APA internship applicant with past disciplinary action

[RowlingStone]

Hey everyone. During my therapy practicum, I was placed on a corrective action plan, which I had to report on my APPIC internship application. I am worried that sites will automatically discard my application when they see my explanation. Under the disciplinary question, I spoke confidently and highlighted my growth areas. The plan took 30 days to complete, and I have had no other disciplinary actions. Has anyone here faced disciplinary action and still managed to secure an APA-approved internship?

On a side note, I feel that sites should notify students who are placed on a corrective action plan that they will have to report this on their internship applications.

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[WisNeuro]

Hey everyone. During my therapy practicum, I was placed on a corrective action plan, which I had to report on my APPIC internship application. I am worried that sites will automatically discard my application when they see my explanation. Under the disciplinary question, I spoke confidently and highlighted my growth areas. The plan took 30 days to complete, and I have had no other disciplinary actions. The most difficult part for me is digesting what was written about my plan of correction, which I had to discuss in my application. Has anyone here faced disciplinary action and still managed to secure an APA-approved internship?

On a side note, I feel that sites should notify students who are placed on a corrective action plan that they will have to report this on their internship applications. If I had known this, I would have exercised my due process rights as some of what was said about me was ludicrous.

If this is how you explain it to internship sites, your chances are pretty slim. If you own it and talk about growth and the rest of your application is good, sites will consider your application.

 

[summerbabe]

I am worried that sites will automatically discard my application when they see my explanation.

A popular site that has to automatically cut 50%+ of their applicant pool just to invite a reasonable amount to interview (literally the sheer # of interviews that site can provide based on how many staff they have & how much time they can devote), yes, your application might be discarded. But plenty of very qualified people will also not make the cut at that site.

At my VA, which usually gets ~3 applicants for every interview slot that we can offer, every single application will be reviewed by our TD & 2 other faculty using our standard rubric so nothing gets immediately screened out. It's possible that other sites may have other screening processes.

Since you may not be able to determine site competitiveness and wouldn't know about screen in/out processes, I would advise you to cast a wide net but certainly don't limit yourself from 'dream' sites. It also might not hurt to apply to more sites (say 16-20 than 12-16).

Under the disciplinary question, I spoke confidently and highlighted my growth areas.

Have you had anybody review your answer such as your training director and PI/mentor? Did they give you the same feedback? If you haven't or weren't planning on, I would strongly recommend that you get a couple of different professional perspectives.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

A popular site that has to automatically cut 50%+ of their applicant pool just to invite a reasonable amount to interview (literally the sheer # of interviews that site can provide based on how many staff they have & how much time they can devote), yes, your application might be discarded. But plenty of very qualified people will also not make the cut at that site.

At my VA, which usually gets ~3 applicants for every interview slot that we can offer, every single application will be reviewed by our TD & 2 other faculty using our standard rubric so nothing gets immediately screened out. It's possible that other sites may have other screening processes.

Since you may not be able to determine site competitiveness and wouldn't know about screen in/out processes, I would advise you to cast a wide net but certainly don't limit yourself from 'dream' sites. It also might not hurt to apply to more sites (say 16-20 than 12-16).

Have you had anybody review your answer such as your training director and PI/mentor? Did they give you the same feedback? If you haven't or weren't planning on, I would strongly recommend that you get a couple of different professional perspectives.

I second this recommendation. How it's been explained is probably more important than the disciplinary action itself in terms of determining how your application will be received. I don't know if many sites would just automatically toss the application without reviewing any further, but if the action is combined with what's perceived as a defensive explanation, that would not bode well. Even with that, if the rest of the application is strong, some sites may still want to interview you to get your explanation "in person."

 

[MCParent]

On a side note, I feel that sites should notify students who are placed on a corrective action plan that they will have to report this on their internship applications. If I had known this, I would have exercised my due process rights as some of what was said about me was ludicrous.

I recall this being a thing recently. As I recall the appi wording was changed from checking a box to indicate being on probation or other pretty substantial disciplinary action to checking a box for “any disciplinary action, in writing.” So many more people would be checking that box with that wording. You might also have had a written disciplinary action that took place before the appi changed, so the faculty would not have known that you would have to check that box for it if it was less than probation.

I’m not a TD anymore so I might be misrecalling the specifics. But I do see the “any disciplinary action in writing” part on the 2023 update to the TD instructions online.

 

[Sanman]

Agreed with the others that how you respond will matter the most. I will also mention that it depends on the severity of the disciplinary action. That said, the biggest factor here is out of your control and it is the rater who receives your application and the mood they happen to be in. If I am rating a group of applications and yours is the best, I may consider pushing it forward to the next round despite the action. If there is an equally good or better applicant, then it really won't matter.

Just make sure your fit is good and there are no other mistakes on your application. Also, I hope you applied to a variety of locations and not just popular locales.

 

[cara susanna]

I was placed on a remediation plan at one point but I don't think my program reported it, since it never came up during interviews. If they did report it, then apparently no one cared. I wouldn't really call it disciplinary action, though, it was pretty informal.

 

[Ollie123]

Confer with your DCT about this if you have not already. There is some blurriness around what constitutes a disciplinary action, remediation plan, etc. The formalities around how your program treats this may matter.

I took an extra year in grad school because I had just gotten married, had a couple key papers I wanted to get out and had won a prestigious fellowship that covered my stipend for that year. Per our website, this meant I was off-timeline and therefore on academic probation. Per reality, our entire faculty was supportive and this was unofficial so had no bearing and was not something I had to report. I explicitly asked about this when deciding whether to apply since it would obviously impact whether I would choose to do so.

Obviously your situation is a bit different, but it is definitely worth asking if you have not yet done so.

Beyond that, largely agree with the advice you received above. Yes, you might get filtered out at a handful of extremely competitive sites but if you handle it well it certainly isn't going to preclude you from matching. This is especially true if you are otherwise a strong applicant. Could you match a bit further down your rank list than you otherwise would have? Its possible, but you would never know. You could also match further down your rank list because someone misread your CV or was grumpy during your interview because you were the last one before lunch. Control what you can and accept that the process is imperfect....

 

[RowlingStone]

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful feedback.

 

[borne_before]

Just don't check that box next time.

I don't see a corrective action plan as being disciplinary.

Shoot dude, if @cara susanna had one, then you're in good company. I had a remediation plan on my internship (partially because I had a supe who I'd later found out was alcoholic and not reporting to one of the sites, letting a trainee basically run it).

Spill the tea bro. Tell us what happened, what it says, and maybe we can help you craft/script some good responses.

 

[WisNeuro]

Just don't check that box next time.

I don't see a corrective action plan as being disciplinary.

Shoot dude, if @cara susanna had one, then you're in good company. I had a remediation plan on my internship (partially because I had a supe who I'd later found out was alcoholic and not reporting to one of the sites, letting a trainee basically run it).

Spill the tea bro. Tell us what happened, what it says, and maybe we can help you craft/script some good responses.

Remediation/disciplinary fall under this. Definitely check the box, if you don't report it and it is found out, that will definitely get an application canned.

 

[smalltownpsych]

In my mind there is a definite distinction between remediation plan and disciplinary plan. One means you need more training because you are lacking in a skill set or knowledge base and the other means you broke a rule or law or ethical guideline. I don’t know what the specific wording is on the app so maybe it covers both but if it just says discipline then it probably refers to the latter. If it does include the former then it shouldn’t be that much of an issue since they can be fairly common throughout the training process.

I also had a remediation plan during my internship. The specific reason was that my supervisor thought my conceptualizing skills were deficient which was a little ridiculous because prior supervisors had told me that was my greatest strength. She was a bit wacky and was banned from the site because of legal issues related to a conflict with nursing staff for the second half of my internship. The rest of the year I recieved much more positive feedback. I did find out that she had placed prior interns on remediation plans so apparently she felt that was her job. 🤷‍♂️

 

[WisNeuro]

In my mind there is a definite distinction between remediation plan and disciplinary plan. One means you need more training because you are lacking in a skill set or knowledge base and the other means you broke a rule or law or ethical guideline. I don’t know what the specific wording is on the app so maybe it covers both but if it just says discipline then it probably refers to the latter. If it does include the former then it shouldn’t be that much of an issue since they can be fairly common throughout the training process.

I also had a remediation plan during my internship. The specific reason was that my supervisor thought my conceptualizing skills were deficient which was a little ridiculous because prior supervisors had told me that was my greatest strength. She was a bit wacky and was banned from the site because of legal issues related to a conflict with nursing staff for the second half of my internship. The rest of the year I recieved much more positive feedback. I did find out that she had placed prior interns on remediation plans so apparently she felt that was her job. 🤷‍♂️

It used to mention "of any sort" in the application, essentially asking about anything formal and/or in writing. I would consider remediation plans falling under this category, and if not mentioned and brought up elsewhere, or if I found out about it elsewhere without it being disclosed, that would be an insta DNR for me.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

In general, in my experience, remediation plans aren't separated from other types of disciplinary actions. You might have a remediation plan because a supervisor believes you need additional work in an area that's currently below the expected level, or because you've done something wrong, like not properly handling PHI. At least for internship. The idea being that all of these situations require some type of remediation above and beyond the normal workings of the internship (and/or if the supervisor has already tried to address the issue but without success).

 

[borne_before]

Is there a central "remediation plan" database?

I don't consider a formal remediation or even a corrective action plan disciplinary - especially if it was met. It is implied in the plan that if you don't meet it, then you get disciplined.

Students are a vulnerable population and now we are going to punish them on their capstone experience, the internship, for what? Being students? The whole point of grad school is to learn and move on. I know some of y'all popped into grad school 100% perfect clinicians, but the rest of us need to learn some stuff and sometimes that means making mistakes.

This field treats students so poorly sometimes. Especially, as many supervisors/sites have abused the remediation plan through poor communicators, crazy supervisors, axis II traits, etc. Stories abound.

I bet OP is coming off a little defensive because it was a poor situation that could of been handled better.

 

[WisNeuro]

Is there a central "remediation plan" database?

I don't consider a formal remediation or even a corrective action plan disciplinary - especially if it was met. It is implied in the plan that if you don't meet it, then you get disciplined.

Students are a vulnerable population and now we are going to punish them on their capstone experience, the internship, for what? Being students? The whole point of grad school is to learn and move on. I know some of y'all popped into grad school 100% perfect clinicians, but the rest of us need to learn some stuff and sometimes that means making mistakes.

This field treats students so poorly sometimes. Especially, as many supervisors/sites have abused the remediation plan through poor communicators, crazy supervisors, axis II traits, etc. Stories abound.

I bet OP is coming off a little defensive because it was a poor situation that could of been handled better.

Who said they are being punished? As long as the rest of the application was good, it didn't really affect ranking sin my experience. But, we also need to know where someone's past issues and growth areas are. And, I'm sure that abuses occur, but IME, remediation plans are also fairly rare. They are a PITA to implement and oversee, and are pretty much a last resort.

 

[Ollie123]

And, I'm sure that abuses occur, but IME, remediation plans are also fairly rare. They are a PITA to implement and oversee, and are pretty much a last resort.

This is why I think it needs to be discussed with the DCT. A true formal remediation plan akin to a performance-improvement-plan implemented in a hospital setting is rare, a PITA to implement and a last resort. A good practicum would likely function similarly. A bad practicum might have a rogue supervisor write on a napkin that CBT is abusive and you have 30 days to start doing more primal scream therapy. The fact that it was 30 days suggests to me it is more formalized and thus "might" have to be reported, but I think that is a question for a faculty member in the program more familiar with the parties and the nuance of the situation should answer.

I'm just not sure we have enough info here to answer (nor should we as its likely not wise for the OP to share it publicly). I do think there is enough grey area here the DCT (or practicum coordinator or clinical faculty as a whole or however that program works things) should make the call.

 

[summerbabe]

This is why I think it needs to be discussed with the DCT. A true formal remediation plan akin to a performance-improvement-plan implemented in a hospital setting is rare, a PITA to implement and a last resort. A good practicum would likely function similarly. A bad practicum might have a rogue supervisor write on a napkin that CBT is abusive and you have 30 days to start doing more primal scream therapy. The fact that it was 30 days suggests to me it is more formalized and thus "might" have to be reported, but I think that is a question for a faculty member in the program more familiar with the parties and the nuance of the situation should answer.

I'm just not sure we have enough info here to answer (nor should we as its likely not wise for the OP to share it publicly). I do think there is enough grey area here the DCT (or practicum coordinator or clinical faculty as a whole or however that program works things) should make the call.

100% agree.

I had a situation in grad school in our dept run clinic where a 1x incident involving lack of security of PHI happened. I met with faculty and a plan was come up with (that I passed).

When it came time for internship, I asked my DCT if I needed to check this box and she said no so what happened with me did not meet my DCTs understanding of this disclosure (I imagine this was done with exact purpose in mind to avoid 'punishing' students for internship if they made the proper adjustments).

For for the OP, double check with your DCT if you have any questions. You can also clarify with somebody involved with APPIC since none of them will review your applications or communicate with any of your programs.

 

[MCParent]

Def ask DCT.

The wording on the APPI portal is stupid. At worst it might encourage programs to not actually follow through in writing on remediation processes to avoid having the issue technically mean that item should be checked. Minor errors that are corrected shouldn’t follow the student that way, and programs should be able to document all steps taken with an issue, in writing, without having to worry about the “interpretation” of that question.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Is there a central "remediation plan" database?

I don't consider a formal remediation or even a corrective action plan disciplinary - especially if it was met. It is implied in the plan that if you don't meet it, then you get disciplined.

Students are a vulnerable population and now we are going to punish them on their capstone experience, the internship, for what? Being students? The whole point of grad school is to learn and move on. I know some of y'all popped into grad school 100% perfect clinicians, but the rest of us need to learn some stuff and sometimes that means making mistakes.

This field treats students so poorly sometimes. Especially, as many supervisors/sites have abused the remediation plan through poor communicators, crazy supervisors, axis II traits, etc. Stories abound.

I bet OP is coming off a little defensive because it was a poor situation that could of been handled better.

Not that I know of, but internships will (or should) maintain records of any remediation plans they enact, as is dictated by their SOPs and due process procedures. I imagine graduate programs are the same way.

All this is different from informal attempts at fixing problems, by the way. A remediation plan generally isn't part of trainees being trainees and needing support. It's when an issue is big enough that the standard methods of addressing growth or other areas are insufficient, when a trainee is resistant or running into other problems (e.g., professionalism issues are causing conflicts with clinic staff), or, in some cases, when disciplinary action is necessary. Much of the time, it's a combination of factors.

As Ollie said, enacting a formal remediation plan requires a good bit of time, energy, and paperwork on the part of the program. But generally speaking, remediation plans also aren't meant to be seen as punitive. Much of the time, they allow a program to offer additional supports that might not otherwise be available (e.g., reduced workload, extra supervision, etc.). It also allows the training program to keep a record of what they're doing to address the identified issues in case the trainee doesn't/isn't ultimately able to meet the stipulations of the plan.

I've had to enact remediation plans, and I've ultimately had to dismiss trainees. These are not things anyone involved in training generally wants to do.

 

[cara susanna]

Lol, well now I'm wondering if I should have reported mine, but I guess it worked out? I didn't even think to ask my DCT based on the wording of the question.

Mine was due to concerns raised by a supervisor for an additional clinical experience (not a practicum, which I don't know if that distinction matters for this purpose).

 

[WisNeuro]

Lol, well now I'm wondering if I should have reported mine, but I guess it worked out? I didn't even think to ask my DCT based on the wording of the question.

Mine was due to concerns raised by a supervisor for an additional clinical experience (not a practicum, which I don't know if that distinction matters for this purpose).

This is where the explanation portion comes in, though. I don't think anyone on an admissions committee sees that someone checks that box and skips over the summary portion that follows. There's definitely a pretty wide variance of severity when it comes to remediation and/or disciplinary action. Many, like yours, are not big deals at all when it comes to ranking and interview decisions. Others, like multiple and recent DUIs, or multiple prac dismissals, are pretty glaring red flags. This is why I'd be more broad in disclosing these things, as most cases are pretty benign, but not disclosing makes it look like someone is covering something up.

 

[cara susanna]

I'm just saying I wasn't trying to hide it intentionally, it didn't even occur to me to report it

 

[WisNeuro]

I'm just saying I wasn't trying to hide it intentionally, it didn't even occur to me to report it

I get that. And I agree that the wording on the application could probably use some clarification for remediation vs. disciplinary actions, among other issues.

 

[bcliff]

Who said they are being punished? As long as the rest of the application was good, it didn't really affect ranking sin my experience. But, we also need to know where someone's past issues and growth areas are. And, I'm sure that abuses occur, but IME, remediation plans are also fairly rare. They are a PITA to implement and oversee, and are pretty much a last resort.

In my PhD program many (half of?) students were put on (internal) remediation at one point or another - I was because my master's thesis took longer than expected. Our program handbook specifically states that remediation is different than probation. Remediation plans were not viewed as disciplinary action but as a way to ensure timely progress was made through the program. No students in my program would have reported a remediation plan on their APPI, per faculty instruction.

 

[WisNeuro]

In my PhD program many (half of?) students were put on (internal) remediation at one point or another - I was because my master's thesis took longer than expected. Our program handbook specifically states that remediation is different than probation. Remediation plans were not viewed as disciplinary action but as a way to ensure timely progress was made through the program. No students in my program would have reported a remediation plan on their APPI, per faculty instruction.

That is interesting, this is far different than any of the programs that I have been affiliated with.

 

[RowlingStone]

Is there a central "remediation plan" database?

I don't consider a formal remediation or even a corrective action plan disciplinary - especially if it was met. It is implied in the plan that if you don't meet it, then you get disciplined.

Students are a vulnerable population and now we are going to punish them on their capstone experience, the internship, for what? Being students? The whole point of grad school is to learn and move on. I know some of y'all popped into grad school 100% perfect clinicians, but the rest of us need to learn some stuff and sometimes that means making mistakes.

This field treats students so poorly sometimes. Especially, as many supervisors/sites have abused the remediation plan through poor communicators, crazy supervisors, axis II traits, etc. Stories abound.

I bet OP is coming off a little defensive because it was a poor situation that could of been handled better.

You are SPOT on with everything you said.

 

[RowlingStone]

A couple of things... Internal remediation plans are the "gray" area, as many academic institutions do not consider internal remediation plans a form "disciplinary" action, thus does not need to be reported on AAPI. Second, as many of you alluded to, it is in my best interest to not disclose specific details at this time. However, once/if I am matched, I will provide context and details as I would appreciate all your thoughts on the entire situation.

As for the 2024-2025 AAPIC Internship process, I applied to roughly 15 sites (some with several tracks/consortiums), 12 that denied me an interview, 1 that invited me to interview, and two more that I am yet to hear back from.