Applying Late - Solid MCAT, weak EC's. Worth it?

[deleted689233]

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[Xenith]

Don't apply this cycle. Save the money and spend the next year getting some good ECs and improving your GPA. Apply next year (within the first week.)

 

[wagonwheel23]

Do not apply. It's too late.

 

[Goro]

Do NOT apply now.

Fix your red flags, even if it means skipping an interview cycle.

Hey everyone, I'm incredibly stressed out right now and could use a few kind words of wisdom and advice.

- 511 MCAT (85%)
- 3.6 GPA (slight downward trend)
- 50 hrs Shadowing
- Some Clinical volunteer experience but not a ton
- Tons of work experience (serving tables)
- Cool artistic EC's
- Some other average EC's

Ohio Resident.

Here's my story - 3.85 GPA through two years, then starting working 30 hours/week due to financial strain - grades sunk my junior year to 3.6.

I've always known I have red flags (downward trend, minimal volunteering, one D+), so I stuttered around sending my apps. While I should've just sent them out in July, my indecisiveness means it is now October and they haven't been sent. I messed up big time, I know.

Give it to me straight - is it too late to apply? My old list was comprised of all Ohio schools, plus Loyola, Rush, Rosalind Franklin, Drexel, Temple, and a couple others.

Now, I'm thinking if I do apply at all, I need to trim it down to just about only my Ohio MD schools, and add some DO's, because I feel like I have sunk myself and I have no chance at some of the MD schools previously on my list. If you could recommend me any schools you think I should apply to, I'm all ears.

Be honest here - no feelings will be hurt. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

 

[deleted689233]

Again, thanks

 

[Xenith]

Even to DO schools?

I could cry right now. Gonna give the parents a call tonight.

Although I do believe that applying right away next year would give me time to get into a solid school.

I completely understand how devastated you must feel, but look at the big picture:

1) our life expectancies are at least 70+ so one wasted year won't make much of a difference.

2) you can save a few thousand bucks, which may allow you to work a bit less and devote more time to the next application cycle.

3) you won't have to "make do" with schools you would not have otherwise chosen. Don't approach DO schools as backups... They should not be treated as backups. If you want to do a DO then apply to a DO.

4) even if you got an interview, your limited ECs make for limited stories. Spend the next year growing, gaining some profundity, and making sure you want to be a doctor and why.

5) your app will be solid and your chances of acceptance increase manifold by applying in June vs October.

 

[GreenDuck12]

I think you should go with your gut instinct from July that told you applying at that time would be a bad decision. Think of the next 9 months as a gift to clear up as many of those red flags as possible. Start volunteering to get a more substantive number. Shadow some more physicians to be able to speak about what physicians do in a much more articulate manner. Develop really strong personal statements and letters of rec. You have 9 months to get your app in as strong a position as possible. There is no reason to apply before this.

 

[Fidgety]

I was in a similar situation where I had the choice to either apply or improve my application. Although I did apply early, at this point I kind of wish I would have waited a year. Perspective changes a lot once you're out a few thousand dollars and it may be for nothing. As awful as it sounds, I really think you will be glad you waited.

Alternately, you could apply to just a few schools you may think you have a chance at, Ohio public schools, etc.. But keep in mind that this may cause you to be considered a reapplicant for the next cycle.. If you don't get in. I'm not really sure how schools view reapplicants though, I hope not poorly since I will probably be one next year.

Anyways, I hope that is helpful advice, patience truly is a virtue. Good luck!

 

[deleted689233]

Every reply is greatly appreciated.

 

[piii]

I was going to apply to several DO schools either way, and not as back-ups. I am still going to apply DO, like tonight. The reason I asked for DO suggestions is because from what I understand, the cycle does run a little bit later.

I've always deeply wanted this. I've been passionate, I got the grades, did some microbiology research, beat the MCAT, and fumbled on the one yard line. And here I am now. It's disheartening.

Explaining it to my parents is the hardest part. And my friends. I feel like such a disappointment. Ahh, that's life I suppose. We'll persevere.

Then to think about what to do during my gap year... Sigh.

Every reply is greatly appreciated. I cannot thank you enough.

If you're worried about your reputation and success in the eyes of your family and friends, you're far better off waiting and applying fresh than applying now and failing.

 

[Catalystik]

Then to think about what to do during my gap year... Sigh.

Your shadowing is fine, especially if it includes a primary care doc. Were any of the docs a DO who could write you the DO LOR that many DO schools ask for? Do you have leadership and research covered?

How many hours of active clinical experience do you have? How much more could you have by June?

Are you still in school so that there's a chance your GPA will rise again? Is the D+ recent? Did you retake the class?

 

[excited_alumni]

I would say wait. While it is possible to still get an interview (I submitted my JHU app late late october and got an II) it is definitely much harder. I went through last cycle with only one II and I understand it is disheartening having to wait another year, but it will be worth it in the end!

 

[excited_alumni]

I was in a similar situation where I had the choice to either apply or improve my application. Although I did apply early, at this point I kind of wish I would have waited a year. Perspective changes a lot once you're out a few thousand dollars and it may be for nothing. As awful as it sounds, I really think you will be glad you waited.

Alternately, you could apply to just a few schools you may think you have a chance at, Ohio public schools, etc.. But keep in mind that this may cause you to be considered a reapplicant for the next cycle.. If you don't get in. I'm not really sure how schools view reapplicants though, I hope not poorly since I will probably be one next year.

Anyways, I hope that is helpful advice, patience truly is a virtue. Good luck!

In my experience, being a reapplicant has not been a disadvantage at all. I got experience with interviewing at the one school I got an II at, and it made me realize I needed to write my secondaries more thoroughly and earlier and this year I have gotten enough II to where I am almost sure I will be accepted (and no school I have interviewed at has asked about me reapplying).

 

[deleted689233]

Your shadowing is fine, especially if it includes a primary care doc. Were any of the docs a DO who could write you the DO LOR that many DO schools ask for? Do you have leadership and research covered?

How many hours of active clinical experience do you have? How much more could you have by June?

Are you still in school so that there's a chance your GPA will rise again? Is the D+ recent? Did you retake the class?

One primary care doc, two orthopedic surgeons. I have one semester as a research assistant.

Leadership is iffy - I tutored, run a blog, and started a mentoring program in my premed fraternity.

Total clinical experience - 100 hours. I volunteered at women's pregnancy center for about 100 hours as well.

 

[Silence in ER]

Hey everyone, I'm incredibly stressed out right now and could use a few kind words of wisdom and advice.

- 511 MCAT (85%)
- 3.6 GPA (slight downward trend)
- 50 hrs Shadowing
- Some Clinical volunteer experience but not a ton
- Tons of work experience (serving tables)
- Cool artistic EC's
- Some other average EC's

Ohio Resident.

Here's my story - 3.85 GPA through two years, then starting working 30 hours/week due to financial strain - grades sunk my junior year to 3.6.

I've always known I have red flags (downward trend, minimal volunteering, one D+), so I stuttered around sending my apps. While I should've just sent them out in July, my indecisiveness means it is now October and they haven't been sent. I messed up big time, I know.

Give it to me straight - is it too late to apply? My old list was comprised of all Ohio schools, plus Loyola, Rush, Rosalind Franklin, Drexel, Temple, and a couple others.

Now, I'm thinking if I do apply at all, I need to trim it down to just about only my Ohio MD schools, and add some DO's, because I feel like I have sunk myself and I have no chance at some of the MD schools previously on my list. If you could recommend me any schools you think I should apply to, I'm all ears.

Be honest here - no feelings will be hurt. Any and all advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

From another applicant to you, take it form me, you do not want to apply at this time.
I applied late August, early September with a July MCAT ( got results in August), and I am sitting here in October with nothing. 0. no interviews, and one rejection.

One of of my top picks has already given away 75% of it's interviews spots this late in the season. I stress every day and I know that my chances are steadily decreasing.

And guess what, I'm a urm.

If a urm like me, with a higher mcat than you (515- though I had a few retakes), and a upwards trend, from a top school is having this much trouble when I applied earlier than you, I don't think you want to risk it.


You want to tilt the odds in your favour,

Wait until next year, get more e.c's. enjoy your life, say no to your parents ( mine wanted me to apply in junior year with a 29 mcat, an awful science gpa and a sub-3.5 cum gpa, with little research and I told them hell, no).

And apply when you have the best chance of getting a II.

You can do it, good luck!

 

[Catalystik]

1) One primary care doc, two orthopedic surgeons (one is an esteemed graduate of a DO school I'm applying to). I have one semester as a research assistant.

2) Leadership is iffy - I tutored, run a blog, and started a mentoring program in my premed fraternity.

3) Total clinical experience - 100 hours. I volunteered at women's pregnancy center for about 100 hours as well.

4) I can bring the GPA up slightly - got the D+ summer of 2014, retaking the class this spring.

1) Sounds good.

2) Starting a mentoring program is leadership-y. If you managed other blogger's contributions, that is, too, but if you were the sole contributor, then not. Tutoring is usually listed under Teaching.

3) 100 hours isn't terrible. What did you do at the Pregnancy Center for the additional 100 hours?

4) After the additional information provided, waiting until that D+ is redeemed seems to be the most important reason to wait to apply until next June. What was the class?

 

[y123]

It is way too late to apply to MD schools.

 

[deleted689233]

Silence, that's a healthy dose of perspective that I need. URM & 515? Damn.

1) Sounds good.

2) Starting a mentoring program is leadership-y. If you managed other blogger's contributions, that is, too, but if you were the sole contributor, then not. Tutoring is usually listed under Teaching.

3) 100 hours isn't terrible. What did you do at the Pregnancy Center for the additional 100 hours?

4) After the additional information provided, waiting until that D+ is redeemed seems to be the most important reason to wait to apply until next June. What was the class?

 

[wegotthis14]

Most medical students take a gap year these days, myself included. Don't feel like a failure for waiting a year. It will help you get into the school you really want to attend. It's also a really nice break from what's going to be many more years of schooling.

Also, don't let your parents coerce you to apply. They don't know the current state of med school admissions. Hell, even older doctors don't know. My friend's mom, who's a doctor, told me I should only apply to 4 schools. If you don't get in this year, you will be a disadvantage as a reapplicant.

 

[Catalystik]

1) At the pregnancy center, I answered calls and gave council and friendly voice to talk to for support.

2) I agree about the class - it's my biggest red flag. It was Ochem II lab. Not to be that guy, but it was total bs. I got an A in the first lab. But that's neither here nor there.

3) I've talked to my mom and she's demanding I apply to a few Ohio state schools and the DO's. It's hard explaining these things to her.

1) Even though you weren't in the presence of the patients, you did interact with them in a helpful manner. Many will consider this active clinical experience, too, giving you a decent 200 hour total.

2) Worse, it was a D+ in a prerequisite. It DEFINITELY needs to be redeemed. Applying with a downward trend in the sGPA, at MD or DO schools, can be lethal.

3) My sympathies.

 

[Anomandaris]

1) Even though you weren't in the presence of the patients, you did interact with them in a helpful manner. Many will consider this active clinical experience, too, giving you a decent 200 hour total.

2) Worse, it was a D+ in a prerequisite. It DEFINITELY needs to be redeemed. Applying with a downward trend in the sGPA, at MD or DO schools, can be lethal.

3) My sympathies.

My apologies for slightly taking this off topic, but I had to ask: is it still potentially lethal if you end up with a decent GPA? Say, 3.6-3.8 range? I understand that it's not a good thing to have and that there are other applicants who don't have this trend, but if the cGPA and the sGPA are both well within the acceptable range of MD schools, is a downward trend still that bad?

 

[New_Slang]

Silence, that's a healthy dose of perspective that I need. URM & 515? Damn.



At the pregnancy center, I answered calls and gave council and friendly voice to talk to for support.

I agree about the class - it's my biggest red flag. It was Ochem II lab. Not to be that guy, but it was total bs. I got an A in the first lab. But that's neither here nor there.

I've talked to my mom and she's demanding I apply to a few Ohio state schools and the DO's. It's hard explaining these things to her.

OMG I can't stress how much I think this to myself while reading SDN: YOU ARE AN ADULT. Make your decisions and deal with your mom as you think appropriate. The advice here is good, but only you can make that choice.

 

[Catalystik]

is it still potentially lethal if you end up with a decent GPA? Say, 3.6-3.8 range? I understand that it's not a good thing to have and that there are other applicants who don't have this trend, but if the cGPA and the sGPA are both well within the acceptable range of MD schools, is a downward trend still that bad?

I would define "decent" as above the mean for those accepted, which I think sits somewhere like cGPA 3.69 currently and 3.63 BCPM GPA(for MD schools). Anything above that may not trigger a deeper inspection. Both GPAs are displayed on the application for both MD and DO schools on a year-by-year basis, not term by term. So it's possible that a huge number of As in the same academic year would drown out the negative eyebrow raising effect of that D+. We should also recall that this D+ was earned in the summer of 2014, so for most it would have been included with the grades of the junior year. If the OP took classes in summer of 2015, those grades would be displayed alone on their own line and are probably already showing an upward trend since no other poor grades have been mentioned. (But the number of credits listed on that line would be minimal.) If no classes were taken in summer 2015, then the downward trend still stands for junior year.

 

[Silence in ER]

Silence, that's a healthy dose of perspective that I need. URM & 515? Damn.



At the pregnancy center, I answered calls and gave council and friendly voice to talk to for support.

I agree about the class - it's my biggest red flag. It was Ochem II lab. Not to be that guy, but it was total bs. I got an A in the first lab. But that's neither here nor there.

I've talked to my mom and she's demanding I apply to a few Ohio state schools and the DO's. It's hard explaining these things to her.

Hell, I don't think URM counts as much as it once did.

To be honest, why should it? When there are other black applicants with higher gps/mcats/more compelling life stories.

I'm from an immigrant family and my dad absolutely begged me to apply with my old 29 mcat.

He had some crazy idea that because I went to a top 4 undergrad that I could get into any school in the nation. Yeah, he's a doctor but he had no idea how any of this med school stuff worked. Even as late as last year November he was hoping I would still apply. Now, my dad is very old school and strict but if I could stand up to him and say, "Nope,dad, odds aren't in my favour, I'm not applying with an mcat that low b/c it is not a good idea,"
then there's no reason you can't tell your mom to similarly bug off.

Eventually after I held my ground he accepted it because what else was he going to do?

 

[GreenDuck12]

If you're applying this late in the cycle you really need to have an application that doesn't give an adcom a reason to deny you an admission. Remember, schools receive thousands of applications and will interview a small percentage of those. This late in the game, the applicants that were prepared have already submitted their applications three months ahead of you. Instead of competing against who had applied by august, you're competing against the whole field. You need to respect your competition. Your D+ and descending gpa are both decent reasons for an adcome to pass over your application. (As a side note, if you want to apply to a DO school and genuinely are interested in going to ANY DO school, by all means submit your app. If you want to go to the best school possible, DO or MD, take the advice that has already been posted and improve your app this year.)

Additionally, at the end of the day, you are an adult. It is your life. Your money. Your dream. If YOU want to apply this late in the cycle, stop discussing your situation with a forum and go get your application in. If YOU believe you can make your application stronger by focusing on your areas of weakness, then start taking steps to improve it. Ultimately, if your decisions are being made by anyone but you (forum, family or otherwise), you really need to evaluate where you are at in life and whether this is something you really want to do.

Silence, that's a healthy dose of perspective that I need. URM & 515? Damn.



At the pregnancy center, I answered calls and gave council and friendly voice to talk to for support.

I agree about the class - it's my biggest red flag. It was Ochem II lab. Not to be that guy, but it was total bs. I got an A in the first lab. But that's neither here nor there.

I've talked to my mom and she's demanding I apply to a few Ohio state schools and the DO's. It's hard explaining these things to her.

 

[deleted689233]

Thank you all for you responses.

 

[longleat11]

I would try to see your gap year as an opportunity to do something great and make you a better, more interesting person. I elected to take a gap year this year, and I've done and seen some incredible things. I'm currently doing an AmeriCorps program focused on STDs, especially HIV, and I've learned so so much about disparities in care, what makes a good doctor, and so on. The work is not always glamorous, but I truly am thankful that I chose to take this year to earn some experience outside of the classroom because I learn something new about healthcare in America every day. No bull here; it's been one of the best things I've ever done. Maybe try to find an AmeriCorps program (or any other service program -- JVC, Episcopal Volunteer Corps, etc.) that hasn't begun yet.

Plus it looks great on a med school app (it shows you're serious about helping others), and it gives you plenty to talk about on interview days. But it's a lot more than that too. Best of luck!