AOA-ACGME merger update - orthopedic version

[DarkHorizon]

RRC met earlier this week and 6 more osteopathic orthopedic programs gained initial ACGME accreditation, bringing the total to 14.

Following programs now are ACGME accredited:
Broward
Plainview
Metro health
Cuyahoga falls
Lansing
Botsford
Riverside
Nassau
South pointe
McLaren Oakland
Genesys
Inspira/Vineland
Ventura
Harrisburg

Update:
Add 4 more programs, total of 18.

Modesto
Henry Ford Macomb
Jersey City
GrandView

Update:

Add 2 more programs, bringing the total to 20.
KCUMB- Kansas City
McLaren Macomb

Update:
Few more programs have been accredited, up to 24 now:
St. James Olympia Fields
York, PA
Doctors, Columbus OH
St. Joes, Warren OH

17 programs remain in preaccreditation, I think the best chance to make it are PCOM, UMDNJ, and Toledo. Not very hopeful about the rest.

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[electrolight]

Anyone know any of these PDs and if they plan to participate in the DO match in 2019? I guess I better take step 2 just in case.

 

[DNC127]

RRC met earlier this week and 6 more osteopathic orthopedic programs gained initial ACGME accreditation, bringing the total to 14.

Following programs now are ACGME accredited:
Broward
Plainview
Metro health
Cuyahoga falls
Lansing
Botsford
Riverside
Nassau
South pointe
McLaren Oakland
Genesys
Inspira/Vineland
Ventura
Harrisburg

Any word on if the other programs were close?

 

[hbslax4]

Any word on if the other programs were close?

Would be curious why some of the “more established” programs like PCOM and Doctors are still not accredited. Anyone have insight into what they are still working on fixing?

 

[Bones Bones Bones]

Does this mean MD students can apply to all of these programs this upcoming September?

 

[hbslax4]

Does this mean MD students can apply to all of these programs this upcoming September?

Only if they are participating in the MD match. From what I’ve heard, the majority will still be in the DO match. Some will participate in both. Metro is the only program that I have head of switching over to the MD match only.

 

[DNC127]

Would be curious why some of the “more established” programs like PCOM and Doctors are still not accredited. Anyone have insight into what they are still working on fixing?

I talked to most of the program directors at AOAO and Doctors and PCOM both were confident they would get accreditation so I hope they can pull it off. Especially because both PD's explicitly stated they would NOT take MDs... There were other programs that were less clear with their stance going into the merger.

 

[DarkHorizon]

The only two programs that I know that are participating in NRMP match are Plainview and Broward. Plainview offered half of their spots(3) in the NRMP match, while the three were offered through NMS match. Broward offered two through NMS match and one through NRMP match. Rest of the approved programs have no immediate plans to move to the NRMP match, as far as I know. Will have to see what happens in 2020. Again, this is the information I know, things may be changing at some of the newly approved programs, so it's best to call and ask.

 

[DarkHorizon]

I talked to most of the program directors at AOAO and Doctors and PCOM both were confident they would get accreditation so I hope they can pull it off. Especially because both PD's explicitly stated they would NOT take MDs... There were other programs that were less clear with their stance going into the merger.

Most programs will pull it off I think, the three programs that I doubt will are Larkin, Garden City, and Millcreek.... may be Largo.

 

[DNC127]

Most programs will pull it off I think, the three programs that I doubt will are Larkin, Garden City, and Millcreek.... may be Largo.

Sweet. We appreciate the insight!

 

[hbslax4]

Most programs will pull it off I think, the three programs that I doubt will are Larkin, Garden City, and Millcreek.... may be Largo.

I’m not too familiar with these programs. Just curious, what makes you think they won’t make it?

 

[heraclez]

I know Nassau has stated they are participating in NRMP match already. Unsure how that works with just 2 spots.

 

[DNC127]

Question, @DarkHorizon or anyone who knows, for those graduating in 2020 could they still conceivably match at an AOA program and be board certified due to the fact that AOA programs can graduate students until 2020? Not that this would be ideal, but it is something to think about I guess.

 

[hbslax4]

Question, @DarkHorizon or anyone who knows, for those graduating in 2020 could they still conceivably match at an AOA program and be board certified due to the fact that AOA programs can graduate students until 2020? Not that this would be ideal, but it is something to think about I guess.

Any resident who is in an AOA program that decides to close down will be allowed to finish residency and be certified by the American Osteopathic Board of Orthopedic Surgeons. This will probably only affect those currently in residency and those who just matched and match next year. By 2020, everyone should either have ACGME accreditation or not taking residents.

 

[DNC127]

Any resident who is in an AOA program that decides to close down will be allowed to finish residency and be certified by the American Osteopathic Board of Orthopedic Surgeons. This will probably only affect those currently in residency and those who just matched and match next year. By 2020, everyone should either have ACGME accreditation or not taking residents.

Thank you!!!

 

[hbslax4]

Won't the workload at these places be a total nightmare since you won't have incoming interns to help you?

Yeah probably, but who knows... At the end of this, I don’t think that many programs will be having to deal with this situation. I like to think most programs will make it through.

 

[Pre-Medguy1995]

Does this mean DOs are going to pushed out of Ortho Spots now?

 

[hbslax4]

Does this mean DOs are going to pushed out of Ortho Spots now?

Probably not. But the mediocre applicants with COMLEX scores in the 500’s and no research’s will probably have a much more difficult time now.

 

[phillycheese917]

Most programs will pull it off I think, the three programs that I doubt will are Larkin, Garden City, and Millcreek.... may be Largo.

I'm a resident at Largo and we are very confident that we will be accredited.

 

[Duotone]

Does this mean DOs are going to pushed out of Ortho Spots now?

DOs will remain competitive, probably more competitive if the 2016 and 2017 OITE mean scores are anything to go by.

 

[Pre-Medguy1995]

DOs will remain competitive, probably more competitive if the 2016 and 2017 OITE mean scores are anything to go by.

I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with OITE. I googled it but could you explain how that exam, in particular, plays a role in DOs being competitive or non-competitive?

 

[phillycheese917]

I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with OITE. I googled it but could you explain how that exam, in particular, plays a role in DOs being competitive or non-competitive?

Orthopedic In-service training exam. All orthopedic residents take it yearly regardless of DO or MD program. On the score report you will get a percentile versus all residents that took it that are you same year, a percentile against everyone who took the exam and a percentile against just the same year DO residents. So it is a good way to compare your general orthopedic book knowledge versus other residents.

 

[electrolight]

Valley Consortium now has initial accreditation as of 4/20/18. The programs that don't might not be able to participate in the AOA match according to OKC St. Anthony's.

Edited* programs with initial accreditation

 

[DrMcLovin]

View attachment 232568

St. Johns and Valley Consortium now have initial accreditation as of 4/20/2018. The programs that don't might not be able to participate in the AOA match according to OKC St. Anthony's.

It will be interesting to see what happens. Where did you see St. Johns getting initial accreditation? It looks like Valley consortium was the only one who gained initial accreditation at this RRC meeting on the ACGME website:
https://apps.acgme.org/ads/Public/Reports/ReportRun?ReportId=18&CurrentYear=2017&SpecialtyCode=260

 

[DNC127]

View attachment 232568

St. Johns and Valley Consortium now have initial accreditation as of 4/20/2018. The programs that don't might not be able to participate in the AOA match according to OKC St. Anthony's.

bout to get real sketchy applying ortho as a DO if we cant get more residencies accredited / if we keep opening up 5 new schools every year

 

[DrMcLovin]

It's listed as Providence-Providence Park hospital not St. John Providence on the ACGME ADS website, but they're the same

You're mistaken about that. They're 2 different programs. St. John's does rotate at Providence park but it's not the same program.

Here is the osteopathic one:
ACGME - Accreditation Data System (ADS)

Here is the allopathic one:
ACGME - Accreditation Data System (ADS)

 

[electrolight]

You're mistaken about that. They're 2 different programs. St. John's does rotate at Providence park but it's not the same program.

Here is the osteopathic one:
ACGME - Accreditation Data System (ADS)

Here is the allopathic one:
ACGME - Accreditation Data System (ADS)

Yikes, my bad.

 

[DrMcLovin]

Yikes, my bad.

No worries. Some of the Michigan programs can be confusing due to similar names/rotating at the same hospitals. I just wanted to clear it up for anyone else reading the thread.

 

[TheOther]

bout to get real sketchy applying ortho as a DO if we cant get more residencies accredited / if we keep opening up 5 new schools every year

Yeah, it's a real bummer. This single accreditation thing is a huge loss for DOs, imo.

 

[hbslax4]

View attachment 232568

St. Johns and Valley Consortium now have initial accreditation as of 4/20/2018. The programs that don't might not be able to participate in the AOA match according to OKC St. Anthony's.

Has anyone gotten similar warnings from other programs?

 

[DrJaySomeday]

Has anyone gotten similar warnings from other programs?

I'd imagine a lot of places aren't feeling the need to reach out because they are 1) confident that they'll get accredited in the next round later this year or 2) are trusting that the AOA will allow them to match residents in the final NMS match in Feb. 2019 like St. Anthony's alludes too in their letter to rotators.

 

[JamesPotterMS-3]

Anyone know of any new "DO" programs that have opened up in the past year? My COM's main hospital tried to open a new program and got hospital support but the GME director pulled the plug (mainly due to low volume concerns).

 

[DarkHorizon]

Update:

Three more programs got ACGME approved on 9/21/18.

Henry Ford Macomb
Grandview Kettering
Jersey City

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Does that mean DOs and MDs can apply to this program?

Depends on if they put spots in the NRMP match or not, but yes.

 

[DNC127]

Update:

Three more programs got ACGME approved on 9/21/18.

Henry Ford Macomb
Grandview Kettering
Jersey City

So right now we are at 18 correct? What are the odds of getting up above 25+ at this point do you think?

 

[Pre-Medguy1995]

So right now we are at 18 correct? What are the odds of getting up above 25+ at this point do you think?

Are these the programs that were formerly DO or programs that are new?

Sent from my SM-G950U using SDN mobile

 

[DNC127]

Are these the programs that were formerly DO or programs that are new?

Sent from my SM-G950U using SDN mobile

formerly DO. There are 18 programs, who as of now, will make it past the merger.

 

[DarkHorizon]

So right now we are at 18 correct? What are the odds of getting up above 25+ at this point do you think?

I have already stated my opinion here as to what programs I think are in trouble unless they drastically revamp their respective programs. Most other programs should be able to make it. I think there’s a good chance 25+ programs will make it past the merger.... likely 30 plus in my opinion.

 

[TheBoneDoctah]

I have already stated my opinion here as to what programs I think are in trouble unless they drastically revamp their respective programs. Most other programs should be able to make it. I think there’s a good chance 25+ programs will make it past the merger.... likely 30 plus in my opinion.

Thank you for the information. Not sure if this can be answered, but has anyone heard about if PD of AOA programs will still lean towards accepting DO applicants?

 

[DarkHorizon]

Thank you for the information. Not sure if this can be answered, but has anyone heard about if PD of AOA programs will still lean towards accepting DO applicants?

Most programs will continue to favor DOs, this can change though, but as it stands, most programs will stick to their old selection process.

Also can talk about my own program, PD and faculty are staunchly pro-DO and will do everything to favor DOs. However, there had been some talk from GME to use NRMP match, as every other program in the hospital uses NRMP match, and hence, saving some money for the hospital by not registering for two matches. Will see how that turns out.

 

[DNC127]

Kansas City was accredited today as well

 

[Mad Jack]

Anyone know of any new "DO" programs that have opened up in the past year? My COM's main hospital tried to open a new program and got hospital support but the GME director pulled the plug (mainly due to low volume concerns).

New programs can't open due to the merger

 

[DarkHorizon]

Add McLaren Macomb as well

 

[DNC127]

Going to Broward next month for my audition rotation. Does the "initial accreditation with warning" impact us DOs or is that only for MDs?

Heard it from the PD today. Its because they dont have a gen surg residency (a ACGME requirement), but they are trying to get it set up by aug 2019.

 

[DNC127]

Crazy stat learned at the AOAO conference this week, one program stated they received 240 DO apps this year, which means there is probably somewhere north of 250 DO applicants for the 117 spots available this year, and some of those spots (western reserve, broward, plainview etc) will be NRMP matches. Tough times.

 

[electrolight]

Crazy stat learned at the AOAO conference this week, one program stated they received 240 DO apps this year, which means there is probably somewhere north of 250 DO applicants for the 117 spots available this year, and some of those spots (western reserve, broward, plainview etc) will be NRMP matches. Tough times.

Rotate and you’re in the top 30-50. Have good boards and you’re in the top 15-25 at a program. Be a good student and you’re 5-10. Have 4-5 interviews and the numbers aren’t as bad anymore.

 

[DNC127]

Rotate and you’re in the top 30-50. Have good boards and you’re in the top 15-25 at a program. Be a good student and you’re 5-10. Have 4-5 interviews and the numbers aren’t as bad anymore.

Thanks! perspective is everything.

 

[SW0LDIER]

Rotate and you’re in the top 30-50. Have good boards and you’re in the top 15-25 at a program. Be a good student and you’re 5-10. Have 4-5 interviews and the numbers aren’t as bad anymore.

You have no idea how much better this makes me feel

 

[DNC127]

So this is good news for us DOs meaning they are probably unlikely to accept a MD student

They have already taken 2 MDs, and 1 of their spots this year is in the MD match.

 

[DarkHorizon]

They have already taken 2 MDs, and 1 of their spots this year is in the MD match.

So much for him making the program more competitive, instead he ends up taking one of the attending's daughter. On top of it, she's an IMG. Goes to show you, it's still about who you know, even after ACGME merger. I thought things would improve, but still a good ole boy system.