AOA and ACGME merge!!

[rodmichael82]

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"AOA and ACGME Agree to Single GME Accreditation System

Feb. 26, 2014
After months of discussion, the AOA, along with the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) and the American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine (AACOM), have agreed to a single accreditation system for graduate medical education programs in the United States.

A single graduate medical education (GME) accreditation system will evaluate and provide accountability for the competency of physician residents consistently across all GME programs. This ensures the quality and efficiency of postdoctoral education, while preserving the unique dimensions of the osteopathic medical profession and recognizing its contribution to health care in the U.S.

Under the agreement:

• From July 1, 2015 to June 30, 2020, AOA-accredited training programs will transition to ACGME recognition and accreditation.
  
  
• There will continue to be osteopathic-focused training programs under the ACGME accreditation system. Two osteopathic review committees will be developed to evaluate and set standards for the osteopathic aspects of training programs seeking osteopathic recognition.
  
  
• DOs and MDs would have access to all training programs. There will be prerequisite competencies and a recommended program of training for MD graduates who apply for entry into osteopathic-focused programs.
  
  
• AOA and AACOM will become ACGME member organizations, and each will have representation on ACGME’s board of directors.

The agreement provides the framework for the osteopathic and allopathic communities to prepare future generations of physicians with the highest quality graduate medical education and serve as a unified voice for graduate medical education resources to help mitigate the primary care physician shortage and better serve the public.

As stated in the joint press release issued today, a single GME accreditation system ensures that all physicians have access to the primary and sub-specialty training they need for the patients they want to serve. For the osteopathic medical profession, the system recognizes the unique principles and practices of DOs and their contribution to the health and well-being of all Americans."

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/Pages/ACGME-single-accreditation-system.aspx

http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-a...e-medical-education-accreditation-system.aspx

 

[Bacchus]

You MDs better start softening up those hands, you're gonna need them!

 

[evilbooyaa]

You MDs better start softening up those hands, you're gonna need them!

Haha, only if we are interested in DO residencies. (Un)luckily for me, my field of interest has no DO residency equivalent!

 

[Arkangeloid]

You MDs better start softening up those hands, you're gonna need them!

I don't understand, is this some kind of lewd joke?

 

[evilbooyaa]

I think the most important part of this, as mentioned in the Osteopathic thread, is that DO students who may have been competitive for ACGME residencies (say in stuff like uro/ophtho/ortho/etc.) will now be able to pit themselves against MD students for those residencies because of the unified match. That + the ability for fellowships to be done more reasonably, rather than having AOA and ACGME fellowships, are the two main differences compared to the old system.

I think the biases against DOs by MD PDs will still be there, and DO PDs (who have never had MD students to deal with) will bias against MDs.

 

[rodmichael82]

I think the most important part of this, as mentioned in the Osteopathic thread, is that DO students who may have been competitive for ACGME residencies (say in stuff like uro/ophtho/ortho/etc.) will now be able to pit themselves against MD students for those residencies because of the unified match. That + the ability for fellowships to be done more reasonably, rather than having AOA and ACGME fellowships, are the two main differences compared to the old system.

I think the biases against DOs by MD PDs will still be there, and DO PDs (who have never had MD students to deal with) will bias against MDs.

So it seems like the benefits lean more towards DO students. Do you think it makes a big impact for MD students?
Also the fact that they said transition will occur from 2015-2020 what does that mean? will this be implemented beginning 2015 or beginning 2020?

 

[TChapmanwvu1]

So it seems like the benefits lean more towards DO students. Do you think it makes a big impact for MD students?
Also the fact that they said transition will occur from 2015-2020 what does that mean? will this be implemented beginning 2015 or beginning 2020?

It will make more of a difference for MD students who wish to go into the very competitive residencies. With things like Derm and NeuroSurgery, any new residency helps and MDs have never been able to match to AOA Derm residencies etc (what few of them there are, but hey, there are some).

For me as a DO student, it takes some pressure of me to absolutely have to do only certain residencies for certain fellowships. The bias will still be there, to a lesser extent now, but it gives more opportunity

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

So it seems like the benefits lean more towards DO students. Do you think it makes a big impact for MD students?
Also the fact that they said transition will occur from 2015-2020 what does that mean? will this be implemented beginning 2015 or beginning 2020?

I think it will benefit both. MD students who have great scores, but fall just short of getting derm or plastics now have additional residencies to apply to.

 

[evilbooyaa]

So it seems like the benefits lean more towards DO students. Do you think it makes a big impact for MD students?
Also the fact that they said transition will occur from 2015-2020 what does that mean? will this be implemented beginning 2015 or beginning 2020?

As others have stated, the most competitive specialties have just gained a couple residency spots for MDs to apply to.

Regarding the transition, I believe that AOA programs will have 5 years to transition from AOA to the unified system. I do not know if this means that AOA residencies will all stay as AOA only until 2020, or if there will be a stepwise transition with certain programs opening their doors to MD each year. What I do know is that at least for the class of 2015, I'd be very surprised if > 10% of AOA residency programs are open for MDs to apply to.

If it's a stepwise transition, then there will have to be one match. If it's all or none, then there may be 2 matches for up to another 5 years. The extended transition time is the gray area in this agreement.

 

[rodmichael82]

Thank you guys! I'm from the class of 2016 so I was just wondering if it would have a huge impact when I apply but I guess the 2015-2020 transition statement is pretty vague.

 

[NOsaintsfan]

As others have stated, the most competitive specialties have just gained a couple residency spots for MDs to apply to.

Regarding the transition, I believe that AOA programs will have 5 years to transition from AOA to the unified system. I do not know if this means that AOA residencies will all stay as AOA only until 2020, or if there will be a stepwise transition with certain programs opening their doors to MD each year. What I do know is that at least for the class of 2015, I'd be very surprised if > 10% of AOA residency programs are open for MDs to apply to.

If it's a stepwise transition, then there will have to be one match. If it's all or none, then there may be 2 matches for up to another 5 years. The extended transition time is the gray area in this agreement.

What this means is that a 5 year period exists for current AOA residencies to meet the unified standards, ie. the ACGME standards. Some programs may be deficient in certain areas and will have to 2020 to correct those areas or face probation/loss of accreditation.

 

[hallowmann]

I don't understand, is this some kind of lewd joke?

Someone didn't get the OMM reference...

 

[Anastomoses]

Someone didn't get the OMM reference...

Right...um...what's that about? They have to give massages or something?

 

[madchemist89]

Right...um...what's that about? They have to give massages or something?

Something about aligning the spine and mystical energy fields.

 

[ulikedaggers]

You MDs better start softening up those hands, you're gonna need them!

Nah. AOA programs will melt when they see an applicant with a >200 USMLE score. 😉

 

[ShinyDome19]

I heard about this whole thing last week and I really don't understand why the ACGME would want to merge? According to their web site they already have ~9300 residency programs and through this merge they gain ~1000 DO residency programs, of which who knows how many are going to be up to their standards and not placed on probation...I really don't see the point. ACGME residency slots are likely to get flooded out by DO's if there is no limits set on the number of DO schools that can be built every other week. Theres just going to be a lot of out of work MD's and DO's in a few years.

The only thing I can come up with is that maybe most the DO residency slots are crap and go unfilled every year? Maybe if they are brought up to ACGME standards they will increase the overall residency slots? But I honestly know nothing about DO residency programs... Anyone have any ideas?

 

[ulikedaggers]

I heard about this whole thing last week and I really don't understand why the ACGME would want to merge? According to their web site they already have ~9300 residency programs and through this merge they gain ~1000 DO residency programs, of which who knows how many are going to be up to their standards and not placed on probation...I really don't see the point. ACGME residency slots are likely to get flooded out by DO's if there is no limits set on the number of DO schools that can be built every other week. Theres just going to be a lot of out of work MD's and DO's in a few years.

The only thing I can come up with is that maybe most the DO residency slots are crap and go unfilled every year? Maybe if they are brought up to ACGME standards they will increase the overall residency slots? But I honestly know nothing about DO residency programs... Anyone have any ideas?

As far as I can tell, the idea is to standardize and improve GME to ultimately benefit patients.

 

[Daodejing]

As far as I can tell, the idea is to standardize and improve GME to ultimately benefit patients.

Lol. Can't wait for this to happen!

 

[Frazier]

I heard about this whole thing last week and I really don't understand why the ACGME would want to merge? According to their web site they already have ~9300 residency programs and through this merge they gain ~1000 DO residency programs, of which who knows how many are going to be up to their standards and not placed on probation...I really don't see the point. ACGME residency slots are likely to get flooded out by DO's if there is no limits set on the number of DO schools that can be built every other week. Theres just going to be a lot of out of work MD's and DO's in a few years.

The only thing I can come up with is that maybe most the DO residency slots are crap and go unfilled every year? Maybe if they are brought up to ACGME standards they will increase the overall residency slots? But I honestly know nothing about DO residency programs... Anyone have any ideas?

If it is like most things...

Somewhere, in some way, there is money to be made.

 

[cbrons]

Overall a good thing. At a time when the substandard clinical degrees (NP, PA, etc.) gain increased legal scope of practice, it is nice to see a little MD-DO unification.

 

[spartan9]

Overall a good thing. At a time when the substandard clinical degrees (NP, PA, etc.) gain increased legal scope of practice, it is nice to see a little MD-DO unification.

Finally someone saying something of relevance rather than conjecture. One of the biggest reason these talks got underway is because of the FOREIGN and OFF SHORE trained medical students who were taking ACGME residency spots and leaving American trained students without slots or reducing the number of slots in areas of interest. That issue was impetus for these talks from the very beginning and was the primary issue that led ACGME to investigate limiting and/or restricting non American trained students from taking ACGME residencies. With all this MD DO back and forth it seems to me like shooting at the wrong target.

 

[Makati2008]

Overall a good thing. At a time when the substandard clinical degrees (NP, PA, etc.) gain increased legal scope of practice, it is nice to see a little MD-DO unification.

Agree with you about the MD-DO unification being a good thing disagree with your "substandard clinical degree" comment.....

 

[Makati2008]

Overall a good thing. At a time when the substandard clinical degrees (NP, PA, etc.) gain increased legal scope of practice, it is nice to see a little MD-DO unification.

Agree with you about the MD-DO unification being a good thing disagree with your "substandard clinical degree" comment.....

 

[evilbooyaa]

I heard about this whole thing last week and I really don't understand why the ACGME would want to merge? According to their web site they already have ~9300 residency programs and through this merge they gain ~1000 DO residency programs, of which who knows how many are going to be up to their standards and not placed on probation...I really don't see the point. ACGME residency slots are likely to get flooded out by DO's if there is no limits set on the number of DO schools that can be built every other week. Theres just going to be a lot of out of work MD's and DO's in a few years.

The only thing I can come up with is that maybe most the DO residency slots are crap and go unfilled every year? Maybe if they are brought up to ACGME standards they will increase the overall residency slots? But I honestly know nothing about DO residency programs... Anyone have any ideas?

Because the ACGME now has a 100% monopoly on all GME. AOA is sending delegates to join the ACGME board of directors, not the other way around. Now ACGME has all the money.

Makati - I know you used to be a PA. I imagine what cbrons is saying is that the training in NP/PA programs is not the same as it is for MD/DO physicians. I imagine that is why you went back to medical school.

 

[Makati2008]

Because the ACGME now has a 100% monopoly on all GME. AOA is sending delegates to join the ACGME board of directors, not the other way around. Now ACGME has all the money.

Makati - I know you used to be a PA. I imagine what cbrons is saying is that the training in NP/PA programs is not the same as it is for MD/DO physicians. I imagine that is why you went back to medical school.

You would be correct as to why I went back but also was irritated by the disrespectful physicians as well and couldn't imagine being 50 and having no voice.

Also, I no longer have a dog in that fight but feel like we should show some respect to our mid level colleagues although there are areas(the NP independence push) that I disagree with and hope this new unification can help at least slow( if not totally stop) its proliferation.

 

[cbrons]

Under the agreement:

• DOs and MDs would have access to all training programs. There will be prerequisite competencies and a recommended program of training for MD graduates who apply for entry into osteopathic-focused programs.

Training program in what, exactly? I missed this on my first read through but this sounds like rubbish to me. You mean to tell me MD grads who match into former DO programs for urology, peds, etc. are going to have to undergo additional training? Presumably this would be in OMM or something (which is fraudulent and non-evidence-based and shouldn't be forced on DO students much less MD students), but could there be more that would be required?

 

[evilbooyaa]

You would be correct as to why I went back but also was irritated by the disrespectful physicians as well and couldn't imagine being 50 and having no voice.

Also, I no longer have a dog in that fight but feel like we should show some respect to our mid level colleagues although there are areas(the NP independence push) that I disagree with and hope this new unification can help at least slow( if not totally stop) its proliferation.

I agree with the bolded. I haven't heard of PAs pushing for fully independent, unsupervised practice.

That being said, I see no reason that this will affect mid-level creep onto MD/DO territory.

 

[DrEnderW]

Training program in what, exactly? I missed this on my first read through but this sounds like rubbish to me. You mean to tell me MD grads who match into former DO programs for urology, peds, etc. are going to have to undergo additional training? Presumably this would be in OMM or something (which is fraudulent and non-evidence-based and shouldn't be forced on DO students much less MD students), but could there be more that would be required?

Agree on OMM being non-evidence based.

However, just don't apply to those residencies if you don't like the requirements just like you didn't apply and accept an offer at a DO school. It wouldn't affect you in any way. The OMM component will not be going away.

 

[HarryPlopper]

ACGME residency slots are likely to get flooded out by DO's if there is no limits set on the number of DO schools that can be built every other week. Theres just going to be a lot of out of work MD's and DO's in a few years.

The only thing I can come up with is that maybe most the DO residency slots are crap and go unfilled every year? Maybe if they are brought up to ACGME standards they will increase the overall residency slots? But I honestly know nothing about DO residency programs... Anyone have any ideas?

Many DOs are already applying for allopathic residencies but in certain specialties, they face an enormous bias. Yes, this will create more competition for MDs but programs (provided they become more inviting toward DOs) now have a better pool of applicants. MDs can also apply for osteopathic programs as well for specific reasons such as location.

There are many excellent DO residencies but there is a huge number of DO residencies that shouldn't be accredited. The ACGME standards will weed out the terrible residencies.

 

[ulikedaggers]

Many DOs are already applying for allopathic residencies but in certain specialties, they face an enormous bias. Yes, this will create more competition for MDs but programs (provided they become more inviting toward DOs) now have a better pool of applicants. MDs can also apply for osteopathic programs as well for specific reasons such as location.

There are many excellent DO residencies but there is a huge number of DO residencies that shouldn't be accredited. The ACGME standards will weed out the terrible residencies.

I'm not sure I agree with this. I'm not exactly sure of the numbers, but aren't there something like 5k DO graduates per year and 2900 AOA residency spots per year? That means there are already ~2000 DOs going to ACGME programs (obviously excluding DOs who do not match at all). I assume that most of those 2k are strong applicants who were confident enough to forego the AOA match. Now if we look at this purely statistically, half of all applicants are average or below average, so that's 2500. Assuming, again, that most of the 2000 ACGME matching DOs are strong applicants, that leaves only 500 "new" strong applicants in the MD program pool. It also adds 2500 "new" average to below average applicants.

 

[username456789]

The ACGME standards will weed out the terrible residencies.

Potentially decreasing the number of residency spots and thus physicians each year . . .

Unless existing residencies expand . . .

 

[ulikedaggers]

Potentially decreasing the number of residency spots and thus physicians each year . . .

Unless existing residencies expand . . .

What's worse?
Fewer physicians, but all trained to ACGME standards.
More physicians, some trained by programs that the ACGME would deem sub-par.

Just curious. I don't know where I stand on the question.

 

[HarryPlopper]

I'm not sure I agree with this. I'm not exactly sure of the numbers, but aren't there something like 5k DO graduates per year and 2900 AOA residency spots per year? That means there are already ~2000 DOs going to ACGME programs (obviously excluding DOs who do not match at all). I assume that most of those 2k are strong applicants who were confident enough to forego the AOA match. Now if we look at this purely statistically, half of all applicants are average or below average, so that's 2500. Assuming, again, that most of the 2000 ACGME matching DOs are strong applicants, that leaves only 500 "new" strong applicants in the MD program pool. It also adds 2500 "new" average to below average applicants.

No those 2k include people who tried for very competitive specialties like ortho or urology but didn't get match AOA and thus go ACGME.

When I said that programs get a better pool of applicants, I meant they have more choices of good candidates out there from the DO side. Good programs can become better with the larger influx of DO applicants. The overall pool, well, let's not get into that.

 

[username456789]

What's worse?
Fewer physicians, but all trained to ACGME standards.
More physicians, some trained by programs that the ACGME would deem sub-par.

Just curious. I don't know where I stand on the question.

I'm not saying closing "substandard" programs is bad (although maybe rehabbing them would be better if possible), but if anyone wants to continue hyping the whole "physician shortage" thing, this would be a step in the wrong direction.

 

[ulikedaggers]

No those 2k include people who tried for very competitive specialties like ortho or urology but didn't get match AOA and thus go ACGME.

I hadn't thought of this. Good point.

When I said that programs get a better pool of applicants, I meant they have more choices of good candidates out there from the DO side. Good programs can become better with the larger influx of DO applicants. The overall pool, well, let's not get into that.

Yeah that's true too. Hopefully things works out for everyone.

 

[HarryPlopper]

Potentially decreasing the number of residency spots and thus physicians each year . . .

Unless existing residencies expand . . .

I believe there are many DO residencies that go unfilled every year. I don't believe there are shortages of overall spots in AOA.

The reason why I say weeding the terrible residencies out is good is because subpar medicine practiced by incompetent DOs from bad residencies tarnishes the DO name. I believe DOs are equal to MDs; it's only fair that their medicine is as so.

EDIT: Clarification

 

[DrEnderW]

I'm not sure I agree with this. I'm not exactly sure of the numbers, but aren't there something like 5k DO graduates per year and 2900 AOA residency spots per year? That means there are already ~2000 DOs going to ACGME programs (obviously excluding DOs who do not match at all). I assume that most of those 2k are strong applicants who were confident enough to forego the AOA match. Now if we look at this purely statistically, half of all applicants are average or below average, so that's 2500. Assuming, again, that most of the 2000 ACGME matching DOs are strong applicants, that leaves only 500 "new" strong applicants in the MD program pool. It also adds 2500 "new" average to below average applicants.

I think there's definitely some truth to what you're saying. However, many of the most competitive DO students purposefully forgo the ACGME match for a more sure AOA match in competitive specialties. Away rotations and communication between PDs and applicants is more common in the AOA world and it's way easier to gauge your chance of matching compared to the mass apps without rotating in the ACGME match (in addition to DO bias obviously). You also don't have to be a strong applicant to match mid or low tier peds, IM, psych, or FM as an MD or DO so I think this idea only partially holds true.

 

[Wordead]

Many DOs are already applying for allopathic residencies but in certain specialties, they face an enormous bias. Yes, this will create more competition for MDs but programs (provided they become more inviting toward DOs) now have a better pool of applicants. MDs can also apply for osteopathic programs as well for specific reasons such as location.

There are many excellent DO residencies but there is a huge number of DO residencies that shouldn't be accredited. The ACGME standards will weed out the terrible residencies.

In theory this will be the case, but unfortunately I'd bet my left nut that the specialties that have shut out DOs to date will continue to do so. ACGME/LCME/whatever is not going to affect how program directors think for a long time to come.

 

[spartan9]

I believe there are many DO residencies that go unfilled every year. I don't believe there are shortages of overall spots in AOA.

The reason why I say weeding the terrible residencies out is good is because subpar medicine practiced by incompetent DOs from bad residencies tarnishes the DO name. I believe DOs are equal to MDs; it's only fair that their medicine is as so.

EDIT: Clarification

This is EXTREMELY well said. The fact of the matter is that 89% (per First Aid) of DO 1st time test takers passed USMLE step 1 in 2011 compared to 94% from the allopathic schools in the same year. Thus, if there was such an extreme difference in quality of student or quality of education this figure would be vastly different. Now do MD students score higher on the same exam as a whole and are the quality of the MD institutions better as a whole? No question about it. But the reality is the exam is a licensing test that at the very minimum tests the competency of a medical student as of their initial two years of medical study and deems them either competent or incompetent to that point in their medical education. 89% of first time DO test takers were deemed competent. Point being that the vast majority of American trained medical students reach the same minimum level of competency necessary by the end of their second year of school and the quality of GME should also be standardized as this agreement does such that by the end of our training a similar competency level is maintained.

 

[HarryPlopper]

In theory this will be the case, but unfortunately I'd bet my left nut that the specialties that have shut out DOs to date will continue to do so. ACGME/LCME/whatever is not going to affect how program directors think for a long time to come.

Yes I agree. I've mentioned it in a couple other threads about this concern. The question now is not whether will there still be discrimination, but rather how much discrimination will there be and how much from either side.

 

[Yoyomama88]

Applications to residency for the class of 2015 are submitted in 2014, so will this merger apply for the Class of 2015?

 

[notbobtrustme]

What's worse?
Fewer physicians, but all trained to ACGME standards.
More physicians, some trained by programs that the ACGME would deem sub-par.

Just curious. I don't know where I stand on the question.

Well, there are some well known ACGME residencies that are basically crap but they still exist. Of course, AMDs avoid them like the plague precisely because they are crap. So by itself, ACGME is not a precise measure of quality.

That said, this is a neutral for US MDs and a net gain for DOs. It just saddens me that an organization like COCA can get away with irresponsible behavior in opening tons of new medical schools when the AOA didn't have enough residency spots for them. This alone proves that the DO community doesn't really care about the DO philosophy, because they don't care about sending more than half of their graduates to the "dark side." I mean, Liberty University (aka dinosaur fossils are a lie put in the ground by the devil and the world is 6k years old) has a ****ing DO school. DeVry University has a DO school. Do you really think these students are competing with even the lowest tier of MD graduates? Of course not. Most DOs will still be less competitive than MDs across the board. What this does is alleviate the burden on the AOA for taking a fat dump on the DO brand.

 

[ulikedaggers]

Well, there are some well known ACGME residencies that are basically crap but they still exist. Of course, AMDs avoid them like the plague precisely because they are crap. So by itself, ACGME is not a precise measure of quality.

That said, this is a neutral for US MDs and a net gain for DOs. It just saddens me that an organization like COCA can get away with irresponsible behavior in opening tons of new medical schools when the AOA didn't have enough residency spots for them. This alone proves that the DO community doesn't really care about the DO philosophy, because they don't care about sending more than half of their graduates to the "dark side." I mean, Liberty University (aka dinosaur fossils are a lie put in the ground by the devil and the world is 6k years old) has a ******* DO school. DeVry University has a DO school. Do you really think these students are competing with even the lowest tier of MD graduates? Of course not. Most DOs will still be less competitive than MDs across the board. What this does is alleviate the burden on the AOA for taking a fat dump on the DO brand.

Now, now, a med student is a med student is a med student. Lest we offend anyone.

 

[Gastrapathy]

This was a total capitulation by the AOA. 2 seats on the board isn't enough to change anything. The ACGME site visits and institutional requirements are very very specific and the AOA residencies will need every bit of 5 years to get ready. 2020-2022 will be entertaining but by then the AOA won't really exist as an accreditation body.

This has nothing to do with student quality. The ACGME won't care who the studs are. The small AOA programs will find meeting the program requirements very hard. From scholarly activity to QI/PI to procedure volumes, the ACGME won't make it easy.
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[Gastrapathy]

It's not the typical allopathic stud who will now apply to osteopathic residencies, it's the IMGs. These programs will get flooded with IMG apps once the word gets out that they are eligible and potentially less competitive.


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[spartan9]

Well, there are some well known ACGME residencies that are basically crap but they still exist. Of course, AMDs avoid them like the plague precisely because they are crap. So by itself, ACGME is not a precise measure of quality.

That said, this is a neutral for US MDs and a net gain for DOs. It just saddens me that an organization like COCA can get away with irresponsible behavior in opening tons of new medical schools when the AOA didn't have enough residency spots for them. This alone proves that the DO community doesn't really care about the DO philosophy, because they don't care about sending more than half of their graduates to the "dark side." I mean, Liberty University (aka dinosaur fossils are a lie put in the ground by the devil and the world is 6k years old) has a ******* DO school. DeVry University has a DO school. Do you really think these students are competing with even the lowest tier of MD graduates? Of course not. Most DOs will still be less competitive than MDs across the board. What this does is alleviate the burden on the AOA for taking a fat dump on the DO brand.

I'm not sure where all this finger pointing and name calling gets anyone. Unless I'm mistaken SUNY upstate was recently put on probation because of a cheating scandal that spanned 100 students and teaching methods that were substandard and inconsistent with LCME regulations and standards. My point is not to bemoan a school its that issues within medical education are pervasive and not exclusive to DO institutions. At the end of the day individual institutions regardless of affiliation make their own name and create their own quality, good or bad. The same is true for individual people and they should be judged as such regardless of where they were trained. The people who are driven, dedicated and truly passionate about medical education are going to be apparent immediately to anyone evaluating them regardless of their background, and the opposite will also be true.

 

[spartan9]

It's not the typical allopathic stud who will now apply to osteopathic residencies, it's the IMGs. These programs will get flooded with IMG apps once the word gets out that they are eligible and potentially less competitive.


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Actually the impetus for these talks to begin with was the issue of IMGs taking ACGME residency spots and the ACGME looking to restrict and even eliminate IMG infiltration into ACGME residencies. There's no chance that has changed since the MOU considering that was the original purpose of the ACGME restructure and since qualified AOA programs will be absorbed by the ACGME that same preclusion will apply for IMGs, ultimately leading to more residency slots for American trained medical students.

 

[Gastrapathy]

Huh? They are specifically included in General FAQ from the original link. The ACGME and the Match are separate organizations and don't really talk all that well. I favor a 2 stage Canadian style match but that isn't on the table for now.


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[spartan9]

Huh? They are specifically included in General FAQ from the original link. The ACGME and the Match are separate organizations and don't really talk all that well. I favor a 2 stage Canadian style match but that isn't on the table for now.


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Right, what I am saying is that the discussions between the AOA and ACGME ultimately began because the ACGME was investigating a restructure of the amount of IMGs who were going to be allowed to enter ACGME residencies. The ACGME was looking into revamping the percentages and amounts of slots available and as a result the AOA reached out to the ACGME seeking to form a joint agreement and be included in the revamp and ultimately the MOU is what was born, died, and resurrected, haha.

 

[Gastrapathy]

But in the short term, absent new restrictions that are not in place as part of this agreement, the IMG wave will flow over the AOA residencies.


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