Application trouble...advice needed for becoming an MD

[stephanpo]

Hey SDN,

Earlier this week I posted about when to expect interview invites.. However, having been rejected from 6 schools with no interview invites thus far I have began to think of back up plans if worst comes to worst and I have to reapply..

First off, here are my stats and activities:
oGPA:3.66
sGPA:3.60
MCAT 34(11,10,13)
Applied to 24 schools, rejected by 6 (3 reach, 3 non-reach, and a hold on my in state school)

2 years club lacrosse at college
2 years head lacrosse coach for a middle school
2 neuroscience research labs (1 year each, no pubs)
3 years public health non-profit/student club (treasurer for 1 year)
2 years at-risk youth tutoring/mentoring
1.5 years of emergency room volunteering
1.5 years trauma center volunteering
shadowed a physician for a few days
1 year assistant coach for a high school lacrosse team
4 years of interest in physical fitness/running
councilor at a retreat for families with HIV/AIDS for two weeks
1 year of physics/o-chem tutoring (once a week)
spent 3 months in France taking french language courses

Got LOR from other head lacrosse coach, Head of public health non-profit (was a TA for one of my classes as well, and now has his PhD), Physician I shadowed, Animal Phys professor, and Spanish teacher.

I think that my weaknesses in my application are my non-elite GPA, lack of research (pubs/didnt get a lot out of my research experiences), and possibly my LOR..didn't get one from my research PI...could be a red flag maybe??

So, if worst comes to worst I was thinking about applying to a MPH program and doing that for 2 years. Not only am I interested in public health, but I think it would give me the opportunity to better those weaknesses in my application.

I applied to some med schools as back ups, but realistically am not sure I would attend there if I got in..This being said, should I withdraw those 4 applications that still haven't given me a response? The reason being that I heard that if you get accepted somewhere, and don't take the acceptance but instead reapply next cycle that all the schools can see this and you are somewhat "black listed" (not sure if this is actually true...)

So I guess what I am trying to say is, is it worth it to pull those applications that I don't think I would actually attend, and apply to MPH programs as a back up? And would going through an MPH program (assuming I improve my gpa..which will happen), doing research while there, getting better LOR, and obtaining a graduate degree really improve my chances at matriculating to a top research school such as Stanford, UCLA, Harvard, etc...? also, how does reapplying affect my chances? Are adcoms much harder on you the second time around?

Long post, but I would really appreciate any valuable feedback that anyone has, or any past experiences with this situation..

Thank you!!

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[Moosepig]

A medical school is a medical school. I think you should ride the cycle out and take any acceptance you get. Why waste all that time, life and money for the chance at a high tier that won't benefit you much over going to a more middling school?

 

[stephanpo]

A medical school is a medical school. I think you should ride the cycle out and take any acceptance you get. Why waste all that time, life and money for the chance at a high tier that won't benefit you much over going to a more middling school?

I definitely understand what you are saying. I am still undecided about that part of my question, but lets assume I don't receive any acceptance. Would the MPH route as I described be worth it/give me a better chance at a top school?

 

[Moosepig]

I definitely understand what you are saying. I am still undecided about that part of my question, but lets assume I don't receive any acceptance. Would the MPH route as I described be worth it/give me a better chance at a top school?

If you have substantial research during that time, I do think it would help you out.

 

[Anathema]

So you were complete by Sept 1? That late date may be a reason although you were advised to apply earlier last year too. Do you mind divulging your school list? If you're gunning for those top schools I have a feeling you didn't apply as broadly as you say you did. Your stats are great so I'm not sure what else would be the problem.

 

[gyngyn]

If your desire to attend a "top school" results in becoming a reapplicant you have effectively shot yourself in the foot.

 

[occams_razor]

you have great stats so I'm not sure what's holding you back. your list may have been not broad enough/too many top schools

 

[Goro]

Concur here...unless you have a red flag in your package, like a bad LOR, or a felony or multiple DUIs. Try contacting the Admissions Deans from the schools you were rejected form to see if they can give you any feedback.

you have great stats so I'm not sure what's holding you back. your list may have been not broad enough/too many top schools

 

[stephanpo]

Concur here...unless you have a red flag in your package, like a bad LOR, or a felony or multiple DUIs. Try contacting the Admissions Deans from the schools you were rejected form to see if they can give you any feedback.

Thanks for the input guys. These are the schools I have applied to:
UArizona-hold
UCSD
UCLA
USC
UCSF-Rejected
Stanford
UChicago-Rejected
Northwestern
Rosalind Franklin
Georgetown-Rejected
Brown-Rejected
Vanderbilt-Rejected
Dartmouth
NYU
Columbia
Cornell
Yale
Harvard
UPenn
Drexel
Jefferson
Temple
Tufts
UBoston-Rejected

I feel like I applied somewhat broadly, but possibly too many top tier. I dont have any red flags on my application (that I know of..LOR?). Any more advice about the MPH?

 

[hizziaips]

Thanks for the input guys. These are the schools I have applied to:
UArizona-hold
UCSD
UCLA
USC
UCSF-Rejected
Stanford
UChicago-Rejected
Northwestern
Rosalind Franklin
Georgetown-Rejected
Brown-Rejected
Vanderbilt-Rejected
Dartmouth
NYU
Columbia
Cornell
Yale
Harvard
UPenn
Drexel
Jefferson
Temple
Tufts
UBoston-Rejected

I feel like I applied somewhat broadly, but possibly too many top tier. I dont have any red flags on my application (that I know of..LOR?). Any more advice about the MPH?

Simply put, this list is extremely top-heavy. Even the lower-tier schools (with the exception of possibly U of Arizona) on this list are tough because they receive 10K+ applications per year.

 

[gyngyn]

I count 5 schools where you have a decent chance at an interview. Good luck!

 

[stephanpo]

Thank you all for the input. However, considering that I am not able to change my list of schools/do much of anything about this cycle, I need some more advice about my back up plan (mph program) and if that is a good idea if I do not get in somewhere this cycle.

 

[theseeker4]

Thank you all for the input. However, considering that I am not able to change my list of schools/do much of anything about this cycle, I need some more advice about my back up plan (mph program) and if that is a good idea if I do not get in somewhere this cycle.

At this point an MPH would be just getting started, meaning not likely to have any real effect on your application, by the time you apply next cycle. Do you really want to sit out next cycle, and apply the cycle after that? Applying next cycle, less top heavy and on June 1st, will almost certainly gain you some acceptances, so would the potential advantage of a MPH degree be worth becoming a doctor another year later?

 

[gyngyn]

Thank you all for the input. However, considering that I am not able to change my list of schools/do much of anything about this cycle, I need some more advice about my back up plan (mph program) and if that is a good idea if I do not get in somewhere this cycle.

Master's degrees have little overall effect on an application. They may however add to your understanding of a physician's place and potential in society and thus have intrinsic worth.

 

[stephanpo]

At this point an MPH would be just getting started, meaning not likely to have any real effect on your application, by the time you apply next cycle. Do you really want to sit out next cycle, and apply the cycle after that? Applying next cycle, less top heavy and on June 1st, will almost certainly gain you some acceptances, so would the potential advantage of a MPH degree be worth becoming a doctor another year later?

If I didn't get in anywhere this cycle and decided to do the MPH route I would most definitely be reapplying to MD schools not this upcoming cycle, but the cycle after that. That way I would be able to have a year of post-grad GPA, significant research, more life experience, and more meaningful LOR. I'm not too worried about the amount of time it takes me to get into a MD school, but more worried about getting into a school somewhere I would like to live for four years, that has awesome research opportunities, great facilities, innovative curriculum, gives me the greatest opportunities to succeed, etc.

 

[ljpm8224]

If I didn't get in anywhere this cycle and decided to do the MPH route I would most definitely be reapplying to MD schools not this upcoming cycle, but the cycle after that. That way I would be able to have a year of post-grad GPA, significant research, more life experience, and more meaningful LOR. I'm not too worried about the amount of time it takes me to get into a MD school, but more worried about getting into a school somewhere I would like to live for four years, that has awesome research opportunities, great facilities, innovative curriculum, gives me the greatest opportunities to succeed, etc.

Same with everyone else, and that's your problem. The only "weakness" in your application are that you're a CA resident (guessing?) who is applying to competitive schools in highly desirable locations.

Add more midwestern and other OOS friendly schools to your next application cycle.

Also, MPH won't help your next round of aps all that much. If you are determined for a masters, I'd go with something research-based. GL!

 

[stephanpo]

Same with everyone else, and that's your problem. The only "weakness" in your application are that you're a CA resident (guessing?) who is applying to competitive schools in highly desirable locations.

Add more midwestern and other OOS friendly schools to your next application cycle.

Also, MPH won't help your next round of aps all that much. If you are determined for a masters, I'd go with something research-based. GL!

Az resident.. Ca public schools were kinda a shot in the dark. But if mph isn't the best thing to do to improve my chances for reapplication (if necessary) then what is? What do you mean by something more research based?

 

[ljpm8224]

I'm doing a Masters of Medicine right now, if you'd like you can PM me and I can tell you more specifics about the program, what we're doing, admissions requirements, etc.

I dunno... perhaps I am not enough in the know, however the vibe I have seen around here is the MPH programs are seen as a little more ... fluffy/fun than they heavier science grad programs.

 

[Goro]

Yeah, I think you're aiming too high as well
You should have your best luck with

USC
Northwestern
Rosalind Franklin
Drexel
Jefferson
Temple

Add some more mid-tier schools tot he list, also low-tiers like NYMC

I feel like I applied somewhat broadly, but possibly too many top tier. I dont have any red flags on my application (that I know of..LOR?). Any more advice about the MPH?[/QUOTE]

 

[stephanpo]

So if MPH as a back up plan is not the answer then what is? I am interested in obtaining a MPH if I don't get in this cycle before reapplying, but essentially my dream is to be a MD. What will give me the highest chance at admittance, and make me more competitive at these top tier schools?

 

[huskydock]

So if MPH as a back up plan is not the answer then what is? I am interested in obtaining a MPH if I don't get in this cycle before reapplying, but essentially my dream is to be a MD. What will give me the highest chance at admittance, and make me more competitive at these top tier schools?

Don't do a MPH as a means to an end because you think it'll make you more competitive. Do a MPH because you REALLY want to. Otherwise, it will be a pretty big waste of time when you could honestly be matriculating next year. Upon looking at your stats (which you claim is "non-elite", but is still very good) and your ECs, your application isn't the problem at all. You're already fairly competitive for some top tier schools. But the reality is that even 3.8+/35+ applicants have a tough time breaking into the top tiers. So really, you can keep trying and trying until you finally get an interview, but you will have been much better off just getting accepted at any medical school. Most medical schools will provide all the resources you need to succeed. Just gun for top notch residencies if you're so hung up on the prestige.

 

[stephanpo]

Don't do a MPH as a means to an end because you think it'll make you more competitive. Do a MPH because you REALLY want to. Otherwise, it will be a pretty big waste of time when you could honestly be matriculating next year. Upon looking at your stats (which you claim is "non-elite", but is still very good) and your ECs, your application isn't the problem at all. You're already fairly competitive for some top tier schools. But the reality is that even 3.8+/35+ applicants have a tough time breaking into the top tiers. So really, you can keep trying and trying until you finally get an interview, but you will have been much better off just getting accepted at any medical school. Most medical schools will provide all the resources you need to succeed. Just gun for top notch residencies if you're so hung up on the prestige.

I agree with you, and if I get accepted this cycle I will be taking it. However, It is Nov 12th and I have yet to get an interview invite. I am at the point where I need to start preparing for a back up plan to improve my chances for an upcoming cycle (one or two years in the future). Are there any suggestions about what I could do to improve my chances at getting in if I do not gain an acceptance this cycle? I understand that there is not necessarily a check list of things you need to do to get accepted into a high tier school, but applicants with similar stats as mine get in every year. I would enjoy doing a MPH program, doing some research, as well as working as an EMT for a year or two. That is my plan so far, but if anyone has any other suggestions after reviewing my activities, stats, etc then please let me know.

 

[gyngyn]

You just need to apply to at least a dozen schools that might interview you. I count 5, maybe. Your stats are good, your strategy is weak. With any luck at all you will get some in state love and all this will be remembered fondly!

 

[stephanpo]

You just need to apply to at least a dozen schools that might interview you. I count 5, maybe. Your stats are good, your strategy is weak. With any luck at all you will get some in state love and all this will be remembered fondly!

Yes, I understand. However, I cannot currently change where I applied to. I do not necessarily need advice for this cycle seeing as I cannot do too much about where I applied, etc. And also, I cannot just apply again next cycle and change nothing about my application. Any school I re-apply to will be looking for how I bettered my application, right?

So once again, does any one have any advice about improving my application if I do not receive any acceptances this cycle?

 

[gyngyn]

If you are unsuccessful this year, alter your strategy: apply to enough schools that might interview you and you will get in as long as you can articulate how you will be of service in those interviews.