied so hard and knew my stuff, and have to do it ALL over again with step2 with all this added stress.

Oh Kinetic-YOu have a funny, level or balanced and refreshing way with words and (some are kind of flipped out)
But on the serious side for Papilloma I went to Philly a couple of weeks ago and they want $55.00 for a "by hand" score recheck. {But it doesnt sound like they often if at all change scores} I havent recieved a response yet and Im currently waiting for the recheck. Id say be happy you passed and look to knock out step2!!

 

[binswanger]

Same sort of thing happenend to me on Step I. After the shock of the low score wore off, I decided to make up for things on Step II. I decided to take it early so residencies could see a better score (hopefully)....So I studied a little bit harder and ended up raising my score about 30 points on Step II. Doesn't it just bring a tear to your eye to hear such a good story.........So go get 'em on Step II, tiger.

 

[kinetic]

...hard and long ...

Tee hee hee! 😉

 

[kinetic]

Kinetic, I understand what you're saying. But I went to a competitive med school, performed around average, and studied hard and long for step1. I should've at least gotten around national average on the boards based on this, so my actual score was so disappointing...

I understand what you're saying. Like, for example, let's say you are at Johns Hopkins (just for sterotyping) ...I can understand where you would say, "if I can perform OK here, I MUST be guaranteed at least the mean." Unfortunately, the testing at your medical school is not necessarily reflective of the USMLE because the one is NOT standardized while the other IS. The USMLE is also notorious for ******ed minutae. I know a lot of people (including myself) who staggered out of those things saying, "what the f**k was that all about?" Then it turns into a souped-up version of 'Jeopardy.' Some people, regardless of grades, can remember the trivial minutae (oh, yeah, I remember this disease that occurs in Scandinavian twins between the age of 10 and 12!). Other people, even if they perform well, don't. That's just life, unfortunately. Two years from now, you won't know or care about 90% of the stuff on the USMLEs.

 

[papilloma]

I might be confused, but don't most programs use Step1, not Step2, for cutoffs? Also, don't programs emphasize your performance on Step1, since it is the easiest way to compare across all applicants? Why is everyone saying, "no worries, just do well on step2 and you'll be fine," as if Step2 is as important as Step1?

Btw, I studied long and hard and wet (hot summer).

Tee hee hee! 😉

 

[PACtoDOC]

I almost felt a bit of sympathy until I saw who the OP was on this thread. I seem to recall Papilloma spouting off at the f-in mouth months back at anything that was seemingly below him...PA's, NP's, etc.. If you don't recall, take a look at his old threads and see for yourself.

Well Pappy, what goes around comes around, and my take on it is that you should have spent more time minding your own business and profession than everyone elses. Oh, and one final point...this PA whipped your butt on the exam by close to 40 points.

Good luck with the recount though....I suggest you give Al Gore a call to get some pointers. What goes around comes around in all aspects of life big boy. Enjoy scrambling next year!

 

[kinetic]

Oh, and one final point...this PA whipped your butt on the exam by close to 40 points.

What exactly does that prove? Think a little harder, if you're so smart.

 

[DireWolf]

I might be confused, but don't most programs use Step1, not Step2, for cutoffs? Also, don't programs emphasize your performance on Step1, since it is the easiest way to compare across all applicants? Why is everyone saying, "no worries, just do well on step2 and you'll be fine," as if Step2 is as important as Step1?

Btw, I studied long and hard and wet (hot summer).

In talking with an EM PD a couple years ago, he said that a good Step 2 will be looked upon more highly than a good Step 1 score. He said Step 2 is more clinically oriented, so it offers a better judgment on a student's clinical knowledge. He said the reason that many students consider Step 1 more important is that not everyone takes Step 2 in time, but everyone has to submit their Step 1 score to ERAS. However, those who do decide to take Step 2 early and do well will make most interview cutoffs and be compared favorably to those who only took Step 1. Kind of complicated, but this is paraphrasing his response. In summary, he basically said Step 2 >= Step 1 if you decide to take it early and submit.

However, if you score well on Step 1 it would probably be wise to delay taking step 2 until after submitting ERAS. Unless you are very confident that you can do equal or better on Step 2.

Maybe someone can start a thread and gauge the opinions of various residents/attendings.

 

[kinetic]

I might be confused, but don't most programs use Step1, not Step2, for cutoffs? Also, don't programs emphasize your performance on Step1, since it is the easiest way to compare across all applicants? Why is everyone saying, "no worries, just do well on step2 and you'll be fine," as if Step2 is as important as Step1?

Btw, I studied long and hard and wet (hot summer).

Cutoffs are real, but it's not as cut-and-dried. It's more like programs invite all the high-scoring applicants and then work their way down. They have to interview a LOT of people to fill slots (even the elite residencies). It's not like everyone at Mass General is in the top 1% of the country.

Also, consider what you goal is. Yes, it's always great to have that diploma saying "Harvard" on your wall, but think long-term. If you want to do research, then your research background will be more important than your scores (letters are key here). If you don't, then being at the "top 5" school is usually, in my opinion, just a waste of time; usually they are top 5 because of their research orientation, but it's not like they know some secret to treating diabetes that the rest of the world doesn't. I rotated with a GP Med/Peds physician who had gone to a great medical school and done residency at Mass General and was practicing in a small Hicksville city with a population of like 30,000. I was like, "hey, way to flush your money down the toilet!"

But that's just my take on things.

 

[PACtoDOC]

Sorry Kinetic, I meant nothing more than to get under the skin of my old buddy Papilloma who had nothing but negative comments to make toward so many of us months back. He talked down to PA's, and he talked down to everyone. And please read all of my recent posts discussing board scores. I have never put anyone down for a poor score. That was until Pappy came along, and all those bad memories of his condescening attitude came to a head!!! And if I must answer your question, here goes. A 40 point difference on step one proves that I was busy studying while Pappy was worried too much about PA's going back to medical school...and at that DO school. Seems everyone is under old Pappy until the scores come home to roost!! Cockadoodledoo Pappy.

 

[nuprin]

I'll just say that i believe we have to watch out about violating the TOS of using this board especially in regards to "calling out" other members. Below find an excerpt from the usage policy accessible here, emphasis mine:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_sdn_tos

The Student Doctor Network members are not permitted to harass or "flame" other members. Please do not post or transmit any unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, profane, hateful, racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable material of any kind, including, but not limited to, any material which encourages conduct that would constitute a criminal offense, violate the rights of others, or otherwise violate any applicable local, state, national or international law. Please note that this also includes the posting of taunts on a forum solely for the purpose of deriding that forum's topic and/or members.

 

[kinetic]

Your mom wears combat boots.

 

[PACtoDOC]

The undertone was basically saying, "Hey, study more, quit crying over spilt milk, and what goes around comes around". So be it, this is my last post on this issue. But as I recall, Pappy never got reprimanded under the TOS when he was calling all of us out back in the day. I really do wish him the best in the scramble.

 

[kinetic]

I really do wish him the best in the scramble.

😴

 

[PACtoDOC]

Holy crap Kinetic, how did you find the time to post 4000 plus posts in less than 5 months? That is freaking amazing!

 

[papilloma]

Ok, you said that that was your last post on this issue, so stop posting. Can't be a man of your word?

First, I was disagreeing with PAs who said they knew everything and more than MDs, at the same time talking down to nurses. Second, I did well my 2 yrs in all classes and will continue to do well. One test on one bad day does not prove anything. Third, no one is looking for sympathy, but advice. Finally, this post helps me and others who share this same problem. So if you don't have anything constructive to contribute, I suggest you leave this thread alone. If you posted, "My brother just died," I wouldn't respond, "What goes around comes around." The measurement of a doctor is both of knowledge and heart. Let everyone with this problem benefit from personal advice in this post and don't destroy it with all your flaming and hatred.

Holy crap Kinetic, how did you find the time to post 4000 plus posts in less than 5 months? That is freaking amazing!

 

[PACtoDOC]

Okay Pappy.

In all sincerity, here is what I recommend (to get back to the topic).

1) Study hard
2) Study harder
3) Get plenty of sleep
4) Spend less time doing extracurricular activities
5) Spend less time worrying about other people's professions as you once told me
6) Stop making excuses and accept that the NBME makes few if any mistakes
7) Spend more time studying than asking advice on what to study

Everyone knows what you have to study for step one, and yes, even many of us DO students. May I suggest the "official DO score thread"? There are incredible scores from DO students there, and if you can stomach receiving advice from them, then it might be worth checking into. Also check with BigFrank about tutoring, as he seems to have plenty of points to spare. That might be your best option actually...hire a personal tutor.

But in truth Pappy, what were you looking for here? Its not like you can retake the exam, and did you seriously think that you would waltz in here after a 3 month hiatus from stomping on people and we would all forget how you treated us? I truly do wish you the best though....best something...not sure what though.

 

[papilloma]

You need to stop harassing me. And you are confused. 1) I never made any comment about DOs ever. 2) I am not asking advice on how to retake step1, but how to deal with an inconsistent low step1 score. 3) You have tendencies to type rude comments, and expect that I and everyone else to respond politely. Please stop harassing me with non-constructive, insensitive posts. I could be an MD/PhD student who has/will have 20 publications, strong connections, junior AOA, excellent LORs and dean's letter, one bad test taking day, and going into primary care without any worry to scramble.

If you continue to posts comments like these, I will report to the moderators. You are destroying and diluting this post with useless flaming.

Okay Pappy.

In all sincerity, here is what I recommend (to get back to the topic).

1) Study hard
2) Study harder
3) Get plenty of sleep
4) Spend less time doing extracurricular activities
5) Spend less time worrying about other people's professions as you once told me
6) Stop making excuses and accept that the NBME makes few if any mistakes
7) Spend more time studying than asking advice on what to study

Everyone knows what you have to study for step one, and yes, even many of us DO students. May I suggest the "official DO score thread"? There are incredible scores from DO students there, and if you can stomach receiving advice from them, then it might be worth checking into. Also check with BigFrank about tutoring, as he seems to have plenty of points to spare. That might be your best option actually...hire a personal tutor.

But in truth Pappy, what were you looking for here? Its not like you can retake the exam, and did you seriously think that you would waltz in here after a 3 month hiatus from stomping on people and we would all forget how you treated us? I truly do wish you the best though....best something...not sure what though.

 

[PACtoDOC]

I have said my peace Papilloma. I'll try and take your advice, which happens to be the same advice we gave you when you were bashing us constantly last year. Le Chatlier principle is alive and well. Best of luck my friend.

 

[shorrin]

ok, sorry to butt in the conversation (or whatever it is) but studying hard doesn't equal doing well on step 1. Lots of people study hard for the test and if studying harder was equal to a good score then that's what everyone would do.

It's not that simple.

There are many factors that'll kill your perfomance even in the face of having memorized FA 6 times such as anxiety, feeling unwell and also having rudely miscalculated that biochem is more significant than it actually is and not studying enough pathophys.

All in all studying hard not = to good board score.

 

[iirish]

I have said my peace Papilloma. I'll try and take your advice, which happens to be the same advice we gave you when you were bashing us constantly last year. Le Chatlier principle is alive and well. Best of luck my friend.

Matt,

Be nice! Pappy needs to lick his wounds and move on.

Pappy,

i have read your threads, and pactodoc does have a point albeit, harsh at times. he defends his position and profession with vigor, and rightfully so. good luck.

 

[sherpagyrl]

My school spends A LOT of time testing us using the NBME shelf exams for each subject. It certainly shed light on how poorly most course exams are written, since they are often written for grad students not med students. That said, they predicted pretty well how people performed on Step 1, especially the Path shelf. So lots of classmates haven't been surprised by their scores.

I would be curious to know if Papilloma's school forced him through shelf after horrible shelf (and get tested on stuff that wasn't taught), or if these were limited to those students at the passing line.

 

[Axon]

wow, this thread sounds more like lawyers than compassionate doctors.

Pappy: chill out.

PACtoDOC: chill out.

We all must realize that just because someone, a patient for instance, offends us, it does not give us the reason or right to spout back with names and condescending remarks. I think that each person here has made there point, and we all see that each has there side here. Let's let this dog lie.

We see everyone's point, and there is no point in drawing it out.

Axon

 

[bigfrank]

PACtoDOC has every right to defend himself. How sweet is it that things turned out as they did!

Matt, you are the man, congrats on your score, and I look forward to watching your many accomplishments accumulate.

Before ANYONE criticizes PACtoDOC (Matt), please read papilloma's ridiculous posts. Then you can be the judge.

Best,

 

[PACtoDOC]

Thanks for getting my back BF. I am giving Pappy a clean slate now and am willing to let by gones be by gones. You are still the man though BF!! 😀

 

[azzarah]

Back to the original topic....
Papilloma, do you guys get essay tests at your school or multiple choice? That might have something to do with it. Good luck with everything though.

 

[Legion560]

When I first got my score back I was like "WTF!" What god did I offend to get shafted like this! But looking back on it, it seems to make sense. Im not trying to overanalyze or blindly justify, but I think I got what I deserved. I did well first year, didnt honor anything second year (second year being the money year as far as step 1 goes). I averaged mid to low 80s second year, got 68% cumulative on Qbank. So my score of 234/95 doesnt seem unreasonable for my abilities once I sat down and took a long hard look at myself. I put in 5.5 weeks at 8-10 hours per day (saturdays off). Now, some people can work miracles with 5.5 weeks/8 hours per day. Im not one of them. I remember busting ass for the MCAT and getting a 31,which at the time, I didnt feel was representative of what I put in. Ive come to the conclusion that I am an average test taker despite all the hours I out in. I know this sounds like a cop out, but after all the standardized exams Ive taken and the different ways Ive switched up my study habits (and no, Im not a slacker), it seems like hitting the magic numbers are pretty difficult for me on exams. I dont know how else to explain it. Sorry you didnt get what you were hoping, but realize that some people are born to rock exams, some people will always be average, and some people plain suck at exams despite how hard they study.

Legion.

 

[azzarah]

Seriously, I think standardized exams are so random...I studied my a$$ off for the SATs and got a 1290. I studied much less for the MCAT and got a 35. Who knows how step 1 will turn out. Try to do your best on Step 2 and don't let thinking that you are not a good test-taker psych you out for step 2.

 

[maugham]

Unreasonable expectations has a lot to do with this as well. To be disappointed with a 234 seems a little self-punishing to me. That's an excellent score, better than nearly 80% of all test takers(who are themselves often hard-driving type A students). The average on this damn thing keeps going up and up because what's considered a good score among students keeps creeping higher. The same is true of other standardized tests as well. It may be naive to say it, but I think it's sad that so many medical students feel the need to be slaves to Step I in order to secure a good future. Yes, I know some residencies like ortho and derm and ENT have cutoffs, but really most don't and the USMLE was never intended to create a heirachy among medical students. I think this push to "crush the board" may be getting a little out of hand. Hats off to those who did well, but keep in mind that not everyone sees an extraordiary perfomance on this exam as an essential part of a solid medical education.