Anyone want to be a DO, MD?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Luck

Membership Revoked
Removed
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
May 31, 2004
Messages
372
Reaction score
0
Now you can be one at the UHSA in the caribbean. Here is the link:

http://www.uhsa.ag/pstudent/four/resdt/overview.htm

Basically, during your 4th year of DO rotations or your residency, you take this 12 month online course concurrently. Once you complete it you get your MD from UHSA and your DO from whatever osteopathic school you go to. It costs $19,255 for a year and if you spend another year it's only $1,500 extra.

On the website, off the left side is more information including a FAQ section for those interested. They even have the personal info from graduates of the program who are now practicing in the US. Personally, I don't think it's worth paying the extra $20,000 just for the letters but if you really want that MD and your a DO student, here's the way to go. 🙂
 
Thats alot of cash for just two letters behind your name. Although if your going to practice in certain in countries it is wort it.
 
It depends on where you're practicing. If you're in a group of MDs or in a large "What's a DO?" type area, it may be easier to do this and never have to worry about it.

Seems like a waste of money to me, but eliminates the problems of doing to a DO school for some.
 
Can you imagine the confusion and subsequent embarrasment when discussing where you went to medschool?
 
No surprise here. We all see it coming, don't we? Besides, we (SDN'ers) are the ones who indirectly made the request for it. It is interesting to see when the AMA is going to take over this lucrative business though.

I estimate that 55-60% of DO does really care about the letter behind their name. You know. They want them to be nothing else but D.O. Only a good number of minorities don't really care. They are the one who will truly take anything behind their name, regardlessly. They just want to be a doctor. Isn't it ironic to hear it otherwise all the time? My crystal ball is looming some change for the better now. Soon, everyone in the osteopathic community will not really care about the letters anymore, be it D.O. as is, D.O./M.D. or even M.D. A.O.A. will retain them all as member in good standing. Am I being wrong?
 
calcrew14 said:
Soon, everyone in the osteopathic community will not really care about the letters anymore, be it D.O. as is, D.O./M.D. or even M.D. A.O.A. will retain them all as member in good standing. Am I being wrong?
The AOA doesn't even recognize DO's that didn't take an osteopathic internship as "members". 🙄
 
I might would actually do this, in case I'm ever stationed overseas and for some reason want to practice off base.

Of course, once you actually look at world-wide practice rights for DOs, they're not as limited as most of us think.
 
you can go ahead and get an MD there but that caribbean school is rejected by almost every state in the US. If you want to practice overseas, then I guess it's a valid thing to have.

Most DO's are gonna see that and roll their eyes at you. Most MD's are gonna see that and think you're insecure of your already legitimate and qualified degree.
 
NDESTRUKT said:
you can go ahead and get an MD there but that caribbean school is rejected by almost every state in the US. If you want to practice overseas, then I guess it's a valid thing to have.

Most DO's are gonna see that and roll their eyes at you. Most MD's are gonna see that and think you're insecure of your already legitimate and qualified degree.

Ding Ding Ding, we have a winner! 🙂
 
NDESTRUKT said:
you can go ahead and get an MD there but that caribbean school is rejected by almost every state in the US. If you want to practice overseas, then I guess it's a valid thing to have.

I don't *really* intend to do it anyways, it was just a thought if, for some reason, I was stationed outside of the US and wanted to practice.

However, it seems many countries don't limit DO practice rights as much as is tossed around on this board.
 
Buster Douglas said:
The AOA doesn't even recognize DO's that didn't take an osteopathic internship as "members". 🙄

Thanks, I am surprised to hear that. You mean that almost half of DO's (those who takes allopathic training) are not eligible for AOA membership application. Sound like they are disnissed. No wonder why a lot of people wouldn't mind new letters behind them. Can they apply to AMA as is or after they have those MD from Caribbean schools? Is there any organization that they can turn to?

The reason why I have been so skeptical is because I can't help wondering about unity within the DO community. It doesn't look helpful when AOA is not for every DO and vice versa. How could the other half of the community be dedicated when they know that they don't belong, right from the start?
 
Buster Douglas said:
The AOA doesn't even recognize DO's that didn't take an osteopathic internship as "members". 🙄
This is not entirely the case. I know a DO who did an allopathic residency yet he is an AOA member. As I understand it, you can apply for membership even if you do an allopathic residency, as long as the AOA counts your 1st year at the allopathic residency as your 1st year of AOA internship. This is done quite often and I believe this is what QuinnNSU did.
 
Luck said:
This is not entirely the case. I know a DO who did an allopathic residency yet he is an AOA member. As I understand it, you can apply for membership even if you do an allopathic residency, as long as the AOA counts your 1st year at the allopathic residency as your 1st year of AOA internship. This is done quite often and I believe this is what QuinnNSU did.
I know Quinn did get the internship waived, but I don't think he's technically an AOA member... I could be wrong...

The way I understand it, DO's can get the internship waived if they want to practice in 1 of the 5 states that requires the DO internship but cannot become a member of the AOA... excluding them from having a shot at teaching at an osteopathic school, becoming the president of the AOA, etc.. What baffles me is that PhDs and MDs teach at every osteopathic institution and even the AOA's own "Executive Director" is a JD, yet DO's that did not complete the internship can't hold these positions...what gives? 😕
 
Luck said:
Now you can be one at the UHSA in the caribbean. Here is the link:

http://www.uhsa.ag/pstudent/four/resdt/overview.htm

Basically, during your 4th year of DO rotations or your residency, you take this 12 month online course concurrently. Once you complete it you get your MD from UHSA and your DO from whatever osteopathic school you go to. It costs $19,255 for a year and if you spend another year it's only $1,500 extra.

On the website, off the left side is more information including a FAQ section for those interested. They even have the personal info from graduates of the program who are now practicing in the US. Personally, I don't think it's worth paying the extra $20,000 just for the letters but if you really want that MD and your a DO student, here's the way to go. 🙂
That is flippin ******ed. If you want the MD so bad that the DO letters are not enough, then do NOT go to DO school, go to MD school. Personally, I believe in the DO philosophy etc, etc, but I have no problem with allopathic hopefulls choosing DO as their second choice, UNLESS they are going to spend the rest of their lives being unsatisfied, resentful, or searching for a way to get that MD. If you are a DO student and will not be proud of your credentials when you graduate, then you should quit. If you can't get in to MD school, wait a year, fix what is wrong, reapply, and save yourself the $19,255. This reminds me of those spam emails that offer to confer a college degree for a large fee and very little effort. Really, what is the point in having a meaningless MD to add to the alphabet soup after your name. Ok, ranting completed.
 
How would getting an MD from UHSA help in obtaining foreign practice rights?

If the country is not willing to recognize 4 years of osteopathic medical education, do you think that country will automatically give you practice rights for taking an online course for 12 months (in what? the MD philosophy?) If I get a 12 month internet MD, can I practice in the US because I have an MD (assuming the US doesn't recognize osteopathic medicine)? Canada? France? Ireland?

Just because you have an MD does not automatically give you practice rights. Each country will have standards and the 12 month internet course for the MD will probably not meet many of those standards (remember, the 4 years of osteopathic medical education won't be counted). I wonder if there are any countries that will give practice rights to a DO w/ the UHSA 12-month earned MD (provided that the particular country does not recognize osteopathic medicine).

So the foreign practice rights argument is slim at best.

And thus you're back at square one - you're spending ~ $20k for show, so that you can put DO,MD (or have the audacity to drop the DO and just use MD - even though it is illegal in some states, i.e. California)


Other issues raised in this thread

You are not required to do an AOA-approved internship to become a member of the AOA. In fact, non DOs can be members of the AOA (well, associated member).
http://do-online.osteotech.org/index.cfm?PageID=mem_join
However, if you don't have an AOA-approved internship (either via osteopathic internship or AOA accepted ACGME internship), you can not be board certified in an osteopathic specialty board, become dean of an osteopathic medical college, and other certain perks.

Osteopathic physicians are required to have completed an AOA-approved internship in order to be licensed in Florida, Michigan, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania, and West Virginia. Completion of an AOA-approved internship is required for application to an AOA-approved residency, and for entrance into the AOA board eligibility and certification process. AOA board certification is required to become a Director of Medical Education (DME) or a Program Director in AOA-approved postdoctoral programs.
http://do-online.osteotech.org/index.cfm?PageID=sir_faq1

You can always join the AMA as a DO (physican or student)... In fact, most osteopathic medical schools have a local AMA chapter. PCOM has the largest AMA chapter (number of student members) in Pennsylvania 😎
 
group_theory said:
How would getting an MD from UHSA help in obtaining foreign practice rights?

If the country is not willing to recognize 4 years of osteopathic medical education, do you think that country will automatically give you practice rights for taking an online course for 12 months (in what? the MD philosophy?) If I get a 12 month internet MD, can I practice in the US because I have an MD (assuming the US doesn't recognize osteopathic medicine)? Canada? France? Ireland?

Just because you have an MD does not automatically give you practice rights. Each country will have standards and the 12 month internet course for the MD will probably not meet many of those standards (remember, the 4 years of osteopathic medical education won't be counted). I wonder if there are any countries that will give practice rights to a DO w/ the UHSA 12-month earned MD (provided that the particular country does not recognize osteopathic medicine).
To clarify this point. In the FAQ, it says that the credits from your 3 years at DO school transfer to UHSA for their MD program. Thus, it is like you're transferring to their school but still are in your DO school. In that way, you receive your MD along with all the other MD students at UHSA that went through the 4-year pathway.

Also, it does also say in the FAQ, that your MD will be recognized in the US as long as you pass the USMLE. I'm not sure if that's true but that's what it says.
 
group_theory said:
So the foreign practice rights argument is slim at best:

And contrary to what many people say, nowadays there are very FEW countries in the world that are unwilling to grant full practice rights to DO's.
 
http://www.uhsa.ag/pstudent/alumni/list.php?cat=do
That link has 15 DO, MDs who graduated from this program. Most are now practicing in the US but one is practicing in France, one in Hong Kong, and one in Iran.

What I found interesting is that if you click the names it has little comments. Some said the MD made their practice more competitive. Some said they could more easily practice all over the world. Some said it just made it easier to practice.
 
Luck said:
Also, it does also say in the FAQ, that your MD will be recognized in the US as long as you pass the USMLE. I'm not sure if that's true but that's what it says.

No, it's not true. In fact most states have it in their laws that ban graduates of that college for getting licenses. The US isn't stupid and knows what goes on with these things. An MD from that school is not recognized. There are some states, though that may recognize it, such as North Dakota I think.
Read this article: http://www.ctnow.com/news/custom/ne...c14,0,2928840.story?coll=hc-headlines-newsat3


Other countries such as third world ones may let you practice there and if you want to do it for missions trips, then more power to you but if you solely want to do it for the MD, it's kind of a waste of money. I don't know anyone that has an MD and DO and practices outside the country (of course I don't know everyone who has done this). The DO degree is completely independent and recognized, regardless of what critics say. The DO is separate from the MD because osteopathic medicine has a separate philosophy of treating the body as a whole, focusing on preventative medicine, and diagnosing the human not just the disease. That is what you represent when you are a DO, and those that do should be darn proud of it. Just be happy with such a degree, or don't do it at all.
 
Buster Douglas said:
I know Quinn did get the internship waived, but I don't think he's technically an AOA member... I could be wrong...

The way I understand it, DO's can get the internship waived if they want to practice in 1 of the 5 states that requires the DO internship but cannot become a member of the AOA... excluding them from having a shot at teaching at an osteopathic school, becoming the president of the AOA, etc.. What baffles me is that PhDs and MDs teach at every osteopathic institution and even the AOA's own "Executive Director" is a JD, yet DO's that did not complete the internship can't hold these positions...what gives? 😕


Ah, I think you may be confused. I'm not sure where you got your info but its sounds off base to me. As long as you have a DO after your name you can become a member of the AOA. At least thats what the Pres. of the AOA said when he came to our school. He said he wanted us to get the best training possible and if we think that we need to go to an allopathinc residency to do that then fine, but make sure that we "come back home" and become members of the AOA. Think about it this way, the more members you have the more money you have. So, as far as i know, you do not need to do an AOA internship, all you need to do is graduate to become a member. Which is a good idea (its in all of our best intrest).
 
NDESTRUKT said:
No, it's not true. In fact most states have it in their laws that ban graduates of that college for getting licenses. The US isn't stupid and knows what goes on with these things. An MD from that school is not recognized. There are some states, though that may recognize it, such as North Dakota I think.
Read this article: http://www.ctnow.com/news/custom/ne...c14,0,2928840.story?coll=hc-headlines-newsat3


Other countries such as third world ones may let you practice there and if you want to do it for missions trips, then more power to you but if you solely want to do it for the MD, it's kind of a waste of money. I don't know anyone that has an MD and DO and practices outside the country (of course I don't know everyone who has done this). The DO degree is completely independent and recognized, regardless of what critics say. The DO is separate from the MD because osteopathic medicine has a separate philosophy of treating the body as a whole, focusing on preventative medicine, and diagnosing the human not just the disease. That is what you represent when you are a DO, and those that do should be darn proud of it. Just be happy with such a degree, or don't do it at all.
Thanks for posting that link. It does say UHSA is one of the schools prohibited. Well than, I'm not too sure about this program anymore.
 
Luck said:
Thanks for posting that link. It does say UHSA is one of the schools prohibited. Well than, I'm not too sure about this program anymore.

If worse comes to worst and you REALLY want to do this, you can still get a license to practice as a DO and say you're "Luck, DO, MD" but in California's Medical Board laws, that's illegal and if you get caught, you'll be busted. It's the same way in many places.

The bottom line is: A DO is a perfectly qualified degree. Do as much as you can with it and it won't matter what degree you have.
 
NDESTRUKT said:
If worse comes to worst and you REALLY want to do this, you can still get a license to practice as a DO and say you're "Luck, DO, MD" but in California's Medical Board laws, that's illegal and if you get caught, you'll be busted. It's the same way in many places.

The bottom line is: A DO is a perfectly qualified degree. Do as much as you can with it and it won't matter what degree you have.
Well I wasn't going to do it as I said in my original post. I don't think the $20,000 is worth it for the letters. I do think it is worth it maybe if you want to practice in a country that doesn't recognize DOs but I don't plan on moving out of the country.
 
UHSA is a diploma mill, pure and simple. Anybody who "completes" this program is a total joke and their "MD" is pure farce and not worth the paper its printed on.

I saw the list of "alumni" from this program and wanted to laugh in their face for being so gullible and stupid.
 
I think anyone who would ever do such a program should get a kick in the ASs. But thats just my opinion. Does anyone else have the same thoughts?
 
:laugh: I think this thread has just crushed the dreams of alot of lurkers who were planning to get an MD.
 
Cowboy DO said:
Ah, I think you may be confused. I'm not sure where you got your info but its sounds off base to me. As long as you have a DO after your name you can become a member of the AOA. At least thats what the Pres. of the AOA said when he came to our school...
My class had a lecture last week on osteopathic graduate medical education from our 'Associate Dean for Post-Graduate Education'. The internship was one of the things he mentioned. "Don't burn your bridges. If you're even considering taking a position at an osteopathic school you have to complete an osteopathic internship."
 
NDESTRUKT said:
most states have it in their laws that ban graduates of that college for getting licenses. The US isn't stupid and knows what goes on with these things. An MD from that school is not recognized. There are some states, though that may recognize it, such as North Dakota I think.

Where do you get this information? According to the article you linked to, the situation is quite to the contrary. "In addition to California and Texas, only a few states either ban graduates of certain schools or restrict their practice: Alabama, Indiana, Idaho, Kansas, New Mexico and Vermont."

So, according to this article, it is a small minority of states which do not recognize a degree from this or any school.
 
I think people may be interested in completing this program not because they think their degree is inferior, or because they would prefer to have an MD, but because having an MD would simply make things easier. I don't see anything wrong with that - and if you believe the degrees are equal, I don't know why anyone would see a problem with it.
 
You guys can't possibly be serious about this website???!

You would be considered a FMG from a lower tier school, have the extra hassle of FMG licensure and furthermore this schools accreditation status is hugely suspect. Licensure would be a NIGHTMARE and residency would be nonexistent for you. No program would want that type of graduate...most avoid FMG's in the first place, let alone this joke of a school. An Osteopathic resident in primary care is far more valuable to a residency than an FMG! And remember, you will want to join a group of physicians right?! Well, how do you put this on your CV,? This type of graduate will not work with in a respected group or attain fellowship for subspecialty.

As far as AOA (american osteopathic association) in an allopathic residency...trust me, the AOA WANTS members, I am a member and I did not do an osteopathic internship year. Since I graduate from an ACGME residency, I will be certified by ABEM (American Board of Emergency Medicine) not AOBEM. I cannot be a FELLOW of ACOEP but I will be a FELLOW of ACEP.
 
DocWagner said:
I cannot be a FELLOW of ACOEP but I will be a FELLOW of ACEP.
I'm Brian Fellows :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:





















😕 Sorry 😕
 
DocWagner said:
As far as AOA (american osteopathic association) in an allopathic residency...trust me, the AOA WANTS members, I am a member and I did not do an osteopathic internship year. Since I graduate from an ACGME residency, I will be certified by ABEM (American Board of Emergency Medicine) not AOBEM. I cannot be a FELLOW of ACOEP but I will be a FELLOW of ACEP.
DW,

Interesting stuff... My only guess is that the rules have changed. 😕

As for the fellowship, I read on a thread that if you do an osteopathic residency you cannot do an allopathic fellowship (or vice versa). Any truth in that?
 
(nicedream) said:
I think people may be interested in completing this program not because they think their degree is inferior, or because they would prefer to have an MD, but because having an MD would simply make things easier. I don't see anything wrong with that - and if you believe the degrees are equal, I don't know why anyone would see a problem with it.

Check with your state about licensing issues. Things will definitely change soon. Even if you got an MD from this school, you'd still have no problem practicing since you have a DO, but the MD is basically a wannabe status.

How many MD's do you see trying to get a DO degree? If you want an MD to make things easier, then you should have applied to an MD school from the get go. You most probably knew that being a DO would have certain side effects that may not be fair, or even founded - but you knew they were there and you still decided to go with it. If you didn't know that before attending DO school, then you didn't do enough research (which I doubt is the case). It's people who are DO and willing to go the hard road that advance the good name of osteopathic medicine and quality care, not the sellouts that get a fake MD.

Disclaimer: I'm a huge proponent of osteopathic medicine, not a hater.
 
In any fellowship you have a better chance at the fellowship if you were in a "bigger" name residency. Generally osteopathic residencies are not "bigger names"...and attaining these fellowships are a rarity, but most fellowships are surgical and IM based, and since I am Emergency Medicine I am not the expert in non-EM fellowships.

Osteopathic fellowships of course allow osteopathic residents, there are a wide range of osteopathic fellowships.
If you wish to be in a big name fellowship, you may wish to pursue an ACGME residency.

I am Brian Fellows and your parrot is staring at me.
 
Buster Douglas said:
My class had a lecture last week on osteopathic graduate medical education from our 'Associate Dean for Post-Graduate Education'. The internship was one of the things he mentioned. "Don't burn your bridges. If you're even considering taking a position at an osteopathic school you have to complete an osteopathic internship."

Well there are quite a few faculty with M.D. degrees at PCOM. They didn't complete an osteopathic intership.

http://www.pcom.edu/catalog0304/acad_radiological.html
 
Buster Douglas said:
There's Ph.D.'s too... go figure. 🙄

I believe you. Just seems ironic that they would give a D.O. a hard time for doing an Allopathic intership when 30% of their faculty is M.D.

🙂
 
Top