Applying this Cycle... Research Problem, Please Comment.

[MSTPbound]

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I am applying MSTP this admissions cycle. Given my stats (avg-to-slightly below avg scores for MSTP, good upward trend, grad degree, outstanding ECs), it has been made clear to me that the rigor of my research experience is what will make or break any admissions offers.

My problem is that I'm trying to put together my Significant Research Essay, but what I had hoped would be my most significant research experience has just fallen apart; I've spent the past 5 months working full-time in a protein NMR lab, and because of a falling out with a post-doc from h@!!, I have little more to show for it than a cell and molec protocol skill set, and two intended projects that fell apart. In the first project, looking at a protein modification in an organelle, I spent a couple of months isolating the organelles from my cell line, but this falling out occurred before the protein assay was done... hence... I effectively have no data, nor can I expect to receive any credit. There goes the "science" of that effort.

The second project, I only started designing about two weeks before I learned that I would be leaving my current lab - and got no further than presenting a related a paper to my department. Out the window.

OK... so now I'm planning to move into a neurobiology lab - expecting happier times ahead. Unfortunately, I had wanted to submit my application this weekend to be as early in the submission process as possible, and here is what my research experience looks like:

One year of clinical research - effects of strength training on functional mobility in Parkinson's disease. Expecting one, or possibly two pubs from this work, and also expecting a great LOR.

One semester of organic synthesis - made very little progress (carrying 17 post-bac credits plus two part time jobs that semester) - basically completed about 4 steps in a 6-8 step synthesis. For this, all I have is some theoretical understanding of what I was doing, and one NMR spectrum that proves that I did indeed make the salt expected at step 4. I'm also expecting a strong LOR for this.

From this last experience (I guess 5 months is about one-semester in length), I have done a lot of "work" in the lab (transformations, organelle isolation, centrifugation, plasmid preps, etc.), but no actual data... so my experience essentially gets reduced to that of a tech. My PI seems to feel he can still write me a strong LOR.

Sorry for the long-winded intro; so what should I do? Is this enough to get a strong Sig. Res. essay together? Should I wait to get a couple of months into this Neuro lab, and hope to have a good essay together to submit in August, or should I just do the best I can with what I've done, write the essay and submit this weekend?

Thanks for your input!

-Mbound

 

[solitude]

I've heard mixed reviews on whether the significant research essay should take about one experience in particular, in depth, or discuss your research in all of your different labs. If you had some nice data with the 5month project, I would say to just stick with that, because it sounds like you could write a really great essay, and will have a great letter from your PI to boot. But, given that you have no data, my opinion is that your best bet would be to address each (or at least more than one) of your experiences in the essay.

I wouldn't be so worried that you don't have a mountain of data--adcoms know that science is slow, and that until you get settled into a PhD it's really tough to crank out data. I think if you get a great letter from that PI, talk about each type of your research in the essay, and can demonstrate in interviews that you understood why you were doing the experiments, what you hypothesized, etc., you'll be just fine.

I am applying MSTP this admissions cycle. Given my stats (avg-to-slightly below avg scores for MSTP, good upward trend, grad degree, outstanding ECs), it has been made clear to me that the rigor of my research experience is what will make or break any admissions offers.

My problem is that I'm trying to put together my Significant Research Essay, but what I had hoped would be my most significant research experience has just fallen apart; I've spent the past 5 months working full-time in a protein NMR lab, and because of a falling out with a post-doc from h@!!, I have little more to show for it than a cell and molec protocol skill set, and two intended projects that fell apart. In the first project, looking at a protein modification in an organelle, I spent a couple of months isolating the organelles from my cell line, but this falling out occurred before the protein assay was done... hence... I effectively have no data, nor can I expect to receive any credit. There goes the "science" of that effort.

The second project, I only started designing about two weeks before I learned that I would be leaving my current lab - and got no further than presenting a related a paper to my department. Out the window.

OK... so now I'm planning to move into a neurobiology lab - expecting happier times ahead. Unfortunately, I had wanted to submit my application this weekend to be as early in the submission process as possible, and here is what my research experience looks like:

One year of clinical research - effects of strength training on functional mobility in Parkinson's disease. Expecting one, or possibly two pubs from this work, and also expecting a great LOR.

One semester of organic synthesis - made very little progress (carrying 17 post-bac credits plus two part time jobs that semester) - basically completed about 4 steps in a 6-8 step synthesis. For this, all I have is some theoretical understanding of what I was doing, and one NMR spectrum that proves that I did indeed make the salt expected at step 4. I'm also expecting a strong LOR for this.

From this last experience (I guess 5 months is about one-semester in length), I have done a lot of "work" in the lab (transformations, organelle isolation, centrifugation, plasmid preps, etc.), but no actual data... so my experience essentially gets reduced to that of a tech. My PI seems to feel he can still write me a strong LOR.

Sorry for the long-winded intro; so what should I do? Is this enough to get a strong Sig. Res. essay together? Should I wait to get a couple of months into this Neuro lab, and hope to have a good essay together to submit in August, or should I just do the best I can with what I've done, write the essay and submit this weekend?

Thanks for your input!

-Mbound

 

[OncDoc19]

I don't think your research essay will suffer that much from this problem because as you said you were planning to submit in a week anyway so I don't think you would have had significant data anyway when submitting the primary. My concern would be more 1) not having said data to talk about in secondaries/interviews and 2) having to explain why you left a lab (got booted out) in the middle of two projects. Be sure you think very carefully about the answer to that question before interviews.

I wouldn't wait till august. Science is slow and you may have not accomplished much by then. Its a gamble.

About the structure of the essay, I think unless you had one lab that you worked in for the majority of college and then maybe one summer lab, I would talk about all research projects. I have a total of 7 projects, three are part of my honors thesis, one is a summer project, one is clinical and two are history of medicine. I think if the experience was significant (ie a summer or more) then it should be included unless you have special reasons for not doing so (ie a major publication in one lab and no results from the others) I think talking about all of these projects will help the ADCOMs to see the breadth and depth of my research experience and make me a more well rounded candidate.

 

[solitude]

I don't think your research essay will suffer that much from this problem because as you said you were planning to submit in a week anyway so I don't think you would have had significant data anyway when submitting the primary. My concern would be more 1) not having said data to talk about in secondaries/interviews and 2) having to explain why you left a lab (got booted out) in the middle of two projects. Be sure you think very carefully about the answer to that question before interviews.

I wouldn't wait till august. Science is slow and you may have not accomplished much by then. Its a gamble.

About the structure of the essay, I think unless you had one lab that you worked in for the majority of college and then maybe one summer lab, I would talk about all research projects. I have a total of 7 projects, three are part of my honors thesis, one is a summer project, one is clinical and two are history of medicine. I think if the experience was significant (ie a summer or more) then it should be included unless you have special reasons for not doing so (ie a major publication in one lab and no results from the others) I think talking about all of these projects will help the ADCOMs to see the breadth and depth of my research experience and make me a more well rounded candidate.

Yeah, I definitely agree that you (OncDoc) should definitely explain most/all of your research experiences in that essay, given your background. For me, I only have one summer in a lab and then a ton of time in another lab, so I'm just focusing on my main research experience and then using the 1325 characters of work/activities to briefly explain my experience in the other lab.

You also raised good points to MSTPBound about having to explain why he/she got kicked out and doesn't have any data since submission.

(and as a side note, how is our great state treating you? I'm not coming home until July.)

 

[MSTPbound]

I really appreciate your feedback... yeah, I wasn't exactly kicked out - I'm not really the kind of person who does things to put oneself in the position of getting "kicked out" of things. I basically got stuck with a mentor who wasn't really interested in being a mentor; my PI hoped we could find a way to get along but... consider what happens when you're the kind of person who loves to take responsibility for your actions, and you work with someone who loves to put the blame on others. 😱. I was actually brought to tears in my first month there, and had an uphill battle learning how to deal with this guy.

It was a toxic combination, to put it simply. Like my PI said, you can't force people who have no chemistry between them to spontaneously get along, or "have" chemistry, so while he invited me to stay in the lab to continue working the situation out if I wanted to, he suggested that I could also explore other labs where I might find a more supportive working relationship. I've had great mentors and advisors in the past, so I realized that I didn't have to keep putting with a terrible one if I had other options. Suffice it to say that while this wasn't ideal, it was probably the best course of action given the circumstances... and yes, I am completely prepared to explain myself to interviewers when it comes time to. My main concern right now is just getting to the interview... makes sense, right? 😉

 

[solitude]

I really appreciate your feedback... yeah, I wasn't exactly kicked out - I'm not really the kind of person who does things to put oneself in the position of getting "kicked out" of things. I basically got stuck with a mentor who wasn't really interested in being a mentor; my PI hoped we could find a way to get along but... consider what happens when you're the kind of person who loves to take responsibility for your actions, and you work with someone who loves to put the blame on others. 😱. I was actually brought to tears in my first month there, and had an uphill battle learning how to deal with this guy.

It was a toxic combination, to put it simply. Like my PI said, you can't force people who have no chemistry between them to spontaneously get along, or "have" chemistry, so while he invited me to stay in the lab to continue working the situation out if I wanted to, he suggested that I could also explore other labs where I might find a more supportive working relationship. I've had great mentors and advisors in the past, so I realized that I didn't have to keep putting with a terrible one if I had other options. Suffice it to say that while this wasn't ideal, it was probably the best course of action given the circumstances... and yes, I am completely prepared to explain myself to interviewers when it comes time to. My main concern right now is just getting to the interview... makes sense, right? 😉

Yeah that seems like a great explanation. I don't think you'll have a problem if you get asked about it. I hope the new lab works out better!

 

[OncDoc19]

(and as a side note, how is our great state treating you? I'm not coming home until July.)

Actually I'm in Germany at the moment relaxing and getting some great shadowing experience! I return at the end of the week though. Why come to home in July? Yikes, too hot for my taste! That's the bad part about going to Germany in May, I miss all the good weather 😡

On a side note, I would like your opinion on something. I have my AMCAS essays written and am in the editing process. I was planning to submit mid-june that way I can get some professor feedback on my essays. The thing is for the summer program I am in there is a PS writing workshop, but its not until the June 28. I wrote the lady giving the seminar to see if she would read my essay earlier so I can submit but she said she doesn't have time. So what should I do?

 

[solitude]

Actually I'm in Germany at the moment relaxing and getting some great shadowing experience! I return at the end of the week though. Why come to home in July? Yikes, too hot for my taste! That's the bad part about going to Germany in May, I miss all the good weather 😡

On a side note, I would like your opinion on something. I have my AMCAS essays written and am in the editing process. I was planning to submit mid-june that way I can get some professor feedback on my essays. The thing is for the summer program I am in there is a PS writing workshop, but its not until the June 28. I wrote the lady giving the seminar to see if she would read my essay earlier so I can submit but she said she doesn't have time. So what should I do?

That's awesome that you're in Germany--I decided to do my 2.5 months research at the start of summer so that I would be able to focus on AMCAS, and then I can recharge for a month at home before classes start. I actually don't mind the July/August weather in Iowa, because it's pretty mild compared to summers in NC!

As for your PS, my opinion is that you should just go ahead and submit AMCAS in early-mid June. I'm assuming you've had/will have other people read your PS? Based on how on-the-ball you are, I have the inclination that your PS will be just fine, and that you probably don't need the PS workshop anyways.

I'd be happy to swap PSs if you need another reader.

 

[jeniffer lopez]

I was actually brought to tears in my first month there, and had an uphill battle learning how to deal with this guy.

I don't want to sound mean or anything, but you really need to get a tougher skin, hopefully before you start your PhD. Tears in lab is not professional behavior, REGARDLESS of what an idiot the other person might be. I don't know if you are a guy or a girl, but if you are a girl I think tears are MUCH worse. You will just reinforce the stereotype that women are weak and emotional. However, tears in front of an attending/resident/patient are, for me, career suicide. Staying in that lab might have helped you get stronger, even if it sounds ridiculous at first.

 

[solitude]

I don't want to sound mean or anything, but you really need to get a tougher skin, hopefully before you start your PhD. Tears in lab is not professional behavior, REGARDLESS of what an idiot the other person might be. I don't know if you are a guy or a girl, but if you are a girl I think tears are MUCH worse. You will just reinforce the stereotype that women are weak and emotional. However, tears in front of an attending/resident/patient are, for me, career suicide. Staying in that lab might have helped you get stronger, even if it sounds ridiculous at first.

How do you know that MSTPBound is a girl? I didn't see anything indicative on first glance when reading his/her posts, and it seems that you are reinforcing negative stereotypes of women by automatically assuming that anybody who cries in lab is a female. Anecdotally, I have seen a number of members of my lab and others break down in tears after a confrontation with a PI or other lab member, after terrible data, after a grant was rejected, etc. One was a postdoc male.

I guess my point is that I don't think we should be criticizing MSTPBound for it.

 

[jeniffer lopez]

How do you know that MSTPBound is a girl? I didn't see anything indicative on first glance when reading his/her posts, and it seems that you are reinforcing negative stereotypes of women by automatically assuming that anybody who cries in lab is a female. Anecdotally, I have seen a number of members of my lab and others break down in tears after a confrontation with a PI or other lab member, after terrible data, after a grant was rejected, etc. One was a postdoc male.

I guess my point is that I don't think we should be criticizing MSTPBound for it.

Solitude, chill. I specifically mentioned that i DON'T KNOW if Mstpbound is a guy or a girl. You should read my post again. What I did say was that IF MSTPbound is a girl, she should not cry in front of others in a professional setting. It harms the rest of us (I am a girl). I have heard from a couple of jerks I used to work with that they get a kick out of making women cry in lab. And you should not learn from those people that break down in tears, they are definitely not sending the right message. Life sucks for everybody, but being a crybaby does not solve anything. And believe me, I am a rather emotional person, but the lab is not the place to spill your tears. I am trying to help him/her out, not ridicule him/her. He/she will find plenty of opportunities during MSTP training to cry because the road is long, hierarchical, and frustrating. All I am saying is that one should keep it cool, learn from the experience, and keep going.

 

[flaquita69us]

Life sucks for everybody, but being a crybaby does not solve anything. And believe me, I am a rather emotional person, but the lab is not the place to spill your tears.

I have to disagree. There's no reason to hide the fact that you're upset, but to expect any sort of compensation or apology is out of the question. Crying can be an excellent way to relieve the stress that comes from working in a high pressure lab. Granted, maybe crying in front of the PI is not the best idea, it doesn't make someone look weak, just human. There's no reason we need to be robots in order to do science, and there's no shame in being upset because you just spent three months on something that didn't work and then got called an idiot for it. In fact, crying is probably a much better solution than blowing up at someone else, as some people seem to like to do. The important thing is to be able to move on afterwards and take the good out of the criticism.

 

[solitude]

Solitude, chill. I specifically mentioned that i DON'T KNOW if Mstpbound is a guy or a girl. You should read my post again. What I did say was that IF MSTPbound is a girl, she should not cry in front of others in a professional setting. It harms the rest of us (I am a girl). I have heard from a couple of jerks I used to work with that they get a kick out of making women cry in lab. And you should not learn from those people that break down in tears, they are definitely not sending the right message. Life sucks for everybody, but being a crybaby does not solve anything. And believe me, I am a rather emotional person, but the lab is not the place to spill your tears. I am trying to help him/her out, not ridicule him/her. He/she will find plenty of opportunities during MSTP training to cry because the road is long, hierarchical, and frustrating. All I am saying is that one should keep it cool, learn from the experience, and keep going.

Sorry, I didn't read the part of your post where you mentioned that you didn't know if MSTPBound is a guy or girl.

I appreciate that you are trying to help him/her out, but I, like flaquita, simply disagree that crying is never appropriate.

 

[QofQuimica]

Two points:

1) It is best for EVERYONE not to cry in front of the PI if you can avoid it, regardless of your gender. But geez, if that's the worst thing you ever do in your entire life, you're coming out well ahead of most people. I also think that there's no need to jump on MSTPbound about HIS statement when we have no idea what really happened. For all we know, he might not literally mean that he broke down into tears; maybe it was just a figure of speech. Haven't you ever said that you were just going to *kill* someone when you were mad at them? Now tell me, how many people have you actually killed?

2) If y'all want to discuss the gender and social mores of crying in labs, let's start a new thread for it and not hijack this one any more. MSTPbound asked for advice on how to present his research experience on his app. MSTPbound, I agree with the other posters that it sounds like you have several small projects rather than one large one, so you should probably say a little bit about each one. I also agree that you should apply earlier rather than later. When you fill out secondaries and go on your interviews, you can bring up the neuro research then.

Best of luck to you. 🙂

 

[MSTPbound]

Thanks again for the feedback everyone... this is very helpful.

Jenniffer Lopez... why didn't you ask me which hill I was climbing up to fight that battle?

J/K

Seriously though... I appreciate your perspective JL. It's tough being a woman in science... just like it's tough for me being the only black guy in a lab. Nevertheless, I'm not one to cry unnecessarily - and if I were to cry, there would probably be a really good reason for it... and didn't you know that it takes a really big man to cry, even when he needs to?

Take care all,

-Mbound

 

[jeniffer lopez]

Sorry if I offended anybody. I am kind of blunt sometimes. I guess in this issue we will have to agree to disagree. MSTPbound, I would recommend you pretty much what QofQ said. Talk about what you have now. I also had several small projects and a larger one, and I dedicated one paragraph to each and the last couple of paragraphs to the larger one I was currently doing. By the time interviews came I had more results and talk about that, and nobody noticed that I did not write about that in my research essay. People pretty much focus on what you tell them during interview, so in October/November you can talk about your neuro experience with confidence, even if it is not in your essay. I only had one exception to this rule, and it was one particular interviewer that focused on my research experience from my sophomore year for almost two hours. So know what you put down, but feel free to edit during interviews.

 

[ClarinetGeek]

Apply now, and you will get plenty of opportunities to expand upon your research experiences at every step of the application. Just about every secondary will allow you to add more information about your research. And every interview you will have plenty of time to talk about what you are doing currently as well as what you did in the past.

Good luck.