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AP only or AP/CP?
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Most private practice jobs have responsibilities in both AP and CP. There are rare private opportunities for CP only positions. There are a few more opportunities for AP-only private positions (mostly with specialty labs or large private institutions, where you have a subspecialty interest like derm or GI or whatever).
Academics, if that is your goal, doesn't really require doing both, even if you are focusing your career mostly on clinical practice.
Academics, if that is your goal, doesn't really require doing both, even if you are focusing your career mostly on clinical practice.
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If you're AP/CP you can get any job that requires AP certification PLUS every job that wants CP certification along with their anatomic pathologist.
Every pathologist I talked to in the last year (on the interview trail) told me that AP/CP is the only way to go.
Every pathologist I talked to in the last year (on the interview trail) told me that AP/CP is the only way to go.
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There are rare opportunities for AP-only in private practice, but by far the most jobs will be in academics. If the thought of being a subspecialty pathologist in academics does not appeal to you, then your choice is clear: AP/CP.
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It depends on what you want, but having CP training is not going to hurt you either way. If you decide you want to do academics, you'll never use CP, but if you decide you want to do private practice, you'll need it.
I'm pretty sure I want to stay in academics and I'm still forcing myself to do CP. You never know when you might change your mind.
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funny how people have this pang of difficulty in deciding to do CP. Most CP programs are 18 months of rotations and 6 months of elective.(although maybe this changed) They are the most CUSHY rotations that currently exist in all medical residency training, rivalling and IMO better than those 10-2 Derm outpatient ones (the only thing I can think of that is more cushy is Poison Control rotations!).
I cant believe trainees moan and groan when thinking about CP, like somehow 2 years is a major impediment to your life dreams or some crap.
The funny thing is seeing all these MDPhD moan and groan at doing CP, like they didnt just spend 10 years in post college education...LMAO.
CP is a GIFT, a gift FFS, treat it as such and do the residency.
CP will never hurt you, never.
I cant believe trainees moan and groan when thinking about CP, like somehow 2 years is a major impediment to your life dreams or some crap.
The funny thing is seeing all these MDPhD moan and groan at doing CP, like they didnt just spend 10 years in post college education...LMAO.
CP is a GIFT, a gift FFS, treat it as such and do the residency.
CP will never hurt you, never.
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We moan and groan precisely because we spent so much time acquiring credentials that may or may not turn out to be useful. When you finally hit residency you're older, some have kids who seem like they'll be needing help funding college in a few years, and the last thing you want to do is spend more time making resident money and acquiring a credential that you may not need. Hence the question, do I really really really need CP? I think it makes pretty good sense to skip it if you want an academic career, and if you decide to bail you can still get private practice jobs with AP only, I personally know of three who have left our department.
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What is your branch point decision though? Is it AP only? Or is it AP+an AP fellowship..or 2??
I will GUARANTEE it is AP+fellowship(s). No one does pure AP with nothing else. If that is the case you are already spending questionable time.
The trade off for CP isnt 2 extra years, its CP>AP fellowship, which I will bet the farm is a better option for nearly everyone.
Im not going to speak for every private practice group, but given the way hospital contracts are being worded now, it makes it nearly impossible for me to hire AP only candidates with no CP boards. The few groups I have discussed this with agreed.
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Yes, AP fellowship vs. CP+fellowship. Difference of one year. In some programs AP only can come out of 4 years with two fellowships if one is non-boarded, but that's just an insurance policy. If I wanted to give academics a shot, and bailing for the private sector is an option with AP only, why should I spend even one year doing CP? The hospital contract thing is something I haven't heard. Why do hospital contracts insist on CP?
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Yeah, I can't cry about CP rotations. I find myself enjoying CP more and more. 9-noon sitting around with techs and having the rest of the day surfing SDN while drinking iced coffee.
LA you are right....it is LA DOLCE VITA
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I knew a few guys who did entire month long CP rotations from the Starbucks across from the hospital, coming over only for weekly rounds and the free lunches.. True story.
I once did an "externship" in CP from South Beach in Miami..
Sort of like med school "reading rotations" but you get paid. Why wouldnt you do that??
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Since until recently (like 4-5 years ago?) I had never actually been the signator of a hospital contract, I hadnt read the PSA language before (PSA=professional services agreement) but indeed for liabilty/Medicare billing reasons they are expressly stating CP boards or being CP board eligible are required for staff priv. (meaning ALL the path staff has to have boards and not merely one of the crew, like it used to be).
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LAdoc thanks for your posts. I have been struggling with the many applicants trying to decide between AP only and AP/CP. You certainly make a good argument for doing the combined program.
However, I recently was speaking with an attending at a very well-known pathology program, and we were discussing this very topic. He told me that the future of pathology in private practice is sub-specialization, in which case it absolutely does not matter if you are CP trained or not.
I'm still in the undecided boat, leaning towards AP/CP mostly because I don't know for sure what my future career plans are... but I just wanted to throw that out there for other students who are also still debating.
However, I recently was speaking with an attending at a very well-known pathology program, and we were discussing this very topic. He told me that the future of pathology in private practice is sub-specialization, in which case it absolutely does not matter if you are CP trained or not.
I'm still in the undecided boat, leaning towards AP/CP mostly because I don't know for sure what my future career plans are... but I just wanted to throw that out there for other students who are also still debating.
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I don't understand this. If you join a group, you will do gen path on top of your area of expertise, if any. If others in your group have a problem with a case assoc with your subspec, they will come to you. However, if you want to join a mill, then you can just focus on your area of subspecialty.
I don't see how this is the future? It's been occurring for a long time.
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I'm not saying I am an expert on this... I am just relaying info told to me recently. I guess sub-specialization is becoming a lot more common than it had been, and not just in the sense that you are a "go-to" person for a particular organ system, but that it is becoming more common to be hired to do exclusively your specialty. I realize that it is not a new thing, but I hadn't realized how it was becoming more and more common to do so. That's all.
..any maybe it is location-specific. This was told to me by an attending in Boston.
..any maybe it is location-specific. This was told to me by an attending in Boston.
Here is my answer..after a long debate and discussions.........based on my individual and colleagues experiences:
You should go for AP/CP combined.
Everybody knows that CP is almost useless and not used in yourpractice. However, based on what I heard from many employers, the majority of the residency graduates in Pathology are AP/CP-trained and most of the applicants are AP/CP certified. If you are certified in AP only, you will be inferior to other candidates within a very competitive market. Therefore, the norm now is to be certified in both...so you need the CP JUST TO BE AT THE SAME LEVEL OF COMPETITIVENESS WITH OTHER CANDIDATES.
Should you decide to be certified in AP only, you should have a subspecialty training/certification to balance out your sole certification in AP and thus raise your competitveness level. AP + HEME, CYTO or NP OR training in one of the fancy fellowships such as GU/GI is very good (although many AP/CP certified candidates have also subspecialty certification!!!!!!!!!!).
Hope this helps.
You should go for AP/CP combined.
Everybody knows that CP is almost useless and not used in yourpractice. However, based on what I heard from many employers, the majority of the residency graduates in Pathology are AP/CP-trained and most of the applicants are AP/CP certified. If you are certified in AP only, you will be inferior to other candidates within a very competitive market. Therefore, the norm now is to be certified in both...so you need the CP JUST TO BE AT THE SAME LEVEL OF COMPETITIVENESS WITH OTHER CANDIDATES.
Should you decide to be certified in AP only, you should have a subspecialty training/certification to balance out your sole certification in AP and thus raise your competitveness level. AP + HEME, CYTO or NP OR training in one of the fancy fellowships such as GU/GI is very good (although many AP/CP certified candidates have also subspecialty certification!!!!!!!!!!).
Hope this helps.
