Anyone that has attended the Drexel IMS program

[deosaa7]

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I have a few questions. I have been accepted into the program and I will be attending. My MCAT is decent (32) but my GPA is abysmal (3.17) with Cs in all my entry level sciences classes. I picked myself up later on and made As on my more difficult physics and chemistry classes so I think thats how I made it into the program and also having a good MCAT and research portfolio didn't hurt.

So I have this IMS program infront of me for a year and I definitely think it's the right program for me given my awful GPA and I want to do well in it. I'm just not sure what to expect so I have a few questions:

1. What kind of work would require getting a 3.50 minimum GPA in the program? I am asking because the grading platform is that a B is given to those who can match the average grade of the med school, and an A is a standard deviation above. So it appears to me that you have to be better then 70% of actual medical college students to get an A, is that accurate?

2. What is your average day in the program like?

3. Did you find the simculcasting of lectures to be a help or hinderance in terms of understanding material and such? Did you usually skip class?

4. How many signed up for the extra classes?

5. What is the grading like?

If anyone who has been through the program and can shed some light on any of these questions, I would very much appreciate it. I did find a few threads form search that dealt with this but they were from 2004 (7 years old) so I am hoping for a fresher perspective..

thanks,
RK

 

[DeucesHigh3]

I have a few questions. I have been accepted into the program and I will be attending. My MCAT is decent (32) but my GPA is abysmal (3.17) with Cs in all my entry level sciences classes. I picked myself up later on and made As on my more difficult physics and chemistry classes so I think thats how I made it into the program and also having a good MCAT and research portfolio didn't hurt.

So I have this IMS program infront of me for a year and I definitely think it's the right program for me given my awful GPA and I want to do well in it. I'm just not sure what to expect so I have a few questions:

1. What kind of work would require getting a 3.50 minimum GPA in the program? I am asking because the grading platform is that a B is given to those who can match the average grade of the med school, and an A is a standard deviation above. So it appears to me that you have to be better then 70% of actual medical college students to get an A, is that accurate?

Yeah, it's true that you have to beat most of the med students to get an A in any given class. The good news is that they have more classes to worry about and less time to devote to studying, so all else being equal it should be easier for an IMS student to get a given score. Also, since they don't have as much to prove (b/c grades in the pre-clinical years don't mean much), there's less pressure for them to go all-out in every class. That said, the med student average on most tests and quizzes was usually near (and generally higher than, by a few percent) the IMS average. The bad news is that the medical Honors grade encompasses both the A and the A- grades in IMS, so a gunner med student can get top marks with around (for example) a 90% but that would only be an A- for IMS -- you have to strive for a few more percentage points to get the A. Also, the B+ range (which would be High Satisfactory for the med students) was typically very small, only 1-2%.

Though the course load is definitely worse than undergrad, it's not terrible. If you pre-read all of the lecture notes, go to class (or watch at home), and spend maybe an hour a day reviewing things, that's more than enough to keep up. I spent my train rides (~40min each way) doing my prereading and reviewing, so I rarely had to waste time reading at home. The most important thing is just making sure that EVERY bit of the module guide/syllabus gets read at least 2-3 times before your real studying starts before an exam, so that the concepts can start to gel. As for the “real” studying (making yourself a high-yield study guide, doing practice questions & back-exams, and doing last-minute memorization), I generally started looking at things about 1 day before quizzes, and 2.5 days before exams -- they say you should study for quizzes like they are exams, and study for exams like they're finals, which seemed pretty accurate to me relative to undergrad.

There are a lot of tests and exams though, so you never really get a long stretch where you can blow things off for a while. A 3.5 is very achievable, it's the 3.9-4.0 range that takes a pretty large amount of studying to make sure you get every possible point. I was happy with the amount of work I did, and it netted me ~3.8 (which would have been a 3.96 but for having the flu during the last biochem exam of the fall semester... 7.5 credits has a pretty big influence on your GPA). There were definitely people who crashed and burned though, so you gotta take it seriously.

2. What is your average day in the program like?

There's really no "average" day; the overall class load varies by module, and every day is different. There are random stretches of days when you have basically nothing, and there are also days with class from 8am-5pm. You always get a lunch hour though!

3. Did you find the simculcasting of lectures to be a help or hinderance in terms of understanding material and such? Did you usually skip class?

The simulcasting is definitely a net positive in my experience: all of the benefits of going to class live (if you have a burning question, you can talk to Queen Lane on the microphone), but you can goof off if it's a useless lecture since they can't see you.

It's completely feasible (even preferable, for many people) to just skip class though, because you can skim through boring/low-yield stuff at 1.5x or 2x speed on the computer -- I had actually planned to that, if for no reason but to save on train fare. As it turned out though, I probably attended at least 85% of the lectures at Hahnemann just because I liked the separation of doing my school work downtown and then being completely off the clock at home. Plus, sitting on the train every day gave me some devoted time to look over the notes.

Really it's only an issue of time management and self discipline. Going to class in person forces you to keep up, and lets you avoid the temptation of surfing or playing games while "watching" the lecture on the computer. Even when I did use the recordings to watch lectures after the fact (as I did most Mondays because I missed class to volunteer), I'd usually do it on campus because there are tons of computers and everyone is in a quiet/studious mindset.

4. How many signed up for the extra classes?

If you mean Nutrition and Immunology, they're not really "extra" so much as they are optionally drop-able -- everyone starts out registered for them. The test administrations for those seemed only a bit smaller than for the mandatory classes, so it seemed like most people stuck with it.

5. What is the grading like?

It depends on the class. Some have absolute cut-offs for A, A-, etc., but others look at all of the scores before making the grade distributions. The syllabus for each class will spell out how the grading is done.

If anyone who has been through the program and can shed some light on any of these questions, I would very much appreciate it. I did find a few threads form search that dealt with this but they were from 2004 (7 years old) so I am hoping for a fresher perspective..

thanks,
RK

There are actually a fair number of recent (3-4 years old) reviews floating around that are accurate, including some in the "Rate your SMP & Postbac" sticky. Some info from one of my classmates this past year: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=10561261&postcount=195 and http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showpost.php?p=10823455&postcount=31.

 

[farmalot]

Congratulations on doing so well in the program!

1) I was wondering how my MCAT score might affect my chances in getting into DUCOM, and if this means I need a near 4.0 in the program to be even seriously considered.

2) How are the interviews set up? Would I need to fill out a form through the IMS or just apply through AMCAS.

Thank you very much for any information thrown my way!

 

[chillin4lyfe]

posted this on another thread, but figured i'd put it here too:

I just wanted to write some background information on pros and cons of this program. I was a recent graduate of the IMS program within the last 3 years, successfully completing it with over a 3.8 gpa. There are some great things about this program, but then there are some not so great things about this program, and I just wanted to write a full review of it. Just to be very clear, these are my opinions based on my observations.

Let's start with the pros:
The program itself is a great idea. You get to take medical school classes, albeit through a projector, but you ARE indeed learning the material before you get into medical school, so by the time you go, you should be even better the second time around. Some may say this is a con, because it's a waste of tuition money to learn things twice, but I would say it's better to learn something twice, and knock it out of the park the second time when it really matters.

You're also being compared to Drexel's own medical school students. The way the grading scheme works is that if you get the median medical school score, you score a B in IMS. The A range is basically honors level if you were at Drexel med. In other words, if you get a straight 3.0 across the board, you were the average medical school at Drexel. Obviously you want to do better than that though, because they're taking a couple classes that you're not, such as anatomy (a real tough one) and genetics. But the great thing is that in theory, if you do extremely well in this program, you can say that you basically would be one of the top medical students at Drexel.

Lastly, some of the people are just phenomenal. Christy Streeper is one of the most dedicated people I know, and she puts a lot of effort into trying to get you in the best position to apply for medical school. I highly suggest getting to know her. Plus she's always got candy in her office that you're free to take.


And to the cons:
While the ideas are great, for some reason the actual results in my opinion are not that good. The people from my year who got interviews and acceptances at other schools besides Drexel are those who did well in the program, but ALSO came in with a pretty decent GPA already (like 3.6, 3.7ish). I had a decent GPA from an Ivy league school, I did not receive that many interviews despite doing phenomenally in the program. At Drexel, I was waitlisted with a >3.8 gpa, as was the valedictorian of our class. Eventually I received a rejection and had to reapply the next year, where I was not even extended an interview, perhaps because I did not do the MMS program. But I think it speaks volumes about a school if you can excel in a program supposedly built to funnel great students into the med school, and then not even be considered after you outperform the med school's own students. I believe many of my classmates feel the same way after experiencing the same thing. Now I am in medical school, but I believe it is more due to my efforts before and after the IMS program than anything else.

To summarize, I think the program itself is a great idea, and I think it could potentially bring a lot of great students into Drexel's medical school. It's a great program if you want to get a sense of what the medical school curriculum is like, and if you can perform well in medical school. It's also got some really friendly, helpful people. However, if you are only doing it because you think this will boost your chances at medical school by a significant amount, I would suggest a different program. Having applied three times, I saw very little change from my first application to my second application with 1 semester of grades, to my third application with a full year's grades, and most of the schools I interviewed at were more interested in the activity I did after IMS, and a bit dismissive of my performance in the program.


Other notes for people interested in the program:
It is not that difficult to get a 3.0 across the board. Yes it will be challenging material. Yes you will need to work hard. But if you sit down and seriously put in the effort, don't waste your time throughout the day, and keep in mind that this is a do-or-die situation (if you do well, you might get a shot at med school, if you do poorly it's basically a nail in the coffin) then you will succeed. As I said, I had above a 3.8 GPA, and I still did my fair share of partying and going out, albeit mostly after tests.
The average day in the program varies student to student. I tried to go to every class, but knowing myself, that always starts out great but then fades. This is the case with most people, I feel like. Classes are usually packed in the beginning of the program, and then becomes like 10 people sitting in a huge class at the end. The trick is, if you DO decide not to go to class, you HAVE to keep up with the lectures. I skipped most classes, but mostly because I just didn't feel like waking up and walking there. You can also watch the lectures at home at 1.5 or 2x speed. Much of the time I'd still wake up and watch the lectures the same day, or go to the library and do the work.

good luck everyone on the path to medical school! keep trying, you'll get there one day!

 

[common man]

thank you both for sharing your experiences. both reviews were objective, credible, and gave different views. i will have to talk to the folks in the ims office to get more info. i'm also surprised by how little discussion there is on drexel ims for this year on sdn. i guess the other programs like cincy and evms are even more popular.

 

[common man]

1. i hear that the typical averages for exams is mid 80s. that's a pretty high average. i am concerned that the grading in ims is such that a few points make the difference between an A and a B. to me, that becomes somewhat arbitrary. you can get a question wrong simply because you forgot that one detail out of a huge volume.

i had a class where it was very manageable to get a B+ but to get the A you had to work really really hard with diminishing returns. i don't like that. at my college, the average was a 61 on exams and if you got an 80 it was an A. i like having that much room for error to get the A and so it was low stress. i guess that's not the case here.

beating the med school average is no joke under any circumstances. that's like casually racing michael phelps. sure, phelps isn't competing in the olympics going for the gold, but it's still michael phelps. his casual effort will be better than the best effort of mortals.

can you please comment about the grading and diminishing returns?

2. how do the ims exams compare to mcat biology or am i talking apples and oranges?

3. is the ims program transparent in making available as many past exams as possible for all the classes? or does it help to know past students in the program?

4. why is this program not more successful given that you take 7 medical school classes (that's a lot) and they are very recognizable by title! one glance at the curriculum and anyone should respect the rigor of the program and respect the student who gets a 3.5+ gpa in the program. how can that fail to produce success? that's stunning.

 

[loltopsy]

I'm currently in IMS.


1) Med students take more classes. You are racing Michael Phelps who is already dead tired from previous races. Beyond that, if you want to be in med school, you better be on his level already. Otherwise, you won't get into ANY med school. Honestly, a lot of med students are already burnt out and don't give a **** about grades. This is true of most schools.

Classes are different. An A falls between 90-92%, and A- is between 88-91%. It's fair. A's are generally given to at least the top 10% or more if more people score high. Whatever the med school average on the exam is becomes the IMS's B.

2) MCAT bio and medical level biochem are two different things.

3) Only one class, microanatomy has past exams online. All the other classes have practice tests for every section of the class. You cannot have a 'hookup' for past exams because no one is allowed to keep their exams. If you want to go over exams, go to post-exam review sessions where they go through every question. Or, go to Martha's office and you can look at your scantron and any exam you just took with an answer key.

4) We take 7 med school classes (not all at the same time, very spread out) but actual med students take more. That's why we are expected to BEAT med school averages. In med school, we could expect our grades to go down because we are getting hammered with more work. I have a ~3.8 in IMS. Getting 3.0+ GPA isn't hard. The hard part is keeping up the grade and not screwing up 1 class as to miss the guaranteed interview. Also, the problem with all SMPs is that grades arn't released for the 1st semester until at least January. By then, most schools have filled up or are almost filling up their interview schedule. It severely limits the schools you can apply to. If you apply the following year, all your grades are available up front. Along with a new letter of recommendation from your adviser. You are much more likely to be accepted a year out of an SMP than actually in one.


There are generally about 140 in the IMS class. ~70 apply for med school that year. 40-50 will not make the 3.0 GPA with no B-'s while taking the full load of classwork (most the class gets at least a 3 GPA and drops at least onec lass). That leaves 20-30 roughly who get a guaranteed DUCOM interview. This year, the class was smaller, so only about ~15 made the guaranteed interview. Of those, the ones who don't get accepted usually fall into the following categories: terrible social skills, bad answer to their interview essay, or barely made a 3.0 GPA. The rest are offered acceptance. Most of the people who I talked to with guaranteed interviews at DUCOM already had acceptances or waitlists elsewhere.


IMS is fair. It's less difficult than med school, but that's made up for because applying to med school at the same time makes it much more stressful.


The people I see who do poor are generally the ones who just study to pass and not to do as well as they can. You have to put in a real effort for every exam if you want to get A's. It isn't easy, but it's certainly doable. The is a direct correlation between my effort in and grades out. No question.

 

[common man]

WOW! Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy courseload to answer my long post in such detail! I really appreciate these honest, detailed replies. Very helpful!

The is a direct correlation between my effort in and grades out. No question.

that's what i like to hear.

 

[common man]

bad answer to their interview essay

i'm unclear about this? what is the "interview essay"? is that the essays in my ims application or my secondary? or do they give you a special essay if you made the guaranteed interview? is this an extra avenue to ask for an admission to ducom (sort of like an early decision essay for colleges where you make your case why that particular school is your top choice and then they give you extra consideration).

 

[loltopsy]

Every person who interviews at DUCOM gets an addition essay to write prior to their actual interview. They give you about 30 minutes, and it's only a couple paragraphs tops. I think this is because the DUCOM secondary contains no essay. It's just personal info, pay, and submit.


This has nothing to do with IMS interviews. IMS interviews via phone only. It's very easy and laid back. No essays involved at all.

 

[common man]

thank you for your thorough reply! i appreciate it.

 

[cosho]

I really hope this isn't a stupid question, and I apologize if it is, but is this Drexel IMS the same things as the DPMS Program? I'm reading all of this about the IMS and it sounds a little different than what I thought the DPMS Program was.

Thanks!

 

[common man]

No they are different. DPMS is for Underrepresented minorities and socially disadvantaged people. DPM S has guaranteed acceptance if you get a 3.0 GPA. The IMS only has a guaranteed interview Only and is open for everyone not just URm or socially disadvantaged people.

 

[ireneeeeex3]

I'm currently in IMS.


1) Med students take more classes. You are racing Michael Phelps who is already dead tired from previous races. Beyond that, if you want to be in med school, you better be on his level already. Otherwise, you won't get into ANY med school. Honestly, a lot of med students are already burnt out and don't give a **** about grades. This is true of most schools.

Classes are different. An A falls between 90-92%, and A- is between 88-91%. It's fair. A's are generally given to at least the top 10% or more if more people score high. Whatever the med school average on the exam is becomes the IMS's B.

2) MCAT bio and medical level biochem are two different things.

3) Only one class, microanatomy has past exams online. All the other classes have practice tests for every section of the class. You cannot have a 'hookup' for past exams because no one is allowed to keep their exams. If you want to go over exams, go to post-exam review sessions where they go through every question. Or, go to Martha's office and you can look at your scantron and any exam you just took with an answer key.

4) We take 7 med school classes (not all at the same time, very spread out) but actual med students take more. That's why we are expected to BEAT med school averages. In med school, we could expect our grades to go down because we are getting hammered with more work. I have a ~3.8 in IMS. Getting 3.0+ GPA isn't hard. The hard part is keeping up the grade and not screwing up 1 class as to miss the guaranteed interview. Also, the problem with all SMPs is that grades arn't released for the 1st semester until at least January. By then, most schools have filled up or are almost filling up their interview schedule. It severely limits the schools you can apply to. If you apply the following year, all your grades are available up front. Along with a new letter of recommendation from your adviser. You are much more likely to be accepted a year out of an SMP than actually in one.


There are generally about 140 in the IMS class. ~70 apply for med school that year. 40-50 will not make the 3.0 GPA with no B-'s while taking the full load of classwork (most the class gets at least a 3 GPA and drops at least onec lass). That leaves 20-30 roughly who get a guaranteed DUCOM interview. This year, the class was smaller, so only about ~15 made the guaranteed interview. Of those, the ones who don't get accepted usually fall into the following categories: terrible social skills, bad answer to their interview essay, or barely made a 3.0 GPA. The rest are offered acceptance. Most of the people who I talked to with guaranteed interviews at DUCOM already had acceptances or waitlists elsewhere.


IMS is fair. It's less difficult than med school, but that's made up for because applying to med school at the same time makes it much more stressful.


The people I see who do poor are generally the ones who just study to pass and not to do as well as they can. You have to put in a real effort for every exam if you want to get A's. It isn't easy, but it's certainly doable. The is a direct correlation between my effort in and grades out. No question.

loltopsy you're awesome for answering all those questions I had running around in my mind all this time. Referring back to those that didn't get in after getting an interview, did you mean the students barely passed with the post-bacc gpa of 3.0 or their undergrad gpa? And also, are there any study habits you picked up taking and succeeding in these classes?

 

[loltopsy]

loltopsy you're awesome for answering all those questions I had running around in my mind all this time. Referring back to those that didn't get in after getting an interview, did you mean the students barely passed with the post-bacc gpa of 3.0 or their undergrad gpa? And also, is there any study habits you picked up taking and succeeding in these classes?

3.0 in post-bac GPA.

Do every possible online practice question and understand why the ones you got wrong were wrong. Go through each answer and know why each is wrong or right. Even if you ignore lectures, watch every review and integration lectures. They generally are good for at least a few questions the exam.

Schedule your studying so that you are 'finished' studying early. That way, you have the day prior to meet tutors, go through practice tests, read conference notes, re-review notes, and also relax. The day prior to exams is usually the day I relax the most. Overnighters are a bad idea. Get sleep.

Also, as you go through notes, make a list of every disease that is named regardless of how weird or irrelevant is may sound. Every one is fair game. Know the enzyme that's deficient, at the very minimum. Same thing is true for cytokines and hormones. Drugs are generally ignored, however (except in neuroscience).

If you do IMS, PM me in the fall, and I'll be more specific.

 

[loltopsy]

Oh, and the only textbook you should buy is the one for Medicine and Society (buy used). The rest are either unnecessary or the required readings are photocopied at put on Blackboard. Regardless, there's free copies in the library.



Unless you really like reading textbooks or just like stacking them on your shelf to look smart.

 

[ireneeeeex3]

Thanks! I found out that you can download most of those textbooks as PDFs anyway, but it makes it that much better that I have to worry about only one book.

 

[deleted404486]

Is IMS and DMPS not the same thing for drexel? From what I have read they are different programs?

 

[DeucesHigh3]

Is IMS and DMPS not the same thing for drexel? From what I have read they are different programs?

Yeah they're different, as mentioned in post #13. Pretty much the same classes, though admissions (to the program, and to DUCOM) are handled completely separately.