Applying for first job post residency

[letmeinwillya]

How do the future employers decide on who to chose? Pretty much most residents out of residency would have zero to minimal full time work experience as a licensed/BE physician.

I apply to a job because I like the location and salary, is it pretty much done deal that if I do well on the interview, I would be selected.

What kind of things are they looking for? Are they simply looking for warm bodies when they look for fresh out of residency candidates? I'm in IM and of course new to the whole post residency employment scene.

I would appreciate your advice and recommendations.

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[Ladholyman]

I'm in the same boat. I'm a Peds PGY-3 and I have my first interview next Monday. I talked to my residency advisor who works as one of the clinic attendings and she basically said that employers basically want to sell their position to you and in return gauge how likely you are to work. It's a bit different from applying to medical school/residency since you are at a position where you are seeing eye-to-eye with the employer and not from a position below them.

 

[mvenus929]

They want to see if you'll fit in the group. In my position last year, I interviewed a solid handful of faculty candidates. All were being seriously considered by the time they were offered an interview (I think the division directors did some phone interviews first, and only invited the promising ones to interview), but it was very clear that some would fit very well in our institution and some would have a much harder time adjusting. Some were fresh out of fellowship, some had been an attending for a while. Some had a niche that we were looking to fill (a specific interest in their specialty that not everyone is interested in), and some were still finding their feet. FWIW, out of the 4 people that I remember interviewing, 3 were offered contracts and I'm fairly certain all of them accepted.

It's going to be institution dependent exactly what they are looking for. I'm in peds endo right now and we're hiring 1-2 new faculty to start next year (we interviewed 4 people to fill those positions). If they aren't interested in doing transgender care, it's going to be a strain on our department to hire them, because that's a particular need that we have right now that isn't being filled by our current physician/NP staff.

 

[letmeinwillya]

Thank you for your replies, much appreciated. I get it that it's different playing field from residency and med school. I'm trying to know how is zero experience post residency looked at by the employers? Do job descriptions say it out right and the compensation is commensurate with that? Where could I go to get a sense of realistic salaries that are being offered for my profile.

Also I'm PGY-3 IM, but haven't started looking yet..am I already late?

What's the skinny on part time jobs meaning fewer days or fewer hours? Heard that there're some states where primary care jobs are 4 days a week?

If my spouse has a job and I can get health insurance benefits through that, is doing locums a good option?

I know, too many questions but that's where I'm.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Thank you for your replies, much appreciated. I get it that it's different playing field from residency and med school. I'm trying to know how is zero experience post residency looked at by the employers? Do job descriptions say it out right and the compensation is commensurate with that? Where could I go to get a sense of realistic salaries that are being offered for my profile.

Also I'm PGY-3 IM, but haven't started looking yet..am I already late?

What's the skinny on part time jobs meaning fewer days or fewer hours? Heard that there're some states where primary care jobs are 4 days a week?

If my spouse has a job and I can get health insurance benefits through that, is doing locums a good option?

I know, too many questions but that's where I'm.

Employers know what they're getting with a new grad. After all, there are a bunch every year.

You're not too late, but I'd start looking nowish.

Most job postings won't mention pay. The interview often will. If not, ask.

The money isn't dependent on being a fresh grad, its based on the job itself and the location.

 

[gutonc]

Employers know what they're getting with a new grad. After all, there are a bunch every year.

You're not too late, but I'd start looking nowish.

Most job postings won't mention pay. The interview often will. If not, ask.

The money isn't dependent on being a fresh grad, its based on the job itself and the location.

Not always. Plenty of jobs, usually employed (Including the one I'm currently hiring for...no, not primary care) will have "salary commensurate with experience". We have a 4 year path to the max, with production bonuses with targets that start off low and increase with experience.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Not always. Plenty of jobs, usually employed (Including the one I'm currently hiring for...no, not primary care) will have "salary commensurate with experience". We have a 4 year path to the max, with production bonuses with targets that start off low and increase with experience.

I haven't seen that in primary care. Every job I've had/applied for had a set RVU value no matter your experience. You could sometimes use experience to negotiated more CME or a bigger signing bonus but that's all I've seen.

 

[mvenus929]

Thank you for your replies, much appreciated. I get it that it's different playing field from residency and med school. I'm trying to know how is zero experience post residency looked at by the employers? Do job descriptions say it out right and the compensation is commensurate with that? Where could I go to get a sense of realistic salaries that are being offered for my profile.

Also I'm PGY-3 IM, but haven't started looking yet..am I already late?

What's the skinny on part time jobs meaning fewer days or fewer hours? Heard that there're some states where primary care jobs are 4 days a week?

If my spouse has a job and I can get health insurance benefits through that, is doing locums a good option?

I know, too many questions but that's where I'm.

A lot of the primary care jobs I've seen for new grads give a set salary every year with production bonuses for 1-2 years, then switch to more of a production based model (you eat what you kill, so to speak). The salary may depend on your status as a new grad, but will more significantly be influenced by location and type of job. Compensation is usually not mentioned before the interview. Salary information is also challenging to come by, because we have a culture where no one wants to discuss money.

Doing a contractor position (i.e. locums) will give you some tax advantages, but it's not necessarily better or worse than a permanent job (W2).

 

[deleted950463]

I was told in procedural field such as IR or surgery pay for new grads can be lower and experienced docs get paid more

 

[letmeinwillya]

Can someone leave their job with a certain amount of advance notice if one needs to move or leave the job all together? I know some states are considered at-will employment meaning employer can let you go or you can leave with agreed upon notice. What's the industry norm?

I've heard about having an employment/contract lawyer review the contract before signing it..I can see the merit in it.

Are there sample real life job contracts out there online to review learn more about them?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Can someone leave their job with a certain amount of advance notice if one needs to move or leave the job all together? I know some states are considered at-will employment meaning employer can let you go or you can leave with agreed upon notice. What's the industry norm?

I've heard about having an employment/contract lawyer review the contract before signing it..I can see the merit in it.

Are there sample real life job contracts out there online to review learn more about them?

The contract will have a stipulation in there as to how you can terminat it. The standard is 90 days, sometimes as long as six months after giving notice.

If you leave early you run the risk of being sued for breach of contract.

 

[letmeinwillya]

Thanks VA Hopeful Dr! So looks like 30 days or anything shorter is rare? Is this something that can be successfully negotiated and is done from time to time or simply unheard of? What I'm trying to understand is if you will be laughed out of a room if you said 30 day as it would be simply ridiculous or unrealistic.

 

[hello1234!]

I'm pretty sure if you tried to negotiate at the interview being able to leave with only 30 days notice, you wouldn't get the job.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I'm pretty sure if you tried to negotiate at the interview being able to leave with only 30 days notice, you wouldn't get the job.

Plus that usually means they can fire you without cause and give you only 30 days notice which is dangerous.

 

[Docofalltradez]

"I apply to a job because I like the location and salary, is it pretty much done deal that if I do well on the interview, I would be selected."

Hi letmeinwillya,

Finding the right job the first time cannot be stressed enough. There is a tendency for residents to get the first job they find in the location they choose and don't put enough effort to make sure the job is a good fit. I get it, after working hard for several years all we want is a break. Unfortunately, the stakes of having a successful career have gone down considerably over the past 30 years. Many residents work for two years at a "starter job," learn the ropes and then transition to a job which better serves their needs. Then after finding that new job, they work for 10-15 years they burn out and quit medicine altogether since they didn't full design the career and expectations. As a result, years of time and money are wasted and end up feeling even more tired than during your residency.

Do me a favor and take some time to design your life. What kind of work hours would you want? If you are willing to kill it now to pay off student loans and built up a nest egg, how long could you last? How many years of medicine do you plan on practicing? What is my fair market value given my credentials? Does the organization I plan on working for have values that match my own? What are my values, family, Health, money, career advancement?

Employers and people like people who remind them of themselves. Working in a culture or organization that doesn't fit who you are will make both parties miserable. Money is important but not as much as having a sense of belonging. You will be working 60+ hours there a week and will need the support of your peers to handle all the stress. Don't add to it by working a place that doesn't have built-in support systems.

Finally, even though you have just started and have limited experience, leverage the relationships you have with you current attendings and make sure one of them mentors you and helps you find a new mentor in your new job. Your current network will help assure your next employer that you have what it takes to be a valuable member in their community. Don't be afraid to ask your mentors or close attending to reach out to them on your behalf.

Good Luck,

DOAT

 

[Docofalltradez]

One more thing on 90 days. 90 days protects both you and your employer. If you were to get dismissed without cause as opposed to with cause, then your employer will have to give you the remainder of your money as if you were working. So you get let go and continue recieving a paycheck or lump sum which gives you 90 days of income to find another job! Likewise, finding a replacement doc in 90 day or less places tremendous pressure on the organization, other physicians and incurs massive costs to recruit, orient, credential and bring them up to speed. Some estimate state that it costs organizations upward of 100k+ to find a new physician.

DOAT

 

[Keona]

I’m family medicine. I started interviewing for jobs at the end of pgy-2. (May and June) Had multiple offers. Accepted one in August of pgy-3. Lawyer and contracts took until December to sort themselves out. Signed contract in December. Passed my board exams in April of pgy-3. Started My Job August 1st of this year. Some of my friends are just now starting to practice since they started looking later. If you care a lot about the location you live in you should be applying now. If you’re going into primary care everyone wants you right now and you likely aren’t going to have any difficulty finding a job. The practice I’m working with found out about me from an attending who helped coordinate things. She thought I would work well with the group. They are an independent physician owned practice which I also wanted. She knew I wanted a rural practice and knew of a group looking for new MDs/DOs. My friends joined iccs, hospital systems or are taking time off before starting to practice.

I spent time in the community prior to moving here, researched schools, Facebook stalked everyone in the practice, read online reviews about practice, figured out what competition is in the town.

Now from the other side hiring new physicians they are looking for people who are likely to stay in the community, who seem sane through an interview and who have good recommendations from colleagues. The last few MDs who have started rotated there on an away rotation which helped familiarize myself with the computer system.

Prior to graduating I worked part time in an ICC and they pretty much just wanted people with a pulse who were in good standing with the medical board.

You can feel free to PM me if I can be of any help. I do sometimes go weeks or months between logging onto here.

 

[Gfliptastic]

Having landed a job I didn't think I would get (affiliated and credentialed at the most renowned hospital in the Boston area), I can say that general internist jobs are plentiful. It's all about what you are willing to make, how many hours (or wRVU's), call schedule. Because in truth, I applied to the position, telling my batch mates, "No harm in applying! It would be 'funny' if I got the job" seeing as I'm a Ross grad from an average residency. And, even when I got my 1st contract from them, I negotiated my sign-on bonus LOL

As long as they invite you to interview on site (which is AFTER a phone interview) it's good! The reason for the site interview is to meet your coworkers, staff, and address the work feel. Some places will withhold salary discussion until after that interview, but a good number will tell you during the phone interview. It's no longer medical school or residency. If you get interviewed, go on site...unless you are a complete jerk where no other doctors want to work with you - you will get the job. It's refreshing! Any place w/ a position wants you, it's up to you to choose. There is a shortage of primary care physicians, so it's a big wild world out there for you. I applied for 15 positions, got interviewed at each one, got offered each one. It's good to be wanted LOL

Yes there usually salaries commensurate with experience out there, but the places I interviewed at did not necessarily have "seniority" OUTSIDE the position/organization. A new hire is a new hire w/ a starting salary. Then a transition to wRVU's, then seniority occurs after >3 years w/ the organization! Granted yes, the doc with 10 years experience is more attractive than a new grad, but in most scenarios, you and her will potentially start at similar salaries and need to work the same amount of time in the organization to gain equal seniority.

It's a good time to start the job search. You are only mildly behind. I started looking July of PGY3, and knew my job (and signed the contract) before Christmas. BUT that was my timetable, so I could celebrate the holidays w/o that "monkey on my back".

I am available via PM if you need it.

 

[gutonc]

Yes there usually salaries commensurate with experience out there, but the places I interviewed at did not necessarily have "seniority" OUTSIDE the position/organization. A new hire is a new hire w/ a starting salary. Then a transition to wRVU's, then seniority occurs after >3 years w/ the organization! Granted yes, the doc with 10 years experience is more attractive than a new grad, but in most scenarios, you and her will potentially start at similar salaries and need to work the same amount of time in the organization to gain equal seniority.

How do they ever hire anyone but new/recent grads then? What person with 5-10 years of experience (and another 20+ to go in their career) would want to take a job where the fresh grad is making the same amount as they are?

 

[letmeinwillya]

Thank you Docofalltradez! I agree with all of what you said. I like the part about looking for mentors at my current residency program but in my case, I am moving out of state from I'm finishing residency and moving to a state where we (I, spouse and kids) used to live before residency started. I'm set on the state for at least two years or so due to spouse's job and then we can move anywhere in the country. That brings up the topic of where to move to. I've thought of TX, CA, FL down the road ..warmer weather climates but don't know which ones would be better for primary care jobs..I know it's too subjective in some sense..I keep hearing people talk about NC but that's still cold weather..
In my case, looking for part-time options as well but not sure how much of pay cut are we talking about?

In terms of nest egg, I saw a job posting for Correctional Facilities in CA promising the 5 year vesting period to earn a pension on page 9 at PracticeLink Magazine - FALL 2018

I'm rambling..too late..will be back tomorrow!

"I apply to a job because I like the location and salary, is it pretty much done deal that if I do well on the interview, I would be selected."

Hi letmeinwillya,

Finding the right job the first time cannot be stressed enough. There is a tendency for residents to get the first job they find in the location they choose and don't put enough effort to make sure the job is a good fit. I get it, after working hard for several years all we want is a break. Unfortunately, the stakes of having a successful career have gone down considerably over the past 30 years. Many residents work for two years at a "starter job," learn the ropes and then transition to a job which better serves their needs. Then after finding that new job, they work for 10-15 years they burn out and quit medicine altogether since they didn't full design the career and expectations. As a result, years of time and money are wasted and end up feeling even more tired than during your residency.

Do me a favor and take some time to design your life. What kind of work hours would you want? If you are willing to kill it now to pay off student loans and built up a nest egg, how long could you last? How many years of medicine do you plan on practicing? What is my fair market value given my credentials? Does the organization I plan on working for have values that match my own? What are my values, family, Health, money, career advancement?

Employers and people like people who remind them of themselves. Working in a culture or organization that doesn't fit who you are will make both parties miserable. Money is important but not as much as having a sense of belonging. You will be working 60+ hours there a week and will need the support of your peers to handle all the stress. Don't add to it by working a place that doesn't have built-in support systems.

Finally, even though you have just started and have limited experience, leverage the relationships you have with you current attendings and make sure one of them mentors you and helps you find a new mentor in your new job. Your current network will help assure your next employer that you have what it takes to be a valuable member in their community. Don't be afraid to ask your mentors or close attending to reach out to them on your behalf.

Good Luck,

DOAT

 

[letmeinwillya]

Thanks Keona for sharing your thoughts, much appreciated. It's very helpful to get input from someone who's gone through a similar path recently. I'm not even close on my boards and I'm PGY-3. What were your interviews like, is it pretty much the standard fare (tell me about yourself type things or anything worth mentioning you remember?

How much negotiation was involved in the money or overall compensation matters? Any pointers or thoughts would be welcome!

Not sure if you were moving across state lines, moving or spending time in the location prior to joining presents its own set of logistical challenges.

I’m family medicine. I started interviewing for jobs at the end of pgy-2. (May and June) Had multiple offers. Accepted one in August of pgy-3. Lawyer and contracts took until December to sort themselves out. Signed contract in December. Passed my board exams in April of pgy-3. Started My Job August 1st of this year. Some of my friends are just now starting to practice since they started looking later. If you care a lot about the location you live in you should be applying now. If you’re going into primary care everyone wants you right now and you likely aren’t going to have any difficulty finding a job. The practice I’m working with found out about me from an attending who helped coordinate things. She thought I would work well with the group. They are an independent physician owned practice which I also wanted. She knew I wanted a rural practice and knew of a group looking for new MDs/DOs. My friends joined iccs, hospital systems or are taking time off before starting to practice.

I spent time in the community prior to moving here, researched schools, Facebook stalked everyone in the practice, read online reviews about practice, figured out what competition is in the town.

Now from the other side hiring new physicians they are looking for people who are likely to stay in the community, who seem sane through an interview and who have good recommendations from colleagues. The last few MDs who have started rotated there on an away rotation which helped familiarize myself with the computer system.

Prior to graduating I worked part time in an ICC and they pretty much just wanted people with a pulse who were in good standing with the medical board.

You can feel free to PM me if I can be of any help. I do sometimes go weeks or months between logging onto here.

 

[letmeinwillya]

Thank you so much for your reply, much appreciated!! I've sent you PM. Small world!! I've lived in the suburbs of Boston and I'm going back to Boston after residency from NY. I'm an IMG/FMG so they wouldn't even know about my med. school ... did most of the jobs you applied to didn't require post-training experience?

Great advice! Thank you for sharing. If you don't mind me asking what are we talking about in terms of the interviews? I assume it's simply non-medical type questions that you get asked for mostly any other job? I guess what I'm trying to get at is what's the different in the interview for a physician and an IT manager if none of them are asking domain-specific questions.. I'm think pre-match programs residency where they would give you actual case and ask you to tell them how would you manage it? vs all decent programs that ask the common questions ..tell me about yourself? Why did you apply to our program etc?

How do you negotiate sign on bonus? Do they tell you the budget for the job if you ask them?

I'm really sleepy now..

later!

Having landed a job I didn't think I would get (affiliated and credentialed at the most renowned hospital in the Boston area), I can say that general internist jobs are plentiful. It's all about what you are willing to make, how many hours (or wRVU's), call schedule. Because in truth, I applied to the position, telling my batch mates, "No harm in applying! It would be 'funny' if I got the job" seeing as I'm a Ross grad from an average residency. And, even when I got my 1st contract from them, I negotiated my sign-on bonus LOL

As long as they invite you to interview on site (which is AFTER a phone interview) it's good! The reason for the site interview is to meet your coworkers, staff, and address the work feel. Some places will withhold salary discussion until after that interview, but a good number will tell you during the phone interview. It's no longer medical school or residency. If you get interviewed, go on site...unless you are a complete jerk where no other doctors want to work with you - you will get the job. It's refreshing! Any place w/ a position wants you, it's up to you to choose. There is a shortage of primary care physicians, so it's a big wild world out there for you. I applied for 15 positions, got interviewed at each one, got offered each one. It's good to be wanted LOL

Yes there usually salaries commensurate with experience out there, but the places I interviewed at did not necessarily have "seniority" OUTSIDE the position/organization. A new hire is a new hire w/ a starting salary. Then a transition to wRVU's, then seniority occurs after >3 years w/ the organization! Granted yes, the doc with 10 years experience is more attractive than a new grad, but in most scenarios, you and her will potentially start at similar salaries and need to work the same amount of time in the organization to gain equal seniority.

It's a good time to start the job search. You are only mildly behind. I started looking July of PGY3, and knew my job (and signed the contract) before Christmas. BUT that was my timetable, so I could celebrate the holidays w/o that "monkey on my back".

I am available via PM if you need it.

 

[Keona]

Thanks Keona for sharing your thoughts, much appreciated. It's very helpful to get input from someone who's gone through a similar path recently. I'm not even close on my boards and I'm PGY-3. What were your interviews like, is it pretty much the standard fare (tell me about yourself type things or anything worth mentioning you remember?

Yes very standard interviews with the exception that they are all trying to convince you to join them while asking you questions to see if you’re a good fit. I brought up controlled substances/opiate policy management and that was really the only medical management discussion during any interviews.

How much negotiation was involved in the money or overall compensation matters? Any pointers or thoughts would be welcome!
One place I told what number I was looking for and got it. I told them what another site was offering in terms of loan repayment and sign on bonus. This was also my preferred days per week location. (I work 4 days in clinic and one day I see a few nursing home patients). I take home phone only call divided equally between other physicians in the practice.

Another place had a crazy income sharing model they use that I wasn’t willing to do and they weren’t willing to change the income guarantee so I didn’t go there.

Not sure if you were moving across state lines, moving or spending time in the location prior to joining presents its own set of logistical challenges.

 

[Keona]

Also I wasn’t moving across state lines. I’m in KY which is the state I was raised.

 

[letmeinwillya]

I appreciate everyone's replies, it's really helpful to someone like me who is new to the process and to top it off is an IMG/FMG but I take heart in the advice from fellow docs.

What are some general online or offline resources to search for jobs? PracticeLink comes up in Google searches. Annals of Internal Medicine paper magazine?

Is it standard practice to provide professional references in CV/resume or during or post-interview? Is it usually PD or some attending you may have worked during your residency?

If a full-time job hours are from 9-5 pm, that typically means that last patient would be at 4 pm or so. If it takes longer to complete notes or follow-up calls, how's that time compensated? Is it considered part of the regular job hours and is expected of the physician. I hear from other non-med. fields that such hours if occur regular are considered over time and are compensated accordingly.

 

[Gfliptastic]

How do they ever hire anyone but new/recent grads then? What person with 5-10 years of experience (and another 20+ to go in their career) would want to take a job where the fresh grad is making the same amount as they are?

I'm not on the business side, but I can only say that many places use a seniority compensation model which incorporates time spent w/ the group/corporation. There can be a tiered salary at some places, ESPECIALLY government/federal jobs, where it IS tiered based on overall experience. Yet based on so many states non-compete clauses, the good bonuses are for panel size. And although it is possible that an experienced doc can bring patients with her, if I build a commensurate sized panel in 3 years compared to her panel, compensation is equal and should be equal. And at many places, these incentives are sizable. Vesting is also similar. But these are things I would think an experienced doc would ponder when deciding to change jobs 5 years in at another position.

I negotiated pretty well for myself to the point the shot-callers told me they "would not be comfortable with a new grad getting any more". So an experience doc might start negotiations at a higher "floor" than me and thence have a higher "ceiling" too. That said, something also might happen when switching to wRVU's. I mean, it almost makes sense for an experienced doc to be able to milk the most out of every visit versus me. So in "eating what you kill" there's that factor to experienced doc versus newbie. And basically every place I interviewed at will transition from salary to wRVU once one attains a level higher than salary.

 

[mvenus929]

If a full-time job hours are from 9-5 pm, that typically means that last patient would be at 4 pm or so. If it takes longer to complete notes or follow-up calls, how's that time compensated?

It's not usually. Most places will have some built in 'office/admin' time, where you can follow-up on results, call families, etc, but the actual amount of time you get for that will vary a lot based on the job. This is why most general pediatrician jobs are only like 4 days per week--the 5th day is admin time. You don't get additional compensation if it takes you longer to do your work than the allotted admin time. Thus, it is in your best interest to become efficient at notes and follow-up.

 

[letmeinwillya]

Thank you for the reply. I like the idea of having a fixed day for admin but I guess that doesn't seem to be the norm at most Primary care places. It would be best to get as efficient as possible in completing the notes (faster typing speed, have some pre-written generic language that one could copy paste etc).

By the same token, what if someone is working on an hourly basis, they would be paid for the time they spend dealing with direct patient care as well as admin time regardless of how long it take, within reason of course, right?

It's not usually. Most places will have some built in 'office/admin' time, where you can follow-up on results, call families, etc, but the actual amount of time you get for that will vary a lot based on the job. This is why most general pediatrician jobs are only like 4 days per week--the 5th day is admin time. You don't get additional compensation if it takes you longer to do your work than the allotted admin time. Thus, it is in your best interest to become efficient at notes and follow-up.

 

[mvenus929]

Thank you for the reply. I like the idea of having a fixed day for admin but I guess that doesn't seem to be the norm at most Primary care places. It would be best to get as efficient as possible in completing the notes (faster typing speed, have some pre-written generic language that one could copy paste etc).

By the same token, what if someone is working on an hourly basis, they would be paid for the time they spend dealing with direct patient care as well as admin time regardless of how long it take, within reason of course, right?

Hugely variable. I worked in what essentially was an urgent care on an hourly basis. But if I spent two hours after my shift catching up on notes, I wouldn’t get paid extra for that because the expectation was that notes would be completed within 15 minutes of the end of your shift.

 

[Docofalltradez]

I’m family medicine. I started interviewing for jobs at the end of pgy-2. (May and June) Had multiple offers. Accepted one in August of pgy-3. Lawyer and contracts took until December to sort themselves out. Signed contract in December. Passed my board exams in April of pgy-3. Started My Job August 1st of this year. Some of my friends are just now starting to practice since they started looking later. If you care a lot about the location you live in you should be applying now. If you’re going into primary care everyone wants you right now and you likely aren’t going to have any difficulty finding a job. The practice I’m working with found out about me from an attending who helped coordinate things. She thought I would work well with the group. They are an independent physician owned practice which I also wanted. She knew I wanted a rural practice and knew of a group looking for new MDs/DOs. My friends joined iccs, hospital systems or are taking time off before starting to practice.

I spent time in the community prior to moving here, researched schools, Facebook stalked everyone in the practice, read online reviews about practice, figured out what competition is in the town.

Now from the other side hiring new physicians they are looking for people who are likely to stay in the community, who seem sane through an interview and who have good recommendations from colleagues. The last few MDs who have started rotated there on an away rotation which helped familiarize myself with the computer system.

Prior to graduating I worked part time in an ICC and they pretty much just wanted people with a pulse who were in good standing with the medical board.

You can feel free to PM me if I can be of any help. I do sometimes go weeks or months between logging onto here.

I think you have drastically increased your odds of having a great stable career. You started early, did the research in the community and practice, learned about what you want as a person and had a mentor give you a helping hand. Excellent job!
DOAT

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[letmeinwillya]

Is there an imposter syndrome you feel on your first job as one may not be as confident as a new grad vs someone who has some experience under their belt? Ok so I can act confident but how do you deal with the actual medical aspects.. In residency, you are still considered student in training in some sense and you have the benefit of an attending or supervising physician to fall back on.

How does this work in real life? First day at job and I get 10 patients..if I'm not sure about something do I get to ask others in the practice? Forgive my ignorance but would like to know how you does the progression work from new grad to feeling comfortable enough as not to fret it?

 

[mvenus929]

Is there an imposter syndrome you feel on your first job as one may not be as confident as a new grad vs someone who has some experience under their belt? Ok so I can act confident but how do you deal with the actual medical aspects.. In residency, you are still considered student in training in some sense and you have the benefit of an attending or supervising physician to fall back on.

How does this work in real life? First day at job and I get 10 patients..if I'm not sure about something do I get to ask others in the practice? Forgive my ignorance but would like to know how you does the progression work from new grad to feeling comfortable enough as not to fret it?

Even well seasoned attendings will still ask for help, they just tend to do it behind closed doors and not in front of trainees. But yes, it is common to ask for assistance in your first few months of practice. It’s terrifying going from a trainee to an attending, so many will ask questions they couldve easily answered during training.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

You only learn 50% of what you need to really know during your residency. You learn the next 25% in the first 6 months of your 1st job. The last 25% takes the rest of your career.

 

[Perrotfish]

Is there an imposter syndrome you feel on your first job as one may not be as confident as a new grad vs someone who has some experience under their belt? Ok so I can act confident but how do you deal with the actual medical aspects.. In residency, you are still considered student in training in some sense and you have the benefit of an attending or supervising physician to fall back on.

How does this work in real life? First day at job and I get 10 patients..if I'm not sure about something do I get to ask others in the practice? Forgive my ignorance but would like to know how you does the progression work from new grad to feeling comfortable enough as not to fret it?

I didn't even act confident. For the first week I did a pretty good impression of a new Intern. 'Let me run this by you' on multiple patients per day. Its not really imposter syndrome either. That implies you know what you're doing and think you don't. This was more of a genuinely steep learning curve. Thankfully there were a few new grads coming in at the same time as me, so we spent a lot of time reassuring each other, as well as talking to the more experienced people there.

I was mostly better by the 6 month mark.

 

[letmeinwillya]

Even well seasoned attendings will still ask for help, they just tend to do it behind closed doors and not in front of trainees. But yes, it is common to ask for assistance in your first few months of practice. It’s terrifying going from a trainee to an attending, so many will ask questions they couldve easily answered during training.

Got it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. So if there're senior attendings at the practice, one could consult them or run something by them initially and not look stupid?

 

[letmeinwillya]

You only learn 50% of what you need to really know during your residency. You learn the next 25% in the first 6 months of your 1st job. The last 25% takes the rest of your career.

Thank you for sharing your insights! I can certainly say the 50% part is looking more and more true now that I'm close to completing the residency. I guess I was trying to guage the expectation of the employer from a new grad. Of course I would do my best to come up to speed on using the EMR system, their processes and how things generally work around there but I guess it's just ok to to feel little trepidation and keep marching on..

 

[letmeinwillya]

I didn't even act confident. For the first week I did a pretty good impression of a new Intern. 'Let me run this by you' on multiple patients per day. Its not really imposter syndrome either. That implies you know what you're doing and think you don't. This was more of a genuinely steep learning curve. Thankfully there were a few new grads coming in at the same time as me, so we spent a lot of time reassuring each other, as well as talking to the more experienced people there.

I was mostly better by the 6 month mark.

Thanks for your reply, yeah it's a good setup if you got few new grads working at the same place so one could get a peer group of folks who are in similar boat. I'm ready for the steep learning curve. There's always first time for everything so we'll see.

 

[letmeinwillya]

The sense I'm getting is that if I'm not sure how long I will stick around at a job, it may be better to go the locum route? But then I'm not sure if that's a good setting to be in as the first job. My reasoning is and I could be misinformed, the locum jobs wouldn't have any interest in tolerating the initial learning curve whereas the full time/permanent job may have proper orientation time allocated and patience to see the new employee learn the ropes. Am I understanding this correctly?

So how do the references work? Should I talk to PD or attendings at the current residency program in advance that I may give their name as reference. Do people still use cover letters or that old school?

Some jobs mention 4 days work week so looks like it's employer dependent and most likely to be the case at places that are not so mainstream. Could be relatively remote areas or something.

Searching through the forum, came across few online resources: PracticeLink, DocCafe, MedWorking

Any others worth registering with? I'm using a new email address as I'm expecting to be bombarded with emails from recruiters.

 

[Ladholyman]

When I applied to The Permanente Medical Group in Northern California they make the process very clear cut. 3 letters of recommendation, one of them from the program director. The recruiter lets you know where there are openings. Kaiser is huge in California and you rank different service areas by your preference. The interview process differs with each service area. Some are only half a day and some are full day affairs.

I recently got a verbal offer from two positions and now I have to make a decision. It's quite different from medical school and residency where you are literally groveling for a spot. Feels very different when employers actually want you.

 

[letmeinwillya]

Thank you for your reply! I've heard great things about the Permenente group in CA. I don't know about the CA licensing ..I know one needs PTAL to apply to CA residency programs..thought that was a hassle. CA would be a great destination if cost of living could be mitigated. I would still consider it if there're parts of CA that are affordable ..keep hearing about the great weather and being in Northeast, wouldn't mind moving away from snow

Good luck with your decision! Yes, good to be in demand for a change I would think that salaries would change by location to some extent meaning CA vs Albama or may be not ..as remote places that no one wants to go offer more to attract candidates vs. in-demand places play their "cool place to be" card and pay what they can get away with.

When I applied to The Permanente Medical Group in Northern California they make the process very clear cut. 3 letters of recommendation, one of them from the program director. The recruiter lets you know where there are openings. Kaiser is huge in California and you rank different service areas by your preference. The interview process differs with each service area. Some are only half a day and some are full day affairs.

I recently got a verbal offer from two positions and now I have to make a decision. It's quite different from medical school and residency where you are literally groveling for a spot. Feels very different when employers actually want you.

 

[letmeinwillya]

So how does one evaluate the employer? Is there a list of best places to work? Best hospitals? Indeed.com or some other online resource?

Is there a general hierarchy of places in terms of most desirable to least...hospital vs private practice..medical groups..etc

Is there any consensus at all for places to relocate to that offer most bang for the buck..good weather..excellent schools, reasonable cost of living and opportunities for future growth for families ..career wise as well as social.

Are there certain areas of the country better than others? Keep hearing mid-west offers good value? NYC doesn't.

 

[mvenus929]

So how does one evaluate the employer? Is there a list of best places to work? Best hospitals? Indeed.com or some other online resource?

Is there a general hierarchy of places in terms of most desirable to least...hospital vs private practice..medical groups..etc

Is there any consensus at all for places to relocate to that offer most bang for the buck..good weather..excellent schools, reasonable cost of living and opportunities for future growth for families ..career wise as well as social.

Are there certain areas of the country better than others? Keep hearing mid-west offers good value? NYC doesn't.

Choosing employment is such a personal decision that is based on a ton of different factors. What's a perfect opportunity for one person may be hell on earth for another. Research vs clinical time vs teaching (or not). Pay scales (and who is paying you, if you're looking at non-profit for PSLF). Word of mouth gets you the employers to avoid for malignant environments, but it's going to be division/department dependent. Some people want the security of being in an employed position, others want the ability to make more in a partnership track.

And this is why networking is important.

As far as location, the midwest is generally going to be higher relative pay and lower cost of living, so more bang for your buck. But lots of people don't want to live in the midwest because of weather, proximity to beach/mountains/family, etc, which is why they pay more to lure people in.

 

[letmeinwillya]

Are there specific employers or groups in the TX area that deal with Nocturnist/Hospitalist type job openings? Looking for 0.5 FTE, weekend Nocturnist shifts type of schedule..Any pointers will be helpful.

I've come across Sound Physicians and Apogee Physicians so far..thoughts about them or any others you may recommend? Can they expedite the licensing process in TX?

Thanks!