AOA/AMA merger impact

[drvfedorov]

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Hi everyone,

I will be applying for the 2018 cycle and just wanted some clarification on the merger that is soon to happen (2017?).

Is this merger beneficial for DO students since there will be more residency spots to apply for or is it less beneficial now that MD students also have a larger pool?

Will hospitals prefer MDs over DOs or does it just depend on your app?

I assume its beneficial because the only losing party will be IMGs since DOs/MDs will now compete for the same pool of spots.

Thank you all for your help

 

[Necr0sis713]

I don't know if this helps at all, but an MD told me "Just apply DO, after the merger it's going to be the same thing".

 

[IslandStyle808]

I will be applying for the 2018 cycle and just wanted some clarification on the merger that is soon to happen (2017?).

Merger is happening right now and all 5 year residencies have to apply for ACGME status ASAP. Only a certain amount of former DO residencies have made this cut, but not too large of a loss. The transfer of all residencies will be complete by 2020, before you graduate.

Is this merger beneficial for DO students since there will be more residency spots to apply for or is it less beneficial now that MD students also have a larger pool?

It doesn't change the amount of spots DOs apply to. It makes those DO residencies once only available to DOs now available to US MDs and foreign graduates. So it hurts DOs to a small degree because of this.

Will hospitals prefer MDs over DOs or does it just depend on your app?

It will depend on the residency program. There are top programs who don't take DOs because they have too many MDs already to look at. There are other programs (top and mid-tier) that don't want DOs because of poor performance on clinical rotations. There are other programs that take DOs if they are far better than their MD counter parts. Then there are some that don't have any biases at all.

I assume its beneficial because the only losing party will be IMGs since DOs/MDs will now compete for the same pool of spots.

Nope, you cannot say who will be picked. DOs now have lost their protected residencies and now US MDs, DOs, and IMGs have a shot at it. There will be preference for DOs, but it doesn't mean those programs will be completely filled with DOs as in the past. It could also mean an extremely stellar IMG could take that spot as well. However, as historical results have shown, for most residencies DOs have been picked over most IMGs. The only time this is not true if these people are born outside of the U.S., come from an elite medical school, and are the best in their respective schools; these are the people who land in elite residencies.

However, there are benefits in that post residency no one will question your training because you went to an ACGME program. You will also have the added benefit of having a better shot at fellowship programs, due to residency programs needing to function at higher standards. So post-residencies does have greater benefits.

Thank you all for your help

 

[AlteredScale]

Is this merger beneficial for DO students since there will be more residency spots to apply for or is it less beneficial now that MD students also have a larger pool?

Will hospitals prefer MDs over DOs or does it just depend on your app?

The merger will close. Many AOA spots once open to only DO grads will now be open to MD grads. This will increase competition for DO's for many of the surgical subspecialties and so in many ways, is not beneficial. Before the merger, DO grads could apply through ERAS for ACGME (this is equivalent to AOA, not AMA) residency spots. There are no "new" spots available for DO's because of it.

Many hospitals will prefer MD's over DO's (especially those that are academic or university affiliated and are top tier and in many surgical subspecialties).

 

[radian313]

But I think the general consensus still stands.....US-MD>>>>DO>>>US-IMG>>Foreign IMG

 

[Necr0sis713]

I wonder if DO's will face the same problems with having a private practice? My dad knows some DO's, some located next to his practice (He's MD), and he tells me they get a lot of business and get a lot of money.

 

[Goro]

If you have an OMM practice, in a decent community, your overhead will be small and you can make a decent chunk of change!

I wonder if DO's will face the same problems with having a private practice? My dad knows some DO's, some located next to his practice (He's MD), and he tells me they get a lot of business and get a lot of money.

 

[radian313]

If you have an OMM practice, in a decent community, your overhead will be small and you can make a decent chunk of change!

@Goro is it safe to think people would want a one stop shop for their, lets say for the sake of argument "sciatica" or "piriformis syndrome", but right now they simply don't know the scope of what a DO can do with OMT/OMM versus going to a chiropractor/PT/PCP.....I am optimistic I think people simply don't know what a DO can do, if anything its advantageous in my opinion. But what I am asking is, if what I am thinking is the right way to think for the future in how DO's will be thought of?

 

[Goro]

Yes for an OMM specialist. No for DOs in any other areas. They'll be seen as just another doctor.

@Goro is it safe to think people would want a one stop shop for their, lets say for the sake of argument "sciatica" or "piriformis syndrome", but right now they simply don't know the scope of what a DO can do with OMT/OMM versus going to a chiropractor/PT/PCP.....I am optimistic I think people simply don't know what a DO can do, if anything its advantageous in my opinion. But what I am asking is, if what I am thinking is the right way to think for the future in how DO's will be thought of?

 

[radian313]

Yes for an OMM specialist. No for DOs in any other areas. They'll be seen as just another doctor.

Thanks!

 

[OrdinaryDO]

My outlook going into this merger is this...don't get greedy, be realistic, and stick to what the numbers allow. If I am genuinely interested in a specialty, and I have the board scores for it, then as long as I am not super determined to score a top residency program I should be fine. In my state, our school has more residency slots than they do residents. My state is extremely biased to favor in-state residents from their respective state medical schools. Just be open minded and realistic..this merger is not the end of the world for DOs. To me, this merger means more respect, better quality of training, and a level playing ground for all MD and DO counterparts alike.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Just be open minded and realistic..this merger is not the end of the world for DOs. To me, this merger means more respect, better quality of training, and a level playing ground for all MD and DO counterparts alike.

This is solid. Coming out of residency into fellowships and jobs this merger will boost respect. For residency, long as someone is realistic and has the app to match their specialty choice then they will probably match decently. It will be interesting to see how everything plays out in the next 10 years

 

[drvfedorov]

Thank you all for your information. I was especially interested in this since I am a canadian student. Once I finish medical school, it'll be even harder for me since the residency programs will have to sponsor my visa, which makes me less favourable than an equally qualified US student.

 

[OrdinaryDO]

Thank you all for your information. I was especially interested in this since I am a canadian student. Once I finish medical school, it'll be even harder for me since the residency programs will have to sponsor my visa, which makes me less favourable than an equally qualified US student.

I have a quick question. I'm not sure how Canadians do it up north, but why do Canadians attending the U.S. Medical schools want to do residency in the U.S.? It is because it is of higher quality training? Or is it because of one of the more intuitive answers, such as it is better to train where you did your schooling and/or there is a biased against doing residency in a different country than you did medical school? Just curious.

 

[drvfedorov]

It's because once you leave canada, you are considered an IMG when applying to canadian residency programs. So yes there is a HUGE bias against doing your residency in a different country. It also doesn't help when you have so few schools compared to the number of students that are wanting to pursue medicine, so you have a lot of them leave Canada. Upon wanting to return the % of seats available to IMGs vs. the # of IMGs (including canadian PRs) is so large that your chances of matching are slim at best. However, it does happen with MDs, but you need to score extremely well on the canadian boards.

In regards to DO students, another hurdle becomes the actual title of DO. I believe there are only 3 provinces that actually consider DOs. And as of last year a USDO = IMG in respects to matching.

I hope I didn't make any mistakes in explaining. If there are any canadians that have more knowledge about this please correct me.

 

[JoeUSA]

I have a quick question. I'm not sure how Canadians do it up north, but why do Canadians attending the U.S. Medical schools want to do residency in the U.S.? It is because it is of higher quality training? Or is it because of one of the more intuitive answers, such as it is better to train where you did your schooling and/or there is a biased against doing residency in a different country than you did medical school? Just curious.

American education and training are highly valuable and highly respected.

American hospitals have more technology available.

 

[astrostellar]

Is it still going to be worth it for DO students to take the USMLE for more competitive residencies?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Is it still going to be worth it for DO students to take the USMLE for more competitive residencies?

Worth it? I think it's safe to assume it's just going to be an unwritten requirement. Perhaps even a written requirement before too long

 

[Carbon090]

Worth it? I think it's safe to assume it's just going to be an unwritten requirement. Perhaps even a written requirement before too long

This ^ I think it's safe to say that if you go to a DO school it's best to take the USLME as well. I'm a first year and came into school with full expectations of taking the USLME in the future.

 

[kelminak]

Worth it? I think it's safe to assume it's just going to be an unwritten requirement. Perhaps even a written requirement before too long

This ^ I think it's safe to say that if you go to a DO school it's best to take the USLME as well. I'm a first year and came into school with full expectations of taking the USLME in the future.

I don't know the differences that well between the COMLEX and USMLE. With the merger, is there even a reason to have the different tests still? My guess is that COMLEX tests OMT stuff?

 

[IslandStyle808]

I don't know the differences that well between the COMLEX and USMLE. With the merger, is there even a reason to have the different tests still? My guess is that COMLEX tests OMT stuff?

You will still need an apples to apples comparison of candidates. It makes things much easier for residency directors to be able to see how osteopathic students do on the USMLE and compare them to the US MDs that all take the USMLE.

However, the COMLEX is still the licensing exam for all DOs. You cannot graduate medical school or practice medicine as a DO without taking all three levels of the COMLEX. So you cannot phase it out unless COCA (the DO accrediting body) is willing to do so or if COCA is absorbed by the LCME (the MD accrediting body).

 

[ATPsynthase123]

My outlook going into this merger is this...don't get greedy, be realistic, and stick to what the numbers allow. If I am genuinely interested in a specialty, and I have the board scores for it, then as long as I am not super determined to score a top residency program I should be fine. In my state, our school has more residency slots than they do residents. My state is extremely biased to favor in-state residents from their respective state medical schools. Just be open minded and realistic..this merger is not the end of the world for DOs. To me, this merger means more respect, better quality of training, and a level playing ground for all MD and DO counterparts alike.

Luckily my state and the surrounding areas have almost zero bias to DO schools. Hell, the MD program at my university is looking to hire a couple DO attendings for their family medicine residencies now.

Realistically the people that will get screwed by this is the IMGs, under performing MDs and under performing DOs. If you are a good student that prepares adequately for your major exams you'll be fine. If you have to retake COMLEX 3 times to graduate and repeat a year, then you might be hurting when it comes to residency time.


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[crazyboi1993]

I am a current DO and have no intention of specializing. I have always wanted to do Family medicine, OBGYN or Peds, and maybe internal medicine. I wanted to primary care and thats why I had no problem, with the whole DO/MD.. But I was wondering why take the USMLE then? If I can get a great score on COMLEX, will it hurt my chances of not taking USMLE?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I am a current DO and have no intention of specializing. I have always wanted to do Family medicine, OBGYN or Peds, and maybe internal medicine. I wanted to primary care and thats why I had no problem, with the whole DO/MD.. But I was wondering why take the USMLE then? If I can get a great score on COMLEX, will it hurt my chances of not taking USMLE?

It could potentially limit your list of programs that you could apply to.

 

[crazyboi1993]

It could potentially limit your list of programs that you could apply to.

The ones I have been looking at, the MD residencies, all of them say you can submit the USMLE or the COMLEX, so I'm wondering what to do.

 

[cliquesh]

The ones I have been looking at, the MD residencies, all of them say you can submit the USMLE or the COMLEX, so I'm wondering what to do.

Take the usmle. You probably don't need the usmle for family medicine, but it will help with the other specialties you mention, especially if you're hoping to match at a university program.

 

[tony101]

The merger will close. Many AOA spots once open to only DO grads will now be open to MD grads. This will increase competition for DO's for many of the surgical subspecialties and so in many ways, is not beneficial. Before the merger, DO grads could apply through ERAS for ACGME (this is equivalent to AOA, not AMA) residency spots. There are no "new" spots available for DO's because of it.

Many hospitals will prefer MD's over DO's (especially those that are academic or university affiliated and are top tier and in many surgical subspecialties).

How will this affect spots for programs such as family medicine? I actually want go into that so I wanted to know will it impact that in any way, shape or form?

 

[IslandStyle808]

How will this affect spots for programs such as family medicine? I actually want go into that so I wanted to know will it impact that in any way, shape or form?

It will have barely any noticeable impact. Family medicine is the categorical field with the most unfilled spots in the ACGME and I am pretty sure there are a lot of unfilled spots on the AOA side too. So you shouldn't sweat it for FM.