AOA Board of Pediatrics vs American Board of Pediatrics

[jay1234]

I'm just curious, do most DO's and MD's know that the AOA Board of Pediatrics is equivalent to the ABMS' American Board of Pediatrics, especially for people in general pediatrics? It also offers subspecialty certification in neonatology and allergy/immunology for those in those subspecialties. I understand for those in other specialties, it may not be a viable option because it lacks your subspecialty certification, but for those of you who are general pediatrics bound, why not take this test and be board certified? Especially if you have taken the ABP test several times. It's now open to all MD's and DO's since the merger and the OCC is very similar to MOC. Instead of having a 25% percent chance of failing peds boards, why not take a test that is designed by pediatricians for pediatricians? It is time to end the ABP monopoly. It is absurd that the general peds exam pass rate is less than 80% year after year. AOA board certification is protected by law as equivalent to ABMS. Also there is barely any OMM on the test. Like 4 questions out of 400. You can take it before in May before you graduate residency, and you get your score in about a month.

AOA Osteopathic Board Certification in Pediatrics

Learn how to earn and maintain AOA osteopathic pediatrics primary and subspecialty certification. AOBP certification exams are offered each fall.

certification.osteopathic.org

dropping this gem here for those MD's and DO's who may have taken the ABP and want a better alternative

Would love to hear others' perspectives

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[DO2015CA]

As a DO who took and passed both first time, I agree. AOBP test was to the level I would expect a gen peds to know. ABP had way too many subspecialty targeted questions.

 

[calvinhobbes]

My partner took the AOBP and has never had any trouble with a job. Insurers don’t care. One of her jobs once asked her for proof of board certification, and she submitted the AOA board certification, and the job said “Oh great, we didn’t know Peds has that, most of our FM and IM docs are board certified with the AOA!” So jobs really don’t care and plenty of other docs in different specialties take an AOA test.

It is illegal for any job to deny you initial or renewal employment opportunities/hospital privileges/etc for having an AOA board certification. They are equivalent to ABMS and MDs can take an AOA board exam if they want to.

I have another friend who was hired by a peds private practice and they had asked her if she was board certified, and she said yes. After she was hired and contracts were signed, they wanted a copy of the board certification. She submitted the AOBP certification. The job said “that’s not ABP like the other doctors, please submit that one or we can’t hire you.” Well, the AOA lawyers got involved (free to use as it is illegal to discriminate against DOs), and in less than a day the job apologized and said “Welcome Dr. XYZ!” Turns out the job didn’t even know the AOBP existed. This situation is rare though.

So, yes, definitely a valid and legitimate exam and even the ABP lists it as an official board certification that they recognize (because they have to do):

General ABP FAQs | The American Board of Pediatrics

Below are the answers to some questions that we often receive. If you don't see a question that you think is important, please submit an FAQ to the ABP Communications team.

www.abp.org

Is the American Board of Pediatrics the only organization that certifies pediatricians?​

The American Osteopathic Board of Pediatricians also certifies pediatricians. Also, a doctor treating children may also be certified in another field, such as Family Medicine. Subspecialists (including allergists and immunologists) may be certified by other boards, too, but most physicians treating children are certified by the American Board of Pediatrics.

 

[Ravizzle]

I'm a DO. Took AOBP only because my program paid for it. Don't plan on ever renewing it or paying another penny to the AOA. It's a joke of an exam. I feel like any pgy 2 in peds could prob pass it without any studying.

Yes legally it probably is considered equivalent, but in reality it is nowhere near the level of ABP. I guess it's a great option for someone who couldn't pass ABP on multiple tries. I'm glad there's an option for someone in that situation.

I know a test on its own doesn't define how good a pediatrician is, but it wouldn't inspire confidence for me personally to take my child to someone who couldn't after multiple tries pass the board certification test for the major body of their specialty. Most people probably don't know or care what board certifications their doctor has, so prob won't affect the pediatrician much in real world practice, just my personal take that I wouldn't take my child to that pediatrician.

That being said, I do agree that the ABP has it's own issues and is very difficult and they need to change the curve on the exam to have a pass rate closer to the 90% mark like other specialties have.

Also anyone planning on doing a fellowship should take ABP, as you will likely need ABP to sit for your subspecialty boards.

 

[DO2015CA]

I'm a DO. Took AOBP only because my program paid for it. Don't plan on ever renewing it or paying another penny to the AOA. It's a joke of an exam. I feel like any pgy 2 in peds could prob pass it without any studying.

Yes legally it probably is considered equivalent, but in reality it is nowhere near the level of ABP. I guess it's a great option for someone who couldn't pass ABP on multiple tries. I'm glad there's an option for someone in that situation.

I know a test on its own doesn't define how good a pediatrician is, but it wouldn't inspire confidence for me personally to take my child to someone who couldn't after multiple tries pass the board certification test for the major body of their specialty. Most people probably don't know or care what board certifications their doctor has, so prob won't affect the pediatrician much in real world practice, just my personal take that I wouldn't take my child to that pediatrician.

That being said, I do agree that the ABP has it's own issues and is very difficult and they need to change the curve on the exam to have a pass rate closer to the 90% mark like other specialties have.

Also anyone planning on doing a fellowship should take ABP, as you will likely need ABP to sit for your subspecialty boards.

I disagree. It’s a test geared towards gen peds. ABP test is way more difficult than what would make a good gen peds person. No general pediatrician will be utilizing a decent amount of the material. Most of it is not going to affect a general pediatrician. I absolutely would take my children to AOBP certified pediatricians.

 

[Ravizzle]

Why do DOs talk trash about their own organization that gave them a chance. Let’s be honest bud, you wouldn’t be a doctor if it wasn’t for the AOA. I’m glad you think the ABP is a great test but a failure rate of 22% when every other board pass rate is >90% is nothing to be proud of. There are plenty of great test takers who you wouldn’t want anywhere near your kid in clinical practice. If you have an issue with aoa board cert you shouldn’t write the letters DO after your name….

I think it's important to be critical of every organization. We can do better. I'm proud to be a DO, and I think myself and my DO colleagues are just as capable as our MD counter parts and we can truly and objectively demonstrate that, by taking tests that are equivalent to our MD counter parts. The "MD" organizations and tests aren't perfect either and there is a good argument and reasons to be critical of those as well.

The AOA having a ****ty test doesn't absolve the ABP. There is significant room for change with that test as well. I agree that something needs to be done with that board pass rate.

We need to be critical of both organizations.

I also do agree that passing a test doesn't mean someone is good clinically, someone could be great clinically and just not be a good test taker. It shouldn't define who you are. But we have these board certification exams as an objective measure to determine some sort of minimum competency in our field, so it's reasonable to want someone taking care of your child to have that.

I'm going to continue to happily write DO after my name. Will also happily add the FAAP after it as well.

I'd rather it be me, a DO that is critical of my own institutions and demand we be better, rather than someone else who does it out of malice. I'm not going to sing false praises of some organization just because I'm associated with them.

 

[calvinhobbes]

Great points Ravizzle and DO2015CA. My partner says the same thing. As for the AOBP test, it actually wasn’t an “easy” test at all, it was actually quite difficult in certain gen peds areas. It focused more on NICU, immunizations, development, genetics, infectious disease, etc, stuff a gen peds person should know if they work in outpatient, nursery, inpatient, etc. She said compared to the ABP test, the AOBP test was more fair because it didn’t ask random and esoteric questions that even sub-specialists have a hard time answering. The AOA as an organization isn’t perfect, sure, but doesn’t mean the ABP is 100% the best quality. Most pediatricians who take the ABP probably couldn’t pass it again in a few years, it’s a crappy test that’s too difficult because it tests random facts instead of general knowledge. AOBP exam tests what a general pediatrician should know.

By the way, many, many pediatricians fail the ABP test, and many of us as kids have seen pediatricians who failed a test—did we really get worse care? I think not. Many pediatric Program Directors have even failed the ABP test! Also, many, many FM doctors who are DOs take the AOA exam, are you saying you wouldn’t seek treatment from an FM AOA certified doc? In the grand scheme of things these silly tests don’t matter at all, it’s how good you practice and how dedicated you are to your patients. The conversation we should be really having is, how to prevent NPs with little training who call themselves “doctor” and say they passed a “board exam,” from taking our jobs. Please stop the anti-DO rhetoric, especially since you’re a DO. Just because the ABP test may be more “prestigious” (and who cares anyways? Lol. It’s a $1,000 more expensive, too) doesn’t mean it’s better. It’s like saying people who took the ACT instead of the SAT in high-school are inferior. Who cares lol. And these days for many Ivy League colleges the SAT is now optional 😂).

And an AOBP certified pediatrician also can add FAAP after their name, by the way, as they are also granted entry into the academy. 🙂

 

[Ravizzle]

I disagree. It’s a test geared towards gen peds. ABP test is way more difficult than what would make a good gen peds person. No general pediatrician will be utilizing a decent amount of the material. Most of it is not going to affect a general pediatrician. I absolutely would take my children to AOBP certified pediatricians.

That's a fair take on the matter. And I appreciate you respectfully disagreeing without attacking me personally for my opinion.

My AOBP exam was so poorly written, had very outdated questions. I think there is a lot of room for improvement in this exam. The AOA if wanting to be taken seriously needs to do better.

In the end, most consumers aren't really aware or care what certifications their physician has.

Legally, the two tests are equivalent.

The ABP is the more challenging exam. The AOBP is the easier exam. The ideal exam would be somewhere in between the difficulty level of both.

With the ABP being the major board organization in our specialty I would argue that it would be best to have them make changes and improve the pass rate and continue to be the default exam that people take, instead of trying to find some alternative easier way out.

 

[DO2015CA]

That's a fair take on the matter. And I appreciate you respectfully disagreeing without attacking me personally for my opinion.

My AOBP exam was so poorly written, had very outdated questions. I think there is a lot of room for improvement in this exam. The AOA if wanting to be taken seriously needs to do better.

In the end, most consumers aren't really aware or care what certifications their physician has.

Legally, the two tests are equivalent.

The ABP is the more challenging exam. The AOBP is the easier exam. The ideal exam would be somewhere in between the difficulty level of both.

With the ABP being the major board organization in our specialty I would argue that it would be best to have them make changes and improve the pass rate and continue to be the default exam that people take, instead of trying to find some alternative easier way out.

I think those are fair points. I am an anti monopoly person at heart so that biases my view on keeping AOBP around and making it a true alternative rather than only if one fails ABP multiple times. My AOBP test did have some issues but not nearly to the degree of comlex. You are a little ahead of me so maybe they are working towards improving it since you took the test. On another note, hearing from newer students, the comlex has also improved since we took it.

 

[jay1234]

That's a fair take on the matter. And I appreciate you respectfully disagreeing without attacking me personally for my opinion.

My AOBP exam was so poorly written, had very outdated questions. I think there is a lot of room for improvement in this exam. The AOA if wanting to be taken seriously needs to do better.

In the end, most consumers aren't really aware or care what certifications their physician has.

Legally, the two tests are equivalent.

The ABP is the more challenging exam. The AOBP is the easier exam. The ideal exam would be somewhere in between the difficulty level of both.

With the ABP being the major board organization in our specialty I would argue that it would be best to have them make changes and improve the pass rate and continue to be the default exam that people take, instead of trying to find some alternative easier way out.

I don’t think there is such thing as a default exam. Both exams are considered equivalent under the acgme and ama. I think what people to fail to realize is the ABMS and ACGME are not the same organization. They have nothing to do with each other. One credentials residencies and the other certifies physicians.

If you consider Aobp peds cert second rate then I’d imagine you also think this for all other AOA speciality boards as well. I don’t think it’s fair to say that one exam is better than the other based on an anecdotal experience of one one person. I like being a DO and while the AOA has its issues like all other organizations DO, I appreciate it that it provided me a place to sit at the table.

I also know people who took just comlex and not usmle and now that they have abms cert they talk negative about the AOA. Stop perpetuating stigma against your own profession. Just my opinion.

 

[Ravizzle]

I don’t think there is such thing as a default exam. Both exams are considered equivalent under the acgme and ama. I think what people to fail to realize is the ABMS and ACGME are not the same organization. They have nothing to do with each other. One credentials residencies and the other certifies physicians.

If you consider Aobp peds cert second rate then I’d imagine you also think this for all other AOA speciality boards as well. I don’t think it’s fair to say that one exam is better than the other based on an anecdotal experience of one one person. I like being a DO and while the AOA has its issues like all other organizations DO, I appreciate it that it provided me a place to sit at the table.

I also know people who took just comlex and not usmle and now that they have abms cert they talk negative about the AOA. Stop perpetuating stigma against your own profession. Just my opinion.

I think being critical of the governing body is important. To be silent and not demand better because it perpetuates a stigma isn't going to make the stigma go away. If we truly want the stigma to go away we need to show that we aren't taking some inferior or easier exam. I think we DOs are more than capable of passing such exams.

Both exams are legally equivalent. That's not in question here. I'm just calling a spade a spade. AOBP is the easier exam.

And ABP deserves criticism too. We should be just as vocal about the abysmal pass rate and nit picky minutia they test on their exam. And in threads about ABP I believe those points are brought up. That needs to be improved as well.

 

[DO2015CA]

I don’t think there is such thing as a default exam. Both exams are considered equivalent under the acgme and ama. I think what people to fail to realize is the ABMS and ACGME are not the same organization. They have nothing to do with each other. One credentials residencies and the other certifies physicians.

If you consider Aobp peds cert second rate then I’d imagine you also think this for all other AOA speciality boards as well. I don’t think it’s fair to say that one exam is better than the other based on an anecdotal experience of one one person. I like being a DO and while the AOA has its issues like all other organizations DO, I appreciate it that it provided me a place to sit at the table.

I also know people who took just comlex and not usmle and now that they have abms cert they talk negative about the AOA. Stop perpetuating stigma against your own profession. Just my opinion.

There are plenty of people that think AOA for every specialty is 2nd rate regardless. These are the older MDs mostly or elitist but it does still exist

 

[DO2015CA]

I think being critical of the governing body is important. To be silent and not demand better because it perpetuates a stigma isn't going to make the stigma go away. If we truly want the stigma to go away we need to show that we aren't taking some inferior or easier exam. I think we DOs are more than capable of passing such exams.

Both exams are legally equivalent. That's not in question here. I'm just calling a spade a spade. AOBP is the easier exam.

And ABP deserves criticism too. We should be just as vocal about the abysmal pass rate and nit picky minutia they test on their exam. And in threads about ABP I believe those points are brought up. That needs to be improved as well.

AOBP will be easier if ABP tests more information than what a gen peds person should know. I think AOBP is perceived as easier because it holds the standard of gen peds knowledge. On ABP I think I got 1 vaccine question but 3-4 heme onc questions that tested the histology and further treatment. I think gen peds knowing that something is wrong and to refer is more important than knowing that kinda information. Devils advocate is if you don’t know something exists it can’t be on your differential but the true answer is a balance in between.

 

[calvinhobbes]

There are plenty of people that think AOA for every specialty is 2nd rate regardless. These are the older MDs mostly or elitist but it does still exist

True haha but tell that to the people who did AOA Derm or Ortho residency, they def know their stuff!!

 

[DO2015CA]

True haha but tell that to the people who did AOA Derm or Ortho residency, they def know their stuff!!

I think for everyone they do though (mostly). I feel like it’s remnant bias from when we were at odds. Everyone at this point of achievement is aiming to be the best not just bare minimums lol. BC is a minimum standard after all. Everyone should and does strive for more. But to be BC, you have showed you meet the bare minimum for your specialty to safely practice and I think AOBP meets that standard. I think ABP goes above and beyond to hold test takers to a higher standard than what I’d expect from a general pediatrician let alone minimum standard for safety lol.

 

[calvinhobbes]

I think for everyone they do though (mostly). I feel like it’s remnant bias from when we were at odds. Everyone at this point of achievement is aiming to be the best not just bare minimums lol. BC is a minimum standard after all. Everyone should and does strive for more. But to be BC, you have showed you meet the bare minimum for your specialty to safely practice and I think AOBP meets that standard. I think ABP goes above and beyond to hold test takers to a higher standard than what I’d expect from a general pediatrician let alone minimum standard for safety lol.

Yeah lol. My friend in child neuro took the ABP test and said the neuro questions all had like three answers to them and it came down to eeny, meeny, miny, moe 😂