Application process: Looking back as a 4th year

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Awsome Post! Thanks for the advice.
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bump - you 2011'ers should read this and take it to heart!!!
 
fourthyearmed said:
Um, I'm highly doubt you will have the opportunity to intubate as a first year. Most interns have had very little experience at this, much less 3rd or 4th years med students. You may get to start an IV or suture a laceration in the ER if you're lucky.
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Actually, I did get to intubate a patient as a 1st year. Or, well, try to--the guy was huge and they ended up having to intubate fluoroscopically, after me, then the intern, then the resident and then the attending all tried unsuccessfully. So I didn't feel quite so incompetent in the end.

I did not get to suture anything as a preclinical student, but that was my own fault. I could have hung out in the ER at Charity like several of my classmates did. One of my classmates put in a central line as a second year. So basically if you wanted to learn how, and get some practice, you could.

However, what Mike says about research is dead on.
 
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Samoa said:
Actually, I did get to intubate a patient as a 1st year. Or, well, try to--the guy was huge and they ended up having to intubate fluoroscopically, after me, then the intern, then the resident and then the attending all tried unsuccessfully. So I didn't feel quite so incompetent in the end.

I did not get to suture anything as a preclinical student, but that was my own fault. I could have hung out in the ER at Charity like several of my classmates did. One of my classmates put in a central line as a second year. So basically if you wanted to learn how, and get some practice, you could.

However, what Mike says about research is dead on.
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You mean "video-guided," right? I think if the anesthesia resident or attending couldn't get the tube they'd probaby go for an emergent cricothyroidotomy and then a tracheostomy once the patient was stable.
 
Definitely a sticky!!
 
Panda Bear said:
You mean "video-guided," right? I think if the anesthesia resident or attending couldn't get the tube they'd probaby go for an emergent cricothyroidotomy and then a tracheostomy once the patient was stable.
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Maybe it was endoscopic. I was a first year, so I had no idea. I thought for sure I heard them say fluoroscopic, though. But you know, it's been three years. And this was in the OR, not the ER, so they just continued with the bag/mask setup. I left the room to go looking for other patients that needed intubating.
 
Samoa said:
Maybe it was endoscopic. I was a first year, so I had no idea. I thought for sure I heard them say fluoroscopic, though. But you know, it's been three years. And this was in the OR, not the ER, so they just continued with the bag/mask setup. I left the room to go looking for other patients that needed intubating.
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By fluoroscopic that would mean they have a C-arm in there and you are guiding the tube in under an x-ray like video. It doesn't seem like this would be very beneficial, because you would essentially be looking at a real time x-ray of someone's neck. Maybe I am just visualizing that wrong, but it doesn't seem like it would help.
 
Yeah, I know what fluoroscopy is. I am a 4th year, now, after all. And not going into anesthesiology, obviously. :oops:

However, let's get back on topic. My point is that we did actually get quite a bit of clinical experience as 1st year students. And it was valuable to me because I found out early that I was not interested in that field. So I was able to spend my elective time more effectively in 3rd and 4th year.
 
Samoa said:
Maybe it was endoscopic. I was a first year, so I had no idea. I thought for sure I heard them say fluoroscopic, though. But you know, it's been three years. And this was in the OR, not the ER, so they just continued with the bag/mask setup. I left the room to go looking for other patients that needed intubating.
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I was just curious is all. Maybe it's something I haven't heard about.
 
Samoa said:
Yeah, I know what fluoroscopy is. I am a 4th year, now, after all. And not going into anesthesiology, obviously. :oops:

However, let's get back on topic. My point is that we did actually get quite a bit of clinical experience as 1st year students. And it was valuable to me because I found out early that I was not interested in that field. So I was able to spend my elective time more effectively in 3rd and 4th year.
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Oh ok, yeah I certainly wasn't trying to call BS on you or anything lol. I just had never heard of that.

I think that is cool though to have learned about specific specialties as a first year.
 
This is, in my opinion, the most insightful and useful post on SDN to help understand what to look for in a school (when deciding where to apply, when asking questions during interviews, and after acceptances when trying to choose which school to attend). I would really enjoy hearing more people's opinions on what truly is important in choosing a school...***and, more importantly, how to ascertain the answers to these questions. For example, the person who started this thread says the most important thing is probably what your role will be as a 3rd and 4th yr. The balance between "doing" medicine and just "seeing" others practicing medicine. And also, the balance between having the right amount--not too much or too little--supervision and feedback. But how do you figure these things out? At every school I've asked, the response has been: "we allow you to do as much as you're comfortable doing." And since we hardly get to meet 3rd/4th yr students, that's the most info I've gotten.

Comments, thoughts, suggestions?
 
whynot said:
This is, in my opinion, the most insightful and useful post on SDN to help understand what to look for in a school (when deciding where to apply, when asking questions during interviews, and after acceptances when trying to choose which school to attend). I would really enjoy hearing more people's opinions on what truly is important in choosing a school...***and, more importantly, how to ascertain the answers to these questions. For example, the person who started this thread says the most important thing is probably what your role will be as a 3rd and 4th yr. The balance between "doing" medicine and just "seeing" others practicing medicine. And also, the balance between having the right amount--not too much or too little--supervision and feedback. But how do you figure these things out? At every school I've asked, the response has been: "we allow you to do as much as you're comfortable doing." And since we hardly get to meet 3rd/4th yr students, that's the most info I've gotten.

Comments, thoughts, suggestions?
Click to expand...
When I wrote "post" I really meant "thread."
 
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whynot said:
This is, in my opinion, the most insightful and useful post on SDN to help understand what to look for in a school (when deciding where to apply, when asking questions during interviews, and after acceptances when trying to choose which school to attend). I would really enjoy hearing more people's opinions on what truly is important in choosing a school...***and, more importantly, how to ascertain the answers to these questions. For example, the person who started this thread says the most important thing is probably what your role will be as a 3rd and 4th yr. The balance between "doing" medicine and just "seeing" others practicing medicine. And also, the balance between having the right amount--not too much or too little--supervision and feedback. But how do you figure these things out? At every school I've asked, the response has been: "we allow you to do as much as you're comfortable doing." And since we hardly get to meet 3rd/4th yr students, that's the most info I've gotten.

Comments, thoughts, suggestions?
Click to expand...


I agree, this thread is very helpful, but if anyone has pointers about how to get the real answers to these questions, that would be much appreciated...
 
whynot said:
This is, in my opinion, the most insightful and useful post on SDN to help understand what to look for in a school (when deciding where to apply, when asking questions during interviews, and after acceptances when trying to choose which school to attend). I would really enjoy hearing more people's opinions on what truly is important in choosing a school...***and, more importantly, how to ascertain the answers to these questions. For example, the person who started this thread says the most important thing is probably what your role will be as a 3rd and 4th yr. The balance between "doing" medicine and just "seeing" others practicing medicine. And also, the balance between having the right amount--not too much or too little--supervision and feedback. But how do you figure these things out? At every school I've asked, the response has been: "we allow you to do as much as you're comfortable doing." And since we hardly get to meet 3rd/4th yr students, that's the most info I've gotten.

Comments, thoughts, suggestions?
Click to expand...

I have some suggestions...Rather than print out advice posted from some pasty ivy-league type snob so you can jerk off to it, why not just pick the school you like the most and take heart in knowing that you will earn an excellent education no matter what school you attend? And while you are attending your school of choice make it your goal to wean yourself from the SDN pre-allopathic forum and move on to some more productive uses of your time. :thumbup:
 
TroubleTheCat said:
I have some suggestions...Rather than print out advice posted from some pasty ivy-league type snob so you can jerk off to it, why not just pick the school you like the most and take heart in knowing that you will earn an excellent education no matter what school you attend? And while you are attending your school of choice make it your goal to wean yourself from the SDN pre-allopathic forum and move on to some more productive uses of your time. :thumbup:
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Thanks so much, for the snarky, useless reply...

"Pick the school you like most" ... Gee, why didn't I think of that???

If you don't find this advice helpful, feel free to ignore it. But I think the OP made some good points, and so do others on these boards. So how about you find more productive uses of your time than this thread, and the rest of us will stay and discuss it in a constructive manner.

:thumbup:
 
zimmie256 said:
Thanks so much, for the snarky, useless reply...

"Pick the school you like most" ... Gee, why didn't I think of that???

If you don't find this advice helpful, feel free to ignore it. But I think the OP made some good points, and so do others on these boards. So how about you find more productive uses of your time than this thread, and the rest of us will stay and discuss it in a constructive manner.

:thumbup:
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Hey, no problem...always glad to help. I know my advice seems simple enough but let's face it...if the SDN is any indication it is a fair assessment that most pre-meds out there could use a few lessons in common sense. Having a cut-and-dry 9-5 job between undergrad and medical school allows me to waste plenty of time at the computer all while I'm raking in the dough and I must say it puts a smile on my face :D to read about how clueless all of you geeks are on SDN. But, hey...come August of '07 you won't catch me browsing the pre-allopathic forum, that's for sure (and I hope you all take my advice and do the same for the sake of your own sanity).:thumbup:
 
whynot said:
This is, in my opinion, the most insightful and useful post on SDN to help understand what to look for in a school (when deciding where to apply, when asking questions during interviews, and after acceptances when trying to choose which school to attend). I would really enjoy hearing more people's opinions on what truly is important in choosing a school...***and, more importantly, how to ascertain the answers to these questions. For example, the person who started this thread says the most important thing is probably what your role will be as a 3rd and 4th yr. The balance between "doing" medicine and just "seeing" others practicing medicine. And also, the balance between having the right amount--not too much or too little--supervision and feedback. But how do you figure these things out? At every school I've asked, the response has been: "we allow you to do as much as you're comfortable doing." And since we hardly get to meet 3rd/4th yr students, that's the most info I've gotten.

Comments, thoughts, suggestions?
Click to expand...

Back to the current topic of discussion...

Has anybody found good ways to get these questions answered? I've thought about asking for current students email addresses post-acceptance, or do you guys think it's better to wait for 2nd look weekends? Any other suggestions are welcome...
 
I am having a hard time getting these questions answered too. I feel like I am talking to a military recruiter most of the time. I have only met an M3 or M4 on two of my 7 interviews so far. I guess I could try the email thing but I am going to wait until I have acceptances from the schools so I don't waste anyone’s time.
 
Great thread...

You must be a doctor now. Congratulations! :thumbup:
 
This old post gets its annual bump for not only the OP but a lot of excellent replies and interesting discussion.
 
greg1184 said:
This old post gets its annual bump for not only the OP but a lot of excellent replies and interesting discussion.
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and rightly so
great post
ill be sure to dig this up when im applying in 2-3 years :)meanie:)
:thumbup:
 
For those wanting to know how to get realistic info about 3rd/4th year:
- alumni! You can get in touch with the school's alumni association and ask them for contacts, perhaps even in your own city. Warning: more than a few years out, rotations can change drastically; you will need people who have only just graduated.
- get in touch with the admissions office and ask them for the names of a few 4th-yr students you can contact. April-May-early June is the super-slacker time for MS4s, and we have enough spare time to talk to anyone who will listen.
 
More opinions about 3rd and 4th yrs at specific schools? please?
 
I think the 4th year idea is a great idea....mainly because they are just jaded enough to be honest with you.....but not a jaded enough resident to tell you a bunch of trash talking
 
I will bump for the sake of ongoing interviews
 
To the OP


If you don't mind, could you give me some tips on how to ask some of those questions without seeming rude or like you are asking about something you really know nothing about (which is how I would kind of feel as of right now...I would basically be asking about scut work based on your post and Grey's)

Thanks!
 
time to bump this?

i would love more 4th year input actually. with revisits coming up, i'm trying to compile some good questions. anyone?
 
That original post is quite outstanding. Thanks Jolt for bumping.
 
This is a fantastic post. Thanks to Mike (originally) and for bumping.
 
Just ran across this thread and bookmarked it. An oldie but a goody.
 
While I disagree with some elements of the original post, some good stuff in this thread.
 
Definitely the most informative thread I've seen on SDN.... thanks MikeS; hows that Neurosurgery thing going?
 
Crap can't believe I didn't see this thread before starting my interviews. I definitely plan on taking it's advice to heart with those I have left.
 
BTW, I second the suggestions w.r.t. asking students instead of interviewers. In an interview recently, I asked the guy a few of these questions and he wasn't too happy or helpful.

Same Q's to student tour guide: gave me the info no prob.

The tour guide is your friend.
 
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I am currently finishing my residency at UCSF (last year) and am going to start a job doing brain tumors, and skull base surgery
 
bumpitty bump bump

-For those who are trying to decide which program they should attend. Here's a classic post with a list of the important (& not-so important) things to consider.

:cool:
 
MikeS 78 said:
I am currently finishing my residency at UCSF (last year) and am going to start a job doing brain tumors, and skull base surgery
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underachiever
 
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o.o this thread has been necrobumped so many times for the past 4 years
not that its a bad post or anything, just o.o
 
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Excellent post.

Sticky material for sure!
 
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