Apply or Wait . . . Low GPA

[deleted92121]

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26 y/o white male with 2.78 cuGPA and 3.37 sciGPA and 28 MCAT according to AACOMAS and their retake policy (only applying osteopathic due to retake policy and being more open to non-trads).

Non-science research and internship
Volunteer experience in numerous areas
Leadership experience
8 years in EMS as EMT and Paramedic
EMS teaching experience
Strong LOR

Problems in the middle of my academic career, numerous retakes. Still a few Fs on transcript. Tried getting them expunged, didn't work. Only option is retake them, which would take a lot of money I don't have.

Anyone have any ideas or advice on what to do? Should I take more general courses, science courses, etc? I figure if I can raise my overall GPA to a 3.0 or so while raising my sciGPA, I could be in decent shape.

Thanks for any input. Good luck to everyone.

DU

 

[FrkyBgStok]

You definitely need to raise your cGPA to over 3.0 that way you don't get automatically cut off from many schools. And the schools that don't automatically reject you, they will see your 2.78 and throw out your app because it is below many non-official cutoff numbers. Retake whatever you have to and get above a 3.0. With Fs that should only need to be one or two classes.

 

[DrMidlife]

DMU has a hard 3.0 autoscreen, but a lot of DO schools don't.

I suggest doing hard prep for the MCAT and get the highest score you can.

If you can beat 30, score in hand, by August, start DO apps.

Otherwise, look into the masters programs hosted at DO schools. These are very similar to MD SMPs, in that the host med school grooms low-stat students for med school admission.

Best of luck to you.

 

[QofQuimica]

Let me get this straight: you have enough money that you're willing to waste several hundred dollars on sending out apps with a GPA so low it will slam most if not all doors in your face, but you don't have enough money to retake the few classes you got Fs in so that you can raise your GPA to something in a reasonable range? That makes exactly zero sense to me.

Look, if you go to medical school, your finances are going to get a lot worse before they get better. So don't be penny wise and pound foolish; if you're going to do this thing, then do it right the first time. That means retaking all of your Ds and Fs so that you can raise your GPA to something competitive enough that you have a realistic chance of success in the app process. There's no earthly reason why you should even be thinking about applying with that GPA, *especially* to DO schools. They have that grade replacement policy for a reason, and it would be foolish not to take advantage of it.

 

[deleted92121]

Let me get this straight: you have enough money that you're willing to waste several hundred dollars on sending out apps with a GPA so low it will slam most if not all doors in your face, but you don't have enough money to retake the few classes you got Fs in so that you can raise your GPA to something in a reasonable range? That makes exactly zero sense to me.

Look, if you go to medical school, your finances are going to get a lot worse before they get better. So don't be penny wise and pound foolish; if you're going to do this thing, then do it right the first time. That means retaking all of your Ds and Fs so that you can raise your GPA to something competitive enough that you have a realistic chance of success in the app process. There's no earthly reason why you should even be thinking about applying with that GPA, *especially* to DO schools. They have that grade replacement policy for a reason, and it would be foolish not to take advantage of it.

Blunt with no punches pulled. I like that.

You have a very good point and one that makes more sense than my idea. Thanks for the advice.

DU

 

[QofQuimica]

Blunt with no punches pulled. I like that.

Heh. I just hate to see people setting themselves up to fail out of sheer cussedness. 😉

All kidding aside, I've been on both sides of the process (as a student adcom and as an applicant myself), and I feel very strongly that applicants should do everything they reasonably can in order to make their first attempt at applying be their only attempt. If you've never applied before, it's hard to fully appreciate how frustrating and demoralizing it is when all those thin envelopes keep showing up in your mailbox. Not to mention the wasted money and time if you have to reapply.

 

[deleted92121]

Heh. I just hate to see people setting themselves up to fail out of sheer cussedness. 😉

All kidding aside, I've been on both sides of the process (as a student adcom and as an applicant myself), and I feel very strongly that applicants should do everything they reasonably can in order to make their first attempt at applying be their only attempt. If you've never applied before, it's hard to fully appreciate how frustrating and demoralizing it is when all those thin envelopes keep showing up in your mailbox. Not to mention the wasted money and time if you have to reapply.

You really do provide a great way of looking at the situation. I appreciate the time you took to respond.

A few of the courses I received failing grades in were at another university. I spoke with them earlier and they said they would allow me to retake the four classes via distance. It's $2500 but most likely worth it. If I have anything going for me its the fact my GPA over the past 60 credits has been a 3.5. I definitely am trying, just some more work to do. It will be worth it.

Thanks again,

DU

 

[DrMidlife]

A few of the courses I received failing grades in were at another university. I spoke with them earlier and they said they would allow me to retake the four classes via distance. It's $2500 but most likely worth it.

You don't have to do retakes at the same school. You can take the same class at a more convenient and/or less expensive school.

 

[deleted92121]

You don't have to do retakes at the same school. You can take the same class at a more convenient and/or less expensive school.

These are very specific classes for a particular major.

It may help to know I had significant work and personal issues including death and hospitalization during these courses. Its not that I failed them due to difficulty, rather due to not going to class and never filling out the appropriate paperwork for withdrawal. I spoke with the administration but they were not sympathetic. I own up to my mistakes but I also don't believe these mistakes should dictate my future in such an extensive manner. I suppose I will right the wrongs and hope that is enough to get where I want to be.

 

[Summa637]

Gosh I just think the GPA is a major red flag...

 

[QofQuimica]

I own up to my mistakes but I also don't believe these mistakes should dictate my future in such an extensive manner.

I agree, and there's no reason why they should have to when AACOMAS gives you a way to make up for them. And you're right; it will be worth it. In a few years, you can come back here and straight talk some other premed who's talking crazy. 😉

I suppose I will right the wrongs and hope that is enough to get where I want to be.

That's the spirit. It's not easy to make that kind of comeback, but it can be done. You should read the low GPA success story thread if you haven't already; link is in the FAQs sticky.

 

[Jlaw]

These are very specific classes for a particular major.

It may help to know I had significant work and personal issues including death and hospitalization during these courses. Its not that I failed them due to difficulty, rather due to not going to class and never filling out the appropriate paperwork for withdrawal. I spoke with the administration but they were not sympathetic. I own up to my mistakes but I also don't believe these mistakes should dictate my future in such an extensive manner. I suppose I will right the wrongs and hope that is enough to get where I want to be.

I don't think you are SOL but like Q says, applying is not cheap. With your GPA you need to apply to ~25 schools. I applied to 23 and it cost me around 800 for primaries and around 1,500 for secondaries. Add on interfolio charges and about 5k in travel/hotel/food/rental car costs for my interviews and its an expensive game. You're applying to go to school and rack up around 250k in debt, don't skimp out at this stage.

I don't want you to be overly hopefuly but I didn't meet minimum GPA or MCAT requirements for a bunch of schools and still got interviews. I also didn't get alot of interviews because of my stats. In the end its up to you...maybe you should split the difference and start retaking classes while you apply so you have your bases covered either way. If your heart is set on medical school money shouldn't enter your mind because you need to be prepared to be poor and in debt for a long time....another 10k in undergrad tuition is a drop in the bucket compared to what you will rack up in loans and interest as a medical student and minimum wage resident.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Okay, you said they'll let you take these courses via distance. That means they have to be lecture based. I'd search around for the same major at other schools and see what you find. Maybe you can find another school with that major? With all the schools & universities in this country I'm skeptical this school is the only one with that major. Also, no you shouldn't apply with a 2.78 unless you want to be rejected. It took me 80 credits of A work, including some retakes, to get my cGPA to 3.18. It isn't a short process.

 

[KOIS]

I'm going to piggyback off of the OP. Let me first explain that I didn't want to be in school, but my parents placed so much pressure on me to be a role model for my younger brother on top of that I got really good grades in high school and was expected to go to college, but I was pretty much a recluse. I got to college and only wanted to party and have fun, because I missed out in high school. I majored in Psych with the intention of taking premed courses. I only took BIO-I (C), BIO-II (Molecular BIO) (D), and Physics (D, while pledging). After performing less than mediocre in those premed courses I gave up on premed and just focused on my psych degree. I ended up with an uGPA of 2.65. Now, I realize my mistake, but I just hope it isn't too late. I've been in the workforce as a Mental Health Technician, which is pretty much a CNA, in Psych hospitals (clinical experience) for over a year and it's bottom feeder, grunt work. I hate being an assistant so I prefer an MD/DO, but PA is my back up plan. I have plans to take Gen. Chem I & II this summer at a local community college. As for the other classes: 1) should I retake those BIO classes, 2) should I take the upper-lvl courses (Physics, Orgo, etc.) at a 4 yr. program or is a community college good enough, 3) would an informal post-bacc (me just taking classes) hinder my chances into med school VS. a formal post-bacc program with advisers and the whole nine? Any advice, suggestions, WORDS OF HOPE!!!???

 

[dmf2682]

Any advice, suggestions, WORDS OF HOPE!!!???

Join a drug cartel, get high up in it and then turn yourself in to the feds in exchange for joining the witness protection program. Then start taking classes with your new identity and academic state of mind.

Or you can move to Texas and hang out for a few years.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

I'm going to piggyback off of the OP. Let me first explain that I didn't want to be in school, but my parents placed so much pressure on me to be a role model for my younger brother on top of that I got really good grades in high school and was expected to go to college, but I was pretty much a recluse. I got to college and only wanted to party and have fun, because I missed out in high school. I majored in Psych with the intention of taking premed courses. I only took BIO-I (C), BIO-II (Molecular BIO) (D), and Physics (D, while pledging). After performing less than mediocre in those premed courses I gave up on premed and just focused on my psych degree. I ended up with an uGPA of 2.65. Now, I realize my mistake, but I just hope it isn't too late. I've been in the workforce as a Mental Health Technician, which is pretty much a CNA, in Psych hospitals (clinical experience) for over a year and it's bottom feeder, grunt work. I hate being an assistant so I prefer an MD/DO, but PA is my back up plan. I have plans to take Gen. Chem I & II this summer at a local community college. As for the other classes: 1) should I retake those BIO classes, 2) should I take the upper-lvl courses (Physics, Orgo, etc.) at a 4 yr. program or is a community college good enough, 3) would an informal post-bacc (me just taking classes) hinder my chances into med school VS. a formal post-bacc program with advisers and the whole nine? Any advice, suggestions, WORDS OF HOPE!!!???

PA is NOT a good backup plan, they have more applicants per school than many of the DO/MD schools. There was a thread last year that talked about getting into med school being easier than getting into PA school. The only 'easier' part is not having to take the MCAT.

You need a combination: you need to retake anything D/F and use AACOMAS (you are basically a DO-only candidate imho) for grade replacement. If you can retake anything with Cs as well that will help. In addition, finishing all your pre-reqs and getting solid As will also be required. I would guess you have at least 3 years worth of GPA repair to do before you should consider applying. It isn't hopeless, but you have a lot of work to do...

 

[COMedic2Doc]

PA is NOT a good backup plan, they have more applicants per school than many of the DO/MD schools. There was a thread last year that talked about getting into med school being easier than getting into PA school. The only 'easier' part is not having to take the MCAT.

You need a combination: you need to retake anything D/F and use AACOMAS (you are basically a DO-only candidate imho) for grade replacement. If you can retake anything with Cs as well that will help. In addition, finishing all your pre-reqs and getting solid As will also be required. I would guess you have at least 3 years worth of GPA repair to do before you should consider applying. It isn't hopeless, but you have a lot of work to do...

+1. Re-take classes now, as many have already stated. In the end, this game called applying will go much easier and less expensive. Then when you're ready to apply, get your AACOMAS in early. Good luck!

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

I suggest doing hard prep for the MCAT and get the highest score you can.

This is way down the road. MCAT prep should wait until the GPA is in the realm where an application will be successful.

 

[deleted92121]

Quick update. Been given the go-ahead by the dean of the school I attend previously to not only retake those few courses but also complete the degree I started previously, thus allowing me to forgo my current major (which I find dull and pointless). It is convoluted but this is a really excellent thing. I wrote them and told them I screwed up, plain and simple. They appreciated the honesty and said ok, come one back. Very excited. This means only one semester left instead of three. It is amazing what some ambition and humility will get you (and some great advice from my non-trad friends on SDN).

DU

 

[notbobtrustme]

PA is NOT a good backup plan, they have more applicants per school than many of the DO/MD schools. There was a thread last year that talked about getting into med school being easier than getting into PA school. The only 'easier' part is not having to take the MCAT.

Not to mention the fact that you need between 500 and 1000+ hours of clinical exposure, which can take 6-12+ months to obtain.

 

[Prncssbuttercup]

Good news DXU, glad to hear you're moving forward!

Notbob, that is another good reason, but for some people it is moot, and has this changed dramatically? When I made a spreadsheet a while back (09ish) about PA schools, I didn't see that many schools needing too many hours of work. Additionally, they were super flexible at many schools about what counted and what didn't... Like I met the criterion by having worked in a plasma center PT for 2 years...