App about to be verified...looking for final opinions on my school list

[Zach77]

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Long time lurker here, can you guys look over my school list. I am applying MD/PhD and am concerned that I have no meter with which to weigh a too top heavy vs. not top heavy enough list.

(template stolen from r/premed) Alright, so...

• Year in school: Incoming Senior (obviously)
• Country/state of residence: Nebraska, US
• Schools to which you are applying:
• Harvard
  Johns Hopkins
  Stanford
  Mayo
  U Wash (St. Louis)
  Washington U
  Baylor
  U Chicago
  Northwestern
  Emory
  U of Wisconsin
  Ohio State
  Einstein
  U Minnesota
  Nebraska Med
  
  
• Cumulative GPA: 3.94 (pending verification)
• Science GPA: 3.93 (pending verification
• MCAT Scores: 520 (131,129,130,130)
• Research – ~2000 hours, two labs (USDA microbiology during school year since freshman year (1600 hours), Nebraska Med neuroscience lab during a summer as part of a SURP program (400 hours), Poster session first author but no pubs yet :-(
• Volunteering (clinical) – 11 hours (yes you read that right, not much at all, worries me the most)
• Physician shadowing – ~40 hours in Family med, psychology, neurosurgery, neurology, immunology, and pathology
• Non-clinical volunteering: 760 hours, coaching a high school debate team, one of my passions
• Extracurricular activities: Exec board of a Honors Peer Mentoring Program, some clubs, Mortar Board Honor Society member, chemistry and math tutor, other misc things
• Employment history: Soil Private Lab (summer after Freshman), Medical Research SURP (summer after Sophomore), USDA research (summer after Junior, and 10 hours/week throughout), High school debate competition judge (throughout)
• Immediate family members in medicine? (y/n): No
• Specialty of interest: Neurology, but not firm
• Graduate degrees: None

I can fill in any additional details you might need, any help is appreciated!!! Missing schools? Schools I shouldn't be applying to? 15 schools too many? too little? etc?

You guys are the best!

 

[Goro]

11 hours of clinical ? Lethal

What are you going to say when asked how you know you are suited for a life of caring for the sick and suffering? “That you just know”? Imagine how that will go over!

 

[Zach77]

11 hours of clinical ? Lethal

What are you going to say when asked how you know you are suited for a life of caring for the sick and suffering? “That you just know”? Imagine how that will go over!

Well I wasn't exactly looking for areas to improve (since its go time now) but I'm glad to take the opportunity for some sparring practice. The short version is I do not know that, at least not certainly. I am decently confident that I am suited for such a life, my shadowing hours and the little clinical volunteering hours that I have showed me that...to a point. I know I like providing help to those who need it, which is why I was so involved in mentoring and tutoring. But I chose to spend my time ensuring that research was a perfect fit for me, and it is. Sure, more clinical hours would make me more confident in the med side and it is still a big part of who I am, but I only had so much time, and with what I have learned about myself through research, I have no regrets. So I guess I would confidently say I am suited for a life physician-scientist, not necessarily a life spent "caring for the sick and suffering".

 

[Goro]

Wiser colleagues @gyngyn, @LizzyM , @HomeSkool @Pathdocmd @Med Ed @mimelim , what say you?

 

[gyngyn]

It will come down to how well you have articulated your reasons for the dual degree and your perceived potential as a physician/scientist. With no clinical experience (and modest research), you will be out of luck at many schools. Your state school will probably bite.

 

[faerie62]

Hey you sound like me! p: I'm not sure on the school list (I honestly think it is "top heavy" though) but I wish you luck.

 

[mimelim]

It will come down to how well you have articulated your reasons for the dual degree and your perceived potential as a physician/scientist. With no clinical experience (and modest research), you will be out of luck at many schools. Your state school will probably bite.

I agree. I'd also say that Wash U may also bite more often than the others. I get a little skeptical when I see 2000 hours of 'research' and no publications. It isn't that publications are everything, but just a little strange.

 

[mega_]

People will ask you "If you like clinical research so much and with very little patient contact have no way to know whether MD side suits you, why not just go for PhD? There are plenty of brilliant PhDs doing amazing translational science".

 

[bonedoc5576]

University of Washington is the state school and applying there as a Nebraska resident would be a donation. Washington University in St. Louis may like your stats. If the goal is to get into a top school you ought to consider a gap year. Your app has not one but two boxes largely unchecked

 

[mariposas905]

I agree. I'd also say that Wash U may also bite more often than the others. I get a little skeptical when I see 2000 hours of 'research' and no publications. It isn't that publications are everything, but just a little strange.

If these hours were spread over 2-3 research projects, would you be less skeptical? I've done research at 3 places in undergrad and have around 1700 hours total. But no publications sadly 🙁 wondering if this needs to be explained!

 

[Zach77]

I agree. I'd also say that Wash U may also bite more often than the others. I get a little skeptical when I see 2000 hours of 'research' and no publications. It isn't that publications are everything, but just a little strange.

@mariposas905, Looks like I am in the same boat as you and have always wondered about It! My research has been over 3 projects at 2 different labs and my home lab is in microbiology/plant pathology (a notoriously slow moving field) where we are waiting on the work of a few other labs as well as some permits for handling non-native species. So the nature of the work is holding up publications. @mimelim do you think this is something I should jump to explain in any interviews I go to? At first glance, would this really be seen as a "unchecked box" or "red flag"?

 

[Zach77]

University of Washington is the state school and applying there as a Nebraska resident would be a donation. Washington University in St. Louis may like your stats. If the goal is to get into a top school you ought to consider a gap year. Your app has not one but two boxes largely unchecked

I was worried about that with Washington however it looks as if MSTP candidates do not fall under their neighboring state deal and admissions is truly national in scope. And I guess the goal is and always has been to just get in somewhere, a non-top school is not a deal breaker for me. TBH I had not thought seriously about trying my app at a top school until recently (and when I got my MCAT scores back). So I feel very blind in this process.

I think I am going to go ahead with my application despite the few areas I am lacking as MSTP programs seem to be quite lenient with clinical hours (based of what I have been told). Is this the case in your experience? I am not against a gap year if I truly need it but its a long haul ahead...

 

[bonedoc5576]

I didn't notice you are applying MSTP, and I dont know much about the priorities for selection. My sense is that it is even more competitive than MD, but you might be on to something...if your research experience is strong, perhaps you won't need to demonstrate humanitarian or clinical experiences. You are right that U of W selects MD PhD from national pool!

 

[sushi18]

I think your list is way too top heavy given your late app and red flag number of volunteer hours. Add Cleveland (dont remember the full school name but they require all students take an additional year of research) and see if you can do some clinical volunteering hours now to see if you like it and update schools. Still won’t be great imo but prob better

 

[Goro]

If there is any school that's a research *****, it's Stanford.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

If there is any school that's a research *****, it's Stanford.

So: how's the chances of a 4.0/528 from Caltech, with a first-author Nature paper, 20 shadowing hours, and no other clinical or nonclinical volunteering? I know: cookie cutter volunteering would mean he had a strong chance...but can the Nature paper and god tier stats rehabilitate an otherwise DOA applicant?

 

[sushi18]

So: how's the chances of a 4.0/528 from Caltech, with a first-author Nature paper, 20 shadowing hours, and no other clinical or nonclinical volunteering? I know: cookie cutter volunteering would mean he had a strong chance...but can the Nature paper and god tier stats rehabilitate an otherwise DOA applicant?

I still think only 20 hrs volunteering is a BIG red flag. Pretty sure that kind of thing (high stats little to no volunteering) is pretty much auto-reject. They'd wonder why you don't just do a PhD instead.

 

[Lawpy]

If there is any school that's a research *****, it's Stanford.

Even then, I'm not sure whether Stanford adcoms would be okay with applicants who have low volunteering hours. They'd probably just reject them and maybe recommend them to their PhD program. 200 hours of volunteering (clinical and nonclinical) is probably more than plenty for them. <20 hours is cutting it short (that's basically 5 days of volunteering...)