AOA Medical Honor Society

[intheworkings]

How much does AOA help in matching? Can it make up for a lower Step 1 score? Thanks!

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[eteshoe]

My impression was that it can't really make up for lower step score (though I'm not sure how low you're implying).

 

[SurfingDoctor]

I'll tell you, when I see it on applications, I just keep on reading and don't really mind it. But that's just me. It's a whole package that sells an applicant, not one specific piece.

 

[Doctor-S]

It doesn't help ... and it does not compensate for a lower Step 1 score because we evaluate the whole package deal. Actually, to be truthful, I have noticed that some AOA members don't volunteer that information (whether they have high Step 1 scores, average Step 1 scores, or low Step 1 scores) due to modesty. So, we wouldn't even know who they are, without looking at the AOA membership directory.

 

[Señor S]

It doesn't help ...

Speak for yourself m8.

 

[Dires]

You can believe a bunch of anecdotes. You could decide to be modest (an absolute *****) and not include it on your app. OR... You could can check the charting outcomes.

AOA Match rates:
Anesth: 100%
Child neuro: 100%
Derm: 89% (versus 66%)
Rads: 99%
EM: 98%
Gen Surg: 98% (versus 83%)
IM: 100%
IM/Peds: 98%
Neuro surg: 93% (versus 75%)
Neuro: 100%
OBGYN: 99%
Ortho: 97% (versus 77%)
ENT: 87% (versus 70%)
Path: 100%
Peds: 99%
PMR: 100%
Plastics: 87% (versus 64%)
Psych: 100%
Rad onc: 99%
Vascular: 100%

It doesn't make up for a low step score. AOA is a huge plus, but that is likely because it is undoubtedly highly correlated with at the very least top 25% rank and high grades. Also, I'd guess that applicants with low step scores and AOA are not common.

If you are of the type to believe that AOA has no impact, than you must admit that it is an indicator for a successful match in competitive fields.

 

[Señor S]

Nm

 

[username456789]

It doesn't help ... and it does not compensate for a lower Step 1 score because we evaluate the whole package deal. Actually, to be truthful, I have noticed that some AOA members don't volunteer that information (whether they have high Step 1 scores, average Step 1 scores, or low Step 1 scores) due to modesty. So, we wouldn't even know who they are, without looking at the AOA membership directory.

This post likely does not represent reality for most.

AOA can absolutely help, and usually does. It's a feather in your cap, and for some specialties it matters more.

A friend of mine who interviewed with me at one Derm program said afterwards that he was asked flat out "so why aren't you AOA?" by an interviewer. In Derm, at least, it's almost expected (although about half of successful matchees are not AOA).

I seriously doubt that many/any people are intentionally leaving off their AOA status when submitting ERAS. So it's clear as day who is and isn't.....you don't need to go look it up in the directory.

 

[username456789]

Saying categorically "It doesn't help"is obviously *****ic.

And yet that's basically what you did.

 

[Milotic]

Call it full of confounding variables, but the AOA members of medical schools generally have amazing match results. Especially when it comes to "low tier medical schools" matching people at Johns Hopkins, MGH, and the like, that student was usually AOA.

The reason I say confounding is because most AOA students tend to do very well on their Step 1 anyway be it due to hard work or just being brilliant.

 

[Cognovi]

You can believe a bunch of anecdotes. You could decide to be modest (an absolute *****) and not include it on your app. OR... You could can check the charting outcomes.

AOA Match rates:
Anesth: 100%
Child neuro: 100%
Derm: 89% (versus 66%)
Rads: 99%
EM: 98%
Gen Surg: 98% (versus 83%)
IM: 100%
IM/Peds: 98%
Neuro surg: 93% (versus 75%)
Neuro: 100%
OBGYN: 99%
Ortho: 97% (versus 77%)
ENT: 87% (versus 70%)
Path: 100%
Peds: 99%
PMR: 100%
Plastics: 87% (versus 64%)
Psych: 100%
Rad onc: 99%
Vascular: 100%

It doesn't make up for a low step score. AOA is a huge plus, but that is likely because it is undoubtedly highly correlated with at the very least top 25% rank and high grades. Also, I'd guess that applicants with low step scores and AOA are not common.

If you are of the type to believe that AOA has no impact, than you must admit that it is an indicator for a successful match in competitive fields.

Yes. You can look at the outcomes and you can also ask what PDs think. When surveyed, PDs care about AOA more than your extracurriculars and research. They care that you got high clinical grades and that you outperform your peers in general. www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/PD-Survey-Report-2014.pdf

 

[Señor S]

And yet that's basically what you did.

I did?

 

[username456789]

I did?

No, I mistook Senor S for Doctor S.

Carry on.

 

[SurfingDoctor]

There is no doubt that being AOA helps, but Step exam scores are based on all applicants, not just ones from an individual institution. Further Step scores have been shown to correlate with specialty board pass rates. Board pass rates are far more important to PDs than who did well in medical school.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693694/

Though I would imagine the number of applicants who are AOA and have low Step scores is small, in the end, Step scores are far more important.

 

[Señor S]

There is no doubt that being AOA helps, but Step exam scores are based on all applicants, not just ones from an individual institution. Further Step scores have been shown to correlate with specialty board pass rates. Board pass rates are far more important to PDs than who did well in medical school.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3693694/

Though I would imagine the number of applicants who are AOA and have low Step scores is small, in the end, Step scores are far more important.

Totally agree. Given the choice I would much rather have a high Step 1 than be AOA. And I don't think you can really quantify the effect AOA has on matching because it's awarded based on grades/steps/research/whatever; my guess is that people who have the credentials for AOA but don't get it probably match similarly to those who do have it.

But it's a nice credential, and it counts for something (at least for some people, see e.g. username's post above). That's all I'm saying.

 

[eteshoe]

Plus some schools don't have AOA - so step scores would be even more important