Anyone used to be pre-med?

[j306c954]

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I am just curious if any of you were previously pre-med, and then made the decision to pursue physical therapy instead and why.

🙂

 

[starrsgirl]

Yes, I was. I felt like I went to an uber competitive, weed out school that crushed my pre-med soul in the first 2 years. I lost my confidence and momentum. (I felt better about this after I read Malcolm Gladwell's book "David and Goliath"....he details this phenomenon at some schools). I really regret my decision to give up medicine. It's truly where my heart is. For me, the biggest draw of medicine is to be universally useful to a global population. I feel called to serve overseas, rural areas, or areas hit by disaster. When a disaster strikes, there's not much use for a PT in the aftermath. I just love the broad scope of emergency medicine and/or family practice.

But that said, as a non traditional, second/third career student, I realized I just couldn't 1)be out of the workforce long enough to go back to medical school and 2) put that kind of burden on my family no matter how much I wanted it. They need me to be present and available. It makes me sad that medical school route is such a beat down haze fest (in my opinion). PT school has been a much better balance. Aside from the first semester transition, school is very manageable. And my future job prospects look stable with a good family balance. I believe that movement is the key to health to PT very much aligns with my personal values and passions. I also love the continuing relationship with a PT patient that medical doctors often miss out on.

I hope you get a few more answers on this. I think I may be a minority amongst my classmates at least. I can't think of anyone who regrets not going medicine. My classmates chose PT as their #1 because it is where their heart and passion is above all else. They believe in the field and the value they bring to a patient's life (don't get me wrong, I believe in it too...I just can't say it's my first love).

 

[Azimuthal]

I was pre-health anything, but can relate to starrsgirl in terms of family influence on career choices. I'm more drawn to teaching than medicine, and will pursue a PhD later on in life. Who knows.

 

[otherwise]

I began as pre-med, and was until I actually started my application to med schools.

When I left my first career I thought of medicine as being the most challenging path and that, more than anything, was what I wanted. I craved the challenge that civilian life lacked. I always thought of PT as a fall-back, and nothing more. I did really well in my undergrad and finished in 3 years (would have been 2.5 but I added a business minor at the last minute). My school did not have a specific pre-med degree, so I chose kinesiology. I thought it would be more applicable to life and a little different then everyone else applying to med schools, which admission committees love. As a part of my degree I had to do an internship and just so happened to get one at a PT clinic, and really started to like PT. Even after I was done there I still considered myself to be pre-med, and signed up for the MCAT. I could tell my heart wasn't really into studying for it, but I thought it was just because it was boring material.

Then after I graduated I fell into a gap year job (never expected to graduate early) at a medical office. I was super excited and motivated because it was what I thought I wanted to do. It took 3 days before I realized medicine was not where I should be. I have always hated the pharmaceutical cycle and people complaining, "make me better." Since I was not interested in ER/Trauma, thats all medicine would be. If I specialize I see the same 5 things everyday that never change, if I go family medicine I get to deal with people whining about the sniffles... great.

But, what really changed me from the pre-med track was the AMCAS admissions essay. I don't remember the words buts it was something like, "why do you want to be a doctor." While trying to write that I had nothing to say and couldn't lie to myself anymore; then the PTCAS essay was almost fun to write.

I chose PT because I will get to actually see patients progress and succeed, instead of only seeing them when they are in pain. I will be working with patients that actually want to get better and are, usually, willing to work for it. The way I describe it to people is that MD's/DO's are like the salespeople, they tell patients what the need or want and then send them away; PT's are the mechanics they actually help the patients, provide the necessary tools, and ensure their success.

Just my views, if nothing makes sense its late and I may have been enjoying a few drinks earlier.

 

[68PGunner]

I began as pre-med, and was until I actually started my application to med schools.

When I left my first career I thought of medicine as being the most challenging path and that, more than anything, was what I wanted. I craved the challenge that civilian life lacked. I always thought of PT as a fall-back, and nothing more. I did really well in my undergrad and finished in 3 years (would have been 2.5 but I added a business minor at the last minute). My school did not have a specific pre-med degree, so I chose kinesiology. I thought it would be more applicable to life and a little different then everyone else applying to med schools, which admission committees love. As a part of my degree I had to do an internship and just so happened to get one at a PT clinic, and really started to like PT. Even after I was done there I still considered myself to be pre-med, and signed up for the MCAT. I could tell my heart wasn't really into studying for it, but I thought it was just because it was boring material.

Then after I graduated I fell into a gap year job (never expected to graduate early) at a medical office. I was super excited and motivated because it was what I thought I wanted to do. It took 3 days before I realized medicine was not where I should be. I have always hated the pharmaceutical cycle and people complaining, "make me better." Since I was not interested in ER/Trauma, thats all medicine would be. If I specialize I see the same 5 things everyday that never change, if I go family medicine I get to deal with people whining about the sniffles... great.

But, what really changed me from the pre-med track was the AMCAS admissions essay. I don't remember the words buts it was something like, "why do you want to be a doctor." While trying to write that I had nothing to say and couldn't lie to myself anymore; then the PTCAS essay was almost fun to write.

I chose PT because I will get to actually see patients progress and succeed, instead of only seeing them when they are in pain. I will be working with patients that actually want to get better and are, usually, willing to work for it. The way I describe it to people is that MD's/DO's are like the salespeople, they tell patients what the need or want and then send them away; PT's are the mechanics they actually help the patients, provide the necessary tools, and ensure their success.

Just my views, if nothing makes sense its late and I may have been enjoying a few drinks earlier.

You're wrong. You just didn't do enough research by not looking at various fields in medicine. If you're happy at where you are at, that's the most important thing. However, there's no reason to beat down medicine just to boost PT onto a pedestal.

 

[redrose424]

You're wrong. You just didn't do enough research by not looking at various fields in medicine. If you're happy at where you are at, that's the most important thing. However, there's no reason to beat down medicine just to boost PT onto a pedestal.

No one is "beating down medicine to boost PT onto a pedestal", someone asked a question, and someone else answered with their own experiences/viewpoints. What makes you so defensive, if (as you say), the most important thing is to be happy where you are at?

 

[68PGunner]

No one is "beating down medicine to boost PT onto a pedestal", someone asked a question, and someone else answered with their own experiences/viewpoints. What makes you so defensive, if (as you say), the most important thing is to be happy where you are at?

I'm not being defensive. The pros that he described exist in certain fields of medicine. So calling MD/DO salespeople isn't beating down medicine? His views are skewed. That's a fact as evident by his wordings.

He just didn't do his due diligence.

 

[Azimuthal]

I'm not being defensive. The pros that he described exist in certain fields of medicine. So calling MD/DO salespeople isn't beating down medicine? His views are skewed. That's a fact as evident by his wordings.

He just didn't do his due diligence.

It's his viewpoint, which is implied, just like "His views are skewed" are yours. There is no reason to be defensive.

 

[68PGunner]

It's his viewpoint, which is implied, just like "His views are skewed" are yours. There is no reason to be defensive.

My views are not skewed. If I want to present a skewed perspective, I would say that PT are just salespeople, while physicians look at the patient at a holistic perspective mentally, physically, and emotionally in order to treat the symptoms. But, I didn't.

The pros he described for PT can be found in family medicine. Yet, he didn't spend time shadowing the different fields of medicine. He generalizes medicine as only ER/trauma. The fact is that he didn't do his due diligence. PT is a great field. But, I certainly hope that providers don't bash one field for another in a professional setting when it's a team effort regarding patient care.

 

[Azimuthal]

My views are not skewed. If I want to present a skewed perspective, I would say that PT are just salespeople, while physicians look at the patient at a holistic perspective mentally, physically, and emotionally in order to treat the symptoms. But, I didn't.

The pros he described for PT can be found in family medicine. Yet, he didn't spend time shadowing the different fields of medicine. He generalizes medicine as only ER/trauma. The fact is that he didn't do his due diligence. PT is a great field. But, I certainly hope that providers don't bash one field for another in a professional setting when it's a team effort regarding patient care.

I did not see any bashing, it's his opinion. He clearly did not mean any malice or ill intent towards physicians. You're taking the internet too personally.

 

[redrose424]

My views are not skewed. If I want to present a skewed perspective, I would say that PT are just salespeople, while physicians look at the patient at a holistic perspective mentally, physically, and emotionally in order to treat the symptoms. But, I didn't.

The pros he described for PT can be found in family medicine. Yet, he didn't spend time shadowing the different fields of medicine. He generalizes medicine as only ER/trauma. The fact is that he didn't do his due diligence. PT is a great field. But, I certainly hope that providers don't bash one field for another in a professional setting when it's a team effort regarding patient care.

He specifically said the specialties of medicine he was referring, and explicitly stated his opinion on the matter. He gave reasoning behind his opinion and did so in a respectful way. You are defensive (and, by the way, I would argue that PTs VERY much look at the patient holistically).

 

[engmedpt]

5 things everyday that never change

That's very dependent on specialty.

go family medicine I get to deal with people whining about the sniffles

I'd say fam med is pretty solid and you're knocking that down with that comment. That specialty isn't a productivity mill and a lot of the value for it is similar to what social work may provide as an ancillary product of the service in addition to diagnosis etc.....those other services are incredibly undervalued in my opinion.

I'd love to get wifed up by a fam med doc. Would have enough time for life in that specialty as well.

The pros that he described exist in certain fields of medicine

Ya.

I would say that PT are just salespeople, while physicians look at the patient at a holistic perspective mentally, physically, and emotionally in order to treat the symptoms. But, I didn't.

Lol. Bro, I'm sorry this one's just bad. 8-15 min. visits and constant fight with pharma, insurance, and paperwork doesn't give you a holistic 30 min. to 1 hr eval. and interaction (altho the depth of PT can vary if in an ortho/modality mill, an inpatient setting, or a rural OP cash based setting where you take as much time as you want and do literally everything for a shoulder assessment, pain assessment, check ADLs and goal set etc.)

when it's a team effort regarding patient care.

Yep.

 

[vm26]

I am just curious if any of you were previously pre-med, and then made the decision to pursue physical therapy instead and why.

🙂

Started PT school in the late 90s when the field was pretty hot, graduated into a dismal job market and after working unrewarding jobs for about 4 yrs, decided on applying to med school. Now I'm a radiologist, while I am somewhat disconnected to clinical medicine, comparing medicine to PT is really apples and oranges. Day to day I now work significantly harder, am challenged much more often (with more stress), and have much longer hours (including nights, weekends) than I did as a PT, also make substantially more and have much more time off so its a trade off. While I do miss the interaction/relationships I had with some patients as a PT, I def don't miss the pain in the a** workers comp, everything hurts patients. With the current healthcare environment I would not recommend med school, if one wants clinical medicine go the PA/NP route. Not sure what the PT market looks like these days and how it compares to being a PTA

 

[engmedpt]

Started PT school in the late 90s when the field was pretty hot, graduated into a dismal job market and after working unrewarding jobs for about 4 yrs, decided on applying to med school. Now I'm a radiologist, while I am somewhat disconnected to clinical medicine, comparing medicine to PT is really apples and oranges. Day to day I now work significantly harder, am challenged much more often (with more stress), and have much longer hours (including nights, weekends) than I did as a PT, also make substantially more and have much more time off so its a trade off. While I do miss the interaction/relationships I had with some patients as a PT, I def don't miss the pain in the a** workers comp, everything hurts patients. With the current healthcare environment I would not recommend med school, if one wants clinical medicine go the PA/NP route. Not sure what the PT market looks like these days and how it compares to being a PTA

That was a terrible time to graduate.

Market is solid and will be for a little bit, but it will flood again in less than a decade. Getting into a school that doesn't charge you into poverty is worth it at the moment.


Also, are all the rumors people toss out about people outsourcing radiology to work to India and Australia just flat out fear mongering? Heard some friends throwing conniption fits about it.

 

[68PGunner]

That was a terrible time to graduate.

Market is solid and will be for a little bit, but it will flood again in less than a decade. Getting into a school that doesn't charge you into poverty is worth it at the moment.


Also, are all the rumors people toss out about people outsourcing radiology to work to India and Australia just flat out fear mongering? Heard some friends throwing conniption fits about it.

They're wrong. Radiologists have to work a little bit harder to maintain the same paycheck. However, if a medical school graduate picks a field strictly based on pay and time off, he/she makes a poor choice.

 

[NewTestament]

If you want to get rich, start a business, sell something, or invest money. Going to school for 7 years and paying $250k and then working for peanuts as an intern is not a smart way to make $150-200k a year. Long hours, low job satisfaction, high stress, high liability, high cost of insurance, and increased regulatory burden lead to burn out. Most physicians are poor BTW.

 

[redrose424]

If you want to get rich, start a business, sell something, or invest money. Going to school for 7 years and paying $250k and then working for peanuts as an intern is not a smart way to make $150-200k a year. Long hours, low job satisfaction, high stress, high liability, high cost of insurance, and increased regulatory burden lead to burn out. Most physicians are poor BTW.

Most physicians are poor? What reasoning do you have behind that nonsense?

 

[ishadpt]

When a disaster strikes, there's not much use for a PT in the aftermath.
I agree with most of what you are saying but if you look at the the history of PT much advancements were made after WWI & WWII. I know it's not as "immediate" or as visible as medicine but we do help people. Have you been to any VA hospital these days? PTs over there are doing great work with amputees there, some stuff they are doing now was never done before. I think we very much have a role to play after disaster strikes. We are just in the background.

 

[NewTestament]

Most physicians are poor? What reasoning do you have behind that nonsense?

Most physicians have high-consumption lifestyles for various reasons: society expects them to be rich and physicians expect to be rich so they spend a lot. I refer you to The Millionaire Next Door by Thomas Stanley for details.

 

[redrose424]

Most physicians have high-consumption lifestyles for various reasons: society expects them to be rich and physicians expect to be rich so they spend a lot. I refer you to The Millionaire Next Door by Thomas Stanley for details.

Most people who are truly considered poor don't have the option to live a high-consumption lifestyle.

 

[engmedpt]

They're wrong. Radiologists have to work a little bit harder to maintain the same paycheck. However, if a medical school graduate picks a field strictly based on pay and time off, he/she makes a poor choice.

Was the friends being wrong statement supposed to correlate with working harder? Couldn't tell if I read that correctly. Working harder would imply a higher caseload due to a cut in reimbursements I'm assuming....so the radiologist puts in more hours to maintain a salary. The question was actually if slides were being shipped to other areas for cheap labor and whether or not that was fact or fiction. I couldn't tell if the first bold was saying "no, they are not getting shipped to different countries. That is fiction" followed up with just a statement that radiologists do work harder for a paycheck that is unrelated to the question.


As for point no. two

My sibling has a family, wonderful children, and enough time to provide a valuable service while allotting the outside work hours for the specialty she chose to contribute to family.
Your perception as you go through school will change more and more. It sounds like you are really trying to make the choice based on your interest and stimulation level or you are looking to fill a job where there is a societal need. Both are awesome, but don't be surprised if you completely change your mind.

If you want to get rich, start a business, sell something, or invest money. Going to school for 7 years and paying $250k and then working for peanuts as an intern is not a smart way to make $150-200k a year. Long hours, low job satisfaction, high stress, high liability, high cost of insurance, and increased regulatory burden lead to burn out. Most physicians are poor BTW.

Just curious, what comment was this addressing?

Most physicians are poor? What reasoning do you have behind that nonsense?

He's taking into account the fact that since physician student debt is approaching 200k+ on average (the reported 175k just now hitting the general public is years behind what many schools are charging now bc of guaranteed gov. funding in "aid" and a supply and demand model from my parents generation flooding everyone to college and a population boom of ppl trying to enter healthcare at a time when there will be jobs), the residency system and fellowship system used for both training, slavery for hospital administrators, and competition to get more and more competitive as you are kept out of a market until a job opens up (3-7 yrs....sometimes longer) has not increased pay at all during that time period (they pull like 40k), as well as the amount of actual hours worked (so divide 40k by 2 to get 20k if they are working 80 hrs a week and that is close to their annual after adjusted for actual hours worked).

They make amazing gross paychecks later on, but its nowhere NEAR what the forbes and usworldnewsreport report which completely disregard the debt, opportunity cost, hours, and lets not forget the sums they pay for malpractice insurance (its awful) coupled with the occasional lawyer lawsuit (they try to wreck docs all the time). however, the general public only sees shiny white coats, their copays, and reported salaries on the news and have no idea what goes on behind the scenes.....which leads to them jealousy of their pay and physicians getting persecuted in the news and "quality" journal articles ike NYT.

That being said, PT debt average is 80-100k and the pay is poor for the proactive value it can provide and how intense the curriculum is which continually builds off of courses. All the health professions students (PA, OT, nursing, med, dental) are amazed at how insanely difficult and more in depth our anatomy, msk, and just basic clinical skills classes are compared to other colleges. Actively flossing tendons and nerves through extensor expansions on the weekends in your own time in order to pass your perfect recall, fill in the blank anatomy labs where interosseus branches of nerves are tagged and you have to run through all muscle innervations and state what movement would be lost visually when looking at a patient is nuts...... but the PA student that gets a multiple choice test thinks they understand movement just as well as PTs and they get much higher paychecks with macro level knowledge on essentially everything related to medicine without specialized knowledge (sorry, really really wanted to let some steam off in this comment...and I know their billing and reimbursement with patient case loads is much different).

It's likely this intensity is not all across the board though considering the ease of accreditation standards.

I keep reading more and more outcomes research and underutilization of physical therapy as well. I really hope that can get to insurance companies. Less patients pay and less visits to the hospital would mean savings for insurance companies which should increase reimbursements for physical therapy services since they're already cheap but can provide longterm proactive value and deter future costs that would far exceed the costs down the road. I'm particularly interested in manual therapy and differential dx of one treatment over another widely accepted and 3x more costly one. The trick is getting lobbyist groups to legislators and insurance companies and unfortunately we don't have the massive nursing lobby who lobbies for suspect research articles and patient satisfaction anyway.

I totally went off topic, but I really need a good vent.

When a disaster strikes, there's not much use for a PT in the aftermath.
I agree with most of what you are saying but if you look at the the history of PT much advancements were made after WWI & WWII. I know it's not as "immediate" or as visible as medicine but we do help people. Have you been to any VA hospital these days? PTs over there are doing great work with amputees there, some stuff they are doing now was never done before. I think we very much have a role to play after disaster strikes. We are just in the background.

The amount of work with PTs in the VA system and being the middleman getting amputees using biomedical devices is big. I've heard they are being employed in the ER as well now?

Most physicians have high-consumption lifestyles for various reasons: society expects them to be rich and physicians expect to be rich so they spend a lot. I refer you to The Millionaire Next Door by Thomas Stanley for details.

Currently living on 13k/yr to have a 0.9:1 debt to income ratio with the realistic salary projections unless those increase by negotiation time by graduation....I must say....while physicians don't make anywhere near what people really think in pure earnings, they're not living in poverty like this LOL.

 

[NewTestament]

Most people who are truly considered poor don't have the option to live a high-consumption lifestyle.

That's exactly why they're poor. They spend all their money so they have no money for retirement, savings, investments, etc. They devote little time to financial planning. You can have a nice lifestyle and be poor. Ask Mike Tyson, Curt Schilling, Nicolas Cage, etc.

 

[NewTestament]

Currently living on 13k/yr to have a 0.9:1 debt to income ratio with the realistic salary projections unless those increase by negotiation time by graduation....I must say....while physicians don't make anywhere near what people really think in pure earnings, they're not living in poverty like this LOL.

I think you mean 130k/yr. They're not living in poverty but they're trading their time for money and their net worth is actually very low. There's a big difference between net worth and income.

 

[redrose424]

That's exactly why they're poor. They spend all their money so they have no money for retirement, savings, investments, etc. They devote little time to financial planning. You can have a nice lifestyle and be poor. Ask Mike Tyson, Curt Schilling, Nicolas Cage, etc.

Or, you know, they can't afford a nice lifestyle and are still poor. I'm talking about the majority of the country. I realize that doctors may live a high consumption lifestyle, spend out of their means, and not devote the proper time to saving for retirement etc. That does not constitute being "poor" when the majority of the country cannot do any of these things and are also only making about 30k a year per person. They just aren't on the same level.

 

[redrose424]

He's taking into account the fact that since physician student debt is approaching 200k+ on average (the reported 175k just now hitting the general public is years behind what many schools are charging now bc of guaranteed gov. funding in "aid" and a supply and demand model from my parents generation flooding everyone to college and a population boom of ppl trying to enter healthcare at a time when there will be jobs), the residency system and fellowship system used for both training, slavery for hospital administrators, and competition to get more and more competitive as you are kept out of a market until a job opens up (3-7 yrs....sometimes longer) has not increased pay at all during that time period (they pull like 40k), as well as the amount of actual hours worked (so divide 40k by 2 to get 20k if they are working 80 hrs a week and that is close to their annual after adjusted for actual hours worked).

They make amazing gross paychecks later on, but its nowhere NEAR what the forbes and usworldnewsreport bulls%^t report which completely disregard the debt, opportunity cost, hours, and lets not forget the sums they pay for malpractice insurance (its awful) coupled with the occasional lawyer lawsuit (those tools try to wreck docs all the time). however, the general public only sees shiny white coats, their copays, and reported salaries on the news and have no idea what goes on behind the scenes.....which leads to them b^%ching and physicians getting persecuted in the news and "quality" journal articles (LOL) like NYT.

That being said, PT debt average is 80-100k and the pay is poor for the proactive value it can provide and how intense the curriculum is which continually builds off of courses. All the health professions students (PA, OT, nursing, med, dental) are amazed at how insanely difficult and more in depth our anatomy, msk, and just basic clinical skills classes are compared to other colleges. Actively flossing tendons and nerves through extensor expansions on the weekends in your own time in order to pass your perfect recall, fill in the blank anatomy labs where interosseus branches of nerves are tagged and you have to run through all muscle innervations and state what movement would be lost visually when looking at a patient is nuts...... but the PA student that gets a multiple choice test thinks they understand movement just as well as PTs and they get much higher paychecks with macro level knowledge on essentially everything related to medicine without specialized knowledge (sorry, really really wanted to let some steam off in this comment...and I know their billing and reimbursement with patient case loads is much different).

It's likely this intensity is not all across the board though considering the ease of accreditation standards.

I keep reading more and more outcomes research and underutilization of physical therapy as well. I really hope that can get to insurance companies. Less patients pay and less visits to the hospital would mean savings for insurance companies which should increase reimbursements for physical therapy services since they're already cheap but can provide longterm proactive value and deter future costs that would far exceed the costs down the road. I'm particularly interested in manual therapy and differential dx of one treatment over another widely accepted and 3x more costly one. The trick is getting lobbyist groups to legislators and insurance companies and unfortunately we don't have the massive nursing lobby who lobbies for trash anyway.

I totally went off topic, but I really need a good vent.

Of course I see that aspect of what he's saying concerning physicians, but I hardly think in a time where many people can barely afford food that constitutes being poor (keep in mind I'm referring to a well-established physician, not the slavery of residency).

And I thoroughly enjoyed your little vent, are you saying in the future PT's salaries may increase if insurance companies catch on? I think the field of physical therapy is gaining recognition even among the general public, or at least that is my impression given to me from friends/family members.

 

[jblil]

The NY Times ran a couple of articles a few years ago about radiologists' declining incomes due to outsourcing:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/28/h...ialties-see-dream-jobs-disappearing.html?_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/16/business/who-s-reading-your-x-ray.html?pagewanted=all

 

[68PGunner]

Due to certain regulations, images can't be read by offshore Indian radiologists. I think that answers your question.

 

[engmedpt]

I think you mean 130k/yr. They're not living in poverty but they're trading their time for money and their net worth is actually very low. There's a big difference between net worth and income.

My message was misinterpreted due to poor phrasing. I currently live on around 3/4ths minimum wage while attending school....I cook my own meals, I take the buses, I go out for some drinks or for entertainment once per week max, I have roommates, I utilize everything the aprt complex offers, and I occasionally do side jobs to pull in money, however I need to slow down due to how absurdly intense this month leading to finals is.

Or, you know, they can't afford a nice lifestyle and are still poor. I'm talking about the majority of the country. I realize that doctors may live a high consumption lifestyle, spend out of their means, and not devote the proper time to saving for retirement etc. That does not constitute being "poor" when the majority of the country cannot do any of these things and are also only making about 30k a year per person. They just aren't on the same level.

The average I believe is around 26k. Household income is around 52k for a married couple with both working.

Of course I see that aspect of what he's saying concerning physicians, but I hardly think in a time where many people can barely afford food that constitutes being poor (keep in mind I'm referring to a well-established physician, not the slavery of residency).

His comment was more exaggeration I believe in order to get the point across that they legitimately dot earn much money after accounting for time commitment, hours worked, and unsubsidized student debt.

And I thoroughly enjoyed your little vent, are you saying in the future PT's salaries may increase if insurance companies catch on? I think the field of physical therapy is gaining recognition even among the general public, or at least that is my impression given to me from friends/family members.

Only if people in the industry give a f%#k. There is no "catching on" from insurance companies. Your homeboy sitting behind his or her computer isn't doing healthcare outcomes research..... I am flabbergasted at some of the research being pumped out that are cohort and case control studies that show the cost savings and quality of life enhancement by going to physical therapy first or receiving physical therapy interventions and the fact that NONE of it receives its due diligence in reimbursement even though the diagnosis may be the same result of going to get imaging or seeing a physician or chiro.

I believe insurance does a poor job billing proactively honestly, all they care about is profit anyway. Increased reimbursement to PT services and social and public promotion of physical therapy could be a boom for cost savings for the massive boomer population retiring and the insurers taking bets on their lives. I know that sounds awful, but that's how the system is simply run.

The problem is that there isn't enough lobbying and involvement in getting the outcomes research funneled to these companies and so you see no tangible payout. It's frustrating because the research I see has some excellent categorical and continuous outcomes as opposed to some of the nursing research I've seen that gets circulated plain and simply because the nursing lobby is big.

Legislators are also incredibly ignorant and vote on healthcare policy bills with which they have no knowledge base which is why flooding them with letters, phone calls, and condensed quality studies can influence their vote for physical therapy practice across the nation.

The biggest issue blocking what physical therapy can offer the public and receiving its due diligence reimbursement is also the price of education that administrators and department heads are charging coupled with widespread accreditation of too many schools that offer poor curriculum quality compared to others (although that is probably unavoidable).

Students get out from school, look at their debt load, and also see that they aren't reimbursed for things taught in good schools that may be incredibly simple to do with the extended patient to clinician timelength we have......so they don't participate in their professional organizations or in sending letters and emails to congress (NHSC should be coming through by the way for physical therapists after the flood of info. congress received recently). Others get out and actually weren't exposed to the research and newer things that may create a solid business model since schools vary so widely.

The NY Times ran a couple of articles a few years ago about radiologists' declining incomes due to outsourcing:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/28/h...ialties-see-dream-jobs-disappearing.html?_r=0
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/11/16/business/who-s-reading-your-x-ray.html?pagewanted=all

I'm absolutely amazed at some of the med students here and their belief that they can ride a magic unicorn to their "calling" and that they can do anything they want without dealing with total bs just like the business world.

 

[engmedpt]

Due to certain regulations, images can't be read by offshore Indian radiologists. I think that answers your question.

Yet. If you go that route, then make sure it stays that way. Patient deaths and horrific misdiagnoses shouldn't be the determining factor

 

[vm26]

That was a terrible time to graduate.

Market is solid and will be for a little bit, but it will flood again in less than a decade. Getting into a school that doesn't charge you into poverty is worth it at the moment.


Also, are all the rumors people toss out about people outsourcing radiology to work to India and Australia just flat out fear mongering? Heard some friends throwing conniption fits about it.

Entered radiology when it was quite competitive only to graduate into a horrendous market, my career timing has been horrible! While international outsourcing is not an imminent threat, US teleradiology, commoditization, reimbursement cuts, and continuous overproduction of radiologists have really taken its toll. I ended up doing 2 fellowships (on top of 5 year residency) to land a very good job in a good location. Also a big disconnect between training and real-world expectations in terms of productivity and efficiency. Would not recommend the field to med students at this point.

 

[engmedpt]

I ended up doing 2 fellowships (on top of 5 year residency)

^How competitive were your fellowships and how was competition gauged?




I'm surprised that they're trying to do residencies and fellowships for physical therapy currently. The amount is very low but the number of graduates is skyrocketing.....eventually getting those tacked onto resumes will probably become required for x job in x location.

So many older PT jobs that are still around that require that degree transition for entry level also haven't really changed whatsoever so obviously those wont have the residency requirement since its superfluous and useless for the skillset.

 

[scrawnyguy]

I started off as pre-med and if I was 10 or even 5 years younger I might have pursued that route. This is a 2nd career for me and I'll be almost 35 by the time I start PT school. At this point in my life work/life balance is super important as I am beginning to start a family. I looked ahead to medical school, residency, fellowship, etc. I knew I would be north of 40 before I was actually practicing. I also knew that family life would get pushed to the back burner which a no-go for me. I know some people are able to strike a balance, but I wasn't willing to take that risk. The amount of debt I would encounter, coupled with fewer years of work to recoup that "loss" also played a factor.

 

[starrsgirl]

^^^I feel the same!

 

[StayHumbleHustleHard]

My views are not skewed. If I want to present a skewed perspective, I would say that PT are just salespeople, while physicians look at the patient at a holistic perspective mentally, physically, and emotionally in order to treat the symptoms. But, I didn't.

The pros he described for PT can be found in family medicine. Yet, he didn't spend time shadowing the different fields of medicine. He generalizes medicine as only ER/trauma. The fact is that he didn't do his due diligence. PT is a great field. But, I certainly hope that providers don't bash one field for another in a professional setting when it's a team effort regarding patient care.

I would say PTs look at the patient from a more holistic perspective mentally, physically, and emotionally. Physicians usually just treat the symptoms, usually in a number of different specialties. and they aren't as personable. PT's are definitely more personable and easy to communicate with. Physicians are less likely to show emotion while PT's act as a personal cheerleader for their patients. These are all things that I've been able to gather from people who've experienced sessions with both PT and doctors. PT seems to win every time from the patient standpoint overall.