APMA Salary Survey - States in Demand

[deleted1235332]

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@sdupre_apma has done tremendous work. Thank you for all this data

 

[air bud]

Podiatry fellowship directors know exactly why many young graduates pursue fellowships: to become more competitive for hospital based jobs.

Personally, I think fellowships should be offered through academic centers and hospital based programs not some private podiatry offices or small orthopedic private practices.

PP Fellowship Director:

• Why hire a new graduate associate for $150k?
• We can hire a “fellow” for $50k and replace them with another one next year.
• Make them sign a non-compete so they can't stay in the same area.
• Tell them it looks great on their CV.
• I can market myself as “ fellowship director” to get industry consultant gig

This is the way

 

[air bud]

No, sorry! That's not what I'm saying at all. I think my phrasing wasn't very clear.

What I said was the transition from solo to "employed, non-hospital, non-equity roles". These are people who are employed (not an owner, no equity stake) in a non-hospital role. Think, an associate, super group employee, etc. That's the group which I'm saying was growing massively relative to the other forms of podiatric work.

Quick follow-on note. I don't think this would be shocking to anyone. It is useful and interesting to see it clearly reflected in the data though instead of in anecdotal reports. This also isn't to say this is growth in supergroups. The data I've seen there is not strong enough to support particular statements, but I would say that there may be evidence that it's likely a mix of supergroups/PE and increasing prevalence of associate type arrangements in non-super-group practices.

Yes, I was incorrect here. Not good a reading stuff just a podiatrist

 

[sdupre_apma]

@sdupre_apma has done tremendous work. Thank you for all this data

Thanks!

 

[sdupre_apma]

Yes, I was incorrect here. Not good a reading stuff just a podiatrist

All good, I never learned to read myself. I just fake it really.

 

[Aresnebula]

$635k in collections

Realistically, how hard is it to collect that much?

 

[Feli]

Realistically, how hard is it to collect that much?

A few factors:

-how many you see per day
-average area insurance
- services/ancillaries recommended (sold?) to patients
-if the owner/group is being honest with associate about their true billing/collections

The last factor is the wild card. Associate will never know. There are a million ways to reduce the collections figures... anything from forgetting to count copays to using net not gross DME/graft profits to not counting OTC or even just straight up reducing the numbers before discussing/publishing to associate (and payroll).
I think I put it in another thread, but when I was working in supergroup, my collections were supposedly about $135 per pt visit... then same area, same insurance, and I do $170 then $180 now $185 or so being solo. That tells you about all you need to know.

....$635k is probably about average for an associate who's been there a year or two and works full time. But, like I said, the pure % pay is a way to paint the associates into a corner: if they see fewer or take days/weeks off, they make less. If they don't push the ancillaries/DME/etc the group wants, they make less. Why anyone wants to do that grind for years with zero shot at partner/owner is beyond me, but that's exactly how Apma is setting things up now (PE group folk in "leader" positions and a surplus of grads).

 

[heybrother]

I've never collected $635K in 7 years. I can't even imagine what I could pay myself if I could bring in $635K now.

A bad partner. PE. All just bloat bringing you down.

If you're sitting here trying to imagine a situation where you "succeed" under PE - I have news for you - you're doing it wrong. Learn the game and then do your own thing or join a hospital/MSG.

 

[Aresnebula]

join a hospital

That's the problem, it is so hard to get one. I was always rejected over a fellowship trained podiatrist or a board certified one even after making into secondary rounds. It is super frustrating. I am thinking of becoming board certified then join a VA if I can't start my own thing by then.

 

[heybrother]

That's the problem, it is so hard to get one. I was always rejected over a fellowship trained podiatrist or a board certified one even after making into secondary rounds. It is super frustrating. I am thinking of becoming board certified then join a VA if I can't start my own thing by then.

Any job with guaranteed salary is going to have a competitive application process. Chasing the VA is even more problematic than chasing hospitals because there is at least a "small-medium?" chance you could convince a hospital to "create" a job. I'm not going to fault you - I was checking every day on usajobs to see if anything would open up in my town. I've moved on. Employment requires the goodwill of others. Starting your own practice requires the determination of yourself and your family.

 

[dpmgrad]

It should be noted that not all VA Podiatry jobs are listed through usajobs.gov. For example, two VA positions were recently listed on linkedin and not on usajobs.gov. It is not required that a healthcare provider needs to be hired through usajobs.gov at the VA. I would also recommend that you reach out to those that already work in the VA since they may be aware of some upcoming positions before they even get advertised. If you want to send me a direct message with the area of the US that are you are interested and I can let you know if any positions that may become available through my VA connections.

Any job with guaranteed salary is going to have a competitive application process. Chasing the VA is even more problematic than chasing hospitals because there is at least a "small-medium?" chance you could convince a hospital to "create" a job. I'm not going to fault you - I was checking every day on usajobs to see if anything would open up in my town. I've moved on. Employment requires the goodwill of others. Starting your own practice requires the determination of yourself and your family.