Apply to Psychiatry with low COMLEX, no step?

[hangtrenmang]

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Hi everyone,
I hope to have some inputs. I got my comlex 1 = 475. I don't want to take step because I am afraid I may get a low score or not pass it. Is it realistic for me to apply to psychiatry? I heard from people that it becomes more competitive. I am currently a 3rd year. I am trying to learn to make sure that I can improve for level 2. I really appreciate your time.
Thanks,

 

[Psychresy]

yes, it is realistic to apply to psychiatry. Do better on COMLEX 2 and consider studying really hard and sitting for step 1.

 

[m2k]

yes, it is realistic to apply to psychiatry. Do better on COMLEX 2 and consider studying really hard and sitting for step 1.

Don't you still have to report Complex1 & 2 scores? If so, why bother Step 1 since is now 1 is now pass/fail. Maybe in future they'll make Complex 1 pass/fail also.

Isn't Compex 1 and 2 enough, why do Steps? What's the advantage of it. Before merger of residencies, you have to do Steps to apply in MD residencies. This maybe a little off topic but OP does well Complex 2, shouldn't this be enough?

 

[risperdoll]

Don't you still have to report Complex1 & 2 scores? If so, why bother Step 1 since is now 1 is now pass/fail. Maybe in future they'll make Complex 1 pass/fail also.

Isn't Compex 1 and 2 enough, why do Steps? What's the advantage of it. Before merger of residencies, you have to do Steps to apply in MD residencies. This maybe a little off topic but OP does well Complex 2, shouldn't this be enough?

Some residencies will still see (even a low) Step 1 score and give preference to these applicants. It’s stupid but unfortunately true. But if OP isn’t within a comfortable margin of passing, I would recommend against even trying. While DOs don’t have to report Step exam scores, it’s an added stress and unnecessary expense.

 

[risperdoll]

Hi everyone,
I hope to have some inputs. I got my comlex 1 = 475. I don't want to take step because I am afraid I may get a low score or not pass it. Is it realistic for me to apply to psychiatry? I heard from people that it becomes more competitive. I am currently a 3rd year. I am trying to learn to make sure that I can improve for level 2. I really appreciate your time.
Thanks,

You got this! I raised my score from 445 on Level 1 to 578 Level 2, which is about 40 percentile points. That terrible feeling in the pit of your stomach when you see that sub-500 score really sucks, so feel free to PM me if you need an anonymous stranger who understands.

 

[Psychresy]

Don't you still have to report Complex1 & 2 scores? If so, why bother Step 1 since is now 1 is now pass/fail. Maybe in future they'll make Complex 1 pass/fail also.

Isn't Compex 1 and 2 enough, why do Steps? What's the advantage of it. Before merger of residencies, you have to do Steps to apply in MD residencies. This maybe a little off topic but OP does well Complex 2, shouldn't this be enough?

It would put you on more even playing field with others who are taking steps. Step is an clear cut harder exam. I think showing you can pass a harder exam would speak well.

 

[m2k]

It would put you on more even playing field with others who are taking steps. Step is an clear cut harder exam. I think showing you can pass a harder exam would speak well.

I think it is other way around. Complex is a little harder than Step.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

These last two comments exemplify why some programs require steps and why they like comparing apples to apples.

 

[m2k]

These last two comments exemplify why some programs require steps and why they like comparing apples to apples.

I think it will change over time. It's older program directors/doctors those don't want to spend time to understand. If I have good Complex score, I wouldn't bother with Steps. Now step 1 is pass/fail.

 

[Psychresy]

I think it is other way around. Complex is a little harder than Step.

Having taken step 1/2 and comlex 1/2 I would whole-heartedly disagree. I will agree comlex is a more terribly written test which introduces its own challenges, but in terms of knowledge required, step requires much broader and deeper knowledge. By memorizing viscerosomatics, basic OMM, and buzz words of common diseases you can very easily pass comlex. Most PDs and residents I have talked to are under the impression step is the more difficult test, and since those are the ones an applicant is trying to impress, I would consider taking it.

 

[m2k]

Having taken step 1/2 and comlex 1/2 I would whole-heartedly disagree. I will agree comlex is a more terribly written test which introduces its own challenges, but in terms of knowledge required, step requires much broader and deeper knowledge. By memorizing viscerosomatics, basic OMM, and buzz words of common diseases you can very easily pass comlex. Most PDs and residents I have talked to are under the impression step is the more difficult test, and since those are the ones an applicant is trying to impress, I would consider taking it.

I don't disagree that PDs are used to seeing Steps and you're trying to impress them. I was just talking about the merit of knowledge you need to pass Complex and Steps. How can you memorize disease names and not that the concept, it is absurd. You need to know same content in both tests. It is subjective if test it terribly written. I have not taken it yet. But If I did well, I'll say it is the best written test and of course if not did well, I'll blame the test lol.

 

[hungrydoc710]

If you can take Step 1 and pass it (even a 200), you should.
Those who have a first time passing score on Step will have an advantage over those with just a low Level 1, like yourself.

That being said, psych is getting more competitive, but generally you should be fine. Do better next round.
Consider taking Step 2 - there is talk that psych classically likes USMLE exams over COMLEX.

Good luck.

 

[hungrydoc710]

Don't you still have to report Complex1 & 2 scores? If so, why bother Step 1 since is now 1 is now pass/fail. Maybe in future they'll make Complex 1 pass/fail also.

Isn't Compex 1 and 2 enough, why do Steps? What's the advantage of it. Before merger of residencies, you have to do Steps to apply in MD residencies. This maybe a little off topic but OP does well Complex 2, shouldn't this be enough?

COMLEX***

Step 1 isn't P/F until current MS1's take it. Current MS2's are getting it scored.

Taking (and passing) Step gives you a significant advantage over solely COMLEX 1 takers.
This also may depend on your interest, but the general idea is take both, pass both for more options.

 

[phagocytosis41]

Having taken step 1/2 and comlex 1/2 I would whole-heartedly disagree. I will agree comlex is a more terribly written test which introduces its own challenges, but in terms of knowledge required, step requires much broader and deeper knowledge. By memorizing viscerosomatics, basic OMM, and buzz words of common diseases you can very easily pass comlex. Most PDs and residents I have talked to are under the impression step is the more difficult test, and since those are the ones an applicant is trying to impress, I would consider taking it.

I disagree, I did way better on Step 1 than COMLEX and I'm not the best test taker. For me COMLEX's questions were so badly worded, that it didn't matter how much harder Step was. But for most, Step is the harder one. I'm just so glad I took step 1, and that was after getting a below average score on COMLEX. I did above average on Step 1. The morale of the story.. it's not impossible to do well on Step after doing bad on COMLEX.

 

[phagocytosis41]

Hi everyone,
I hope to have some inputs. I got my comlex 1 = 475. I don't want to take step because I am afraid I may get a low score or not pass it. Is it realistic for me to apply to psychiatry? I heard from people that it becomes more competitive. I am currently a 3rd year. I am trying to learn to make sure that I can improve for level 2. I really appreciate your time.
Thanks,

Study hard for and if you're ready, Take Step 1. I did a little better on COMLEX 1 than you and got a step 1 score that is competitive for Psych. Work hard and make it happen... I took Step 1 in Jan of MS3 but it wasn't easy on top of studying for NBME Shelves and doing well on rotations.
But believe me, you're at a big disadvantage if you don't take and do well on Step 1. Psych is becoming much more competitive and most places need a Step 1 or at least a 'competitive' COMLEX 1. Your issue isn't not taking a Step 1, it's taking only COMLEX 1 and doing below average. If you did at least average on COMLEX 1, you probably wouldn't need Step 1 to match. Given you didn't do great on COMLEX 1, Step 1 is probably a necessity, unless you have a connection with a PD.

 

[Psychresy]

I don't disagree that PDs are used to seeing Steps and you're trying to impress them. I was just talking about the merit of knowledge you need to pass Complex and Steps. How can you memorize disease names and not that the concept, it is absurd. You need to know same content in both tests. It is subjective if test it terribly written. I have not taken it yet. But If I did well, I'll say it is the best written test and of course if not did well, I'll blame the test lol.

Out of curiosity, how can you say how difficult comlex is compared to step never having taken it?

And as far as memorizing disease names and buzz words...I can tell you "podocyte fusion" means minimal change disease. I can't tell you a lick of anything about minimal change disease other than I think it's most common in kids.. maybe.

 

[kopftonmd]

I think it will change over time. It's older program directors/doctors those don't want to spend time to understand. If I have good Complex score, I wouldn't bother with Steps. Now step 1 is pass/fail.

Well, step 1 isn't pass/fail *quite* yet... (2022 at the earliest, per the USMLE)

 

[hungrydoc710]

I think it will change over time. It's older program directors/doctors those don't want to spend time to understand. If I have good Complex score, I wouldn't bother with Steps. Now step 1 is pass/fail.

Not taking Step reads: this person didn't think they could pass (a harder, better test) and therefore didn't take it.

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

My comments about how respected Comlex scores vs USMLE were not intended to reflect my views. I tried hard to mention “programs”, and I assume everyone knows this when they read “older program directors” it wasn’t aimed at me, but I stand behind what I said. You are better off with steps and this isn’t showing signs of changing yet. Bombing a step will not help, but otherwise it helps.

 

[Kr#36]

I think it is other way around. Complex is a little harder than Step.

Absolutely not. Comlex is just a poorly written exam. Step is much harder.

 

[swamzi]

I took both. I would say psychiatry is getting much more competitive than when I matched in 2015. Keep studying hard, take STEPs as well, and do better next time

 

[risperdoll]

People in this thread are saying some very real things, but saying you can’t match at ALL without Step 1 unless you know the PD is just fear mongering. See the post at the link below for a good example. The poster did an audition where they matched, so I guess that might count as knowing the PD? But either way, don’t freak out. There are tons of former AOA programs and small community programs that won’t rule you out. If you don’t feel like you can pass, or don’t want to take the time away from studying for rotations and spend the money to take it, you’ll be okay. I’m just a fourth year student myself, but every other DO student I’ve met on my current audition also didn’t take Step.

I matched midtier University Psych. AMA

So I've had numerous messages over the last couple of months about my experience applying psych and asking questions about the process. I'm always happy to share but I realize I'm repeating myself a lot, I have nothing to do but sit at home and wait for residency to start so I thought I'd start...

forums.studentdoctor.net

 

[MacDonaldTriad]

So the truth is in between. I agree we shouldn't fear monger, and you are better off with steps than you are without. This is not a diad and both are true.

 

[MusicDOc124]

I know numerous people personally who matched this year and last year with sub-500 and sub-450 COMLEX, no step. Some in university programs, some in other well-known programs (read no MGH/Yale/Penn by any means to be clear).

Step WILL help. BUT you do NOT need it with a 475 to match.

You do however have to be smart with where you apply/# of programs. And to complement your application, it would help if you had other factors about your app that stand out and/or suggest a longer term interest in psych.

 

[NontradCA]

Look at the charting outcomes for 2020. You scored roughly 25% on Level 1. For those applying psychiatry in 2020 with your score (~25% of applicants), ~75% matched. If you look at Step 1, both the 12.5% and 25% (20% of all applicants) show a match rate ~88%. Take from that what you will.

Now the question is could you score at the 12.5%-20% on Step 1? If you think you can, I'd say do it. Regarding your ability to match with your Comlex score alone. If we're solely looking at that and no other aspects of your application, I'd say the chances are still high you'd match.