Applying to 2 residencies is a "ploy" and bad???

[dedicate]

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So I just started to read Residency Manual Selection, but I am not a med student yet. I came across this paragraph closing the introduction about a transitional year:

An additional negative consequence of the transitional year may be induced by trying to resolve the residency problem by seeking to apply to two specialties simultaneously. This has its own inherent risk, namely that your ploy will be uncovered. You may then find that no attractive program in either field seeks your services as a resident and it may therefore prove difficult to secure adequate training.

My question is, why is it considered such a bad thing to apply to 2 residencies? Obviously we want people to really want to go for their passion but the fact that the author made this seem like you would be blackballed is surprising. Why is it such a bad thing?

 

[phospho]

My question is, why is it considered such a bad thing to apply to 2 residencies?

I think it's like applying to medical school and dental school at the same time. You come off as not knowing what the hell it is that you want to do with your life. But then again, like you, I'm just a premed, so I could be wrong.

 

[Lukkie]

i have a couple friends that applied to different ones. neurosurg+internal med, and rad+interal med. both got internal med.

 

[Divine Furor]

So I just started to read Residency Manual Selection, but I am not a med student yet. I came across this paragraph closing the introduction about a transitional year:

My question is, why is it considered such a bad thing to apply to 2 residencies? Obviously we want people to really want to go for their passion but the fact that the author made this seem like you would be blackballed is surprising. Why is it such a bad thing?

Residencies aren't just training programs, they are paid positions with contracts, benefits (ha🙂, and an absolute expectation of commitment to the program and governing hospital. You work for them. They receive funding based on you working for them. If you are applying to different specialities (not residencies, specialties is the problem . . . we all submit multisite selections into Freida) then it would appear as though you lied in your interview (because you must have told at least two different stories to two different program coordinators about your grand passion and top choices); and it implies you're not committed to your contract. It's decision time by the end of medical school--time to be a doctor, not a dilettante.

 

[tkim]

Residencies aren't just training programs, they are paid positions with contracts, benefits (ha🙂, and an absolute expectation of commitment to the program and governing hospital. You work for them. They receive funding based on you working for them. If you are applying to different specialities (not residencies, specialties is the problem . . . we all submit multisite selections into Freida) then it would appear as though you lied in your interview (because you must have told at least two different stories to two different program coordinators about your grand passion and top choices); and it implies you're not committed to your contract. It's decision time by the end of medical school--time to be a doctor, not a dilettante.

Applying to two different specialties says nothing about committment to a contract. The contract is offered after the match. There are people who apply and interview for their dream specialty but also interview for a backup residency or prelim/transitional just in case they do not match in that specialty.

The problem with applying to two different specialties is that each specialty may not think that you are serious about *their* specialty. The advice offered about that is that if you do apply and interview for different specialties, minimize your risk by not apply to both at the same hospitals. Makes sense.

That said, it's a lot of time and money to interview at a comfortable number of places just for one specialty. For two, even harder. I think few people actually do this.

 

[TexasPhysician]

Actually many students that apply to competitive fields will apply to a 2nd field as a back-up. Students applying ortho surgery will also often apply to general surgery as a back-up. Students applying Dermatology sometimes apply to IM programs as a back-up.

I'm not sure I would accept interviews of both Derm and IM at the same program for fear I would be found out by one and discarded, but otherwise it isn't easy for schools to find out. No one wants to be left without a program and have to scramble for a spot in a specialty one has no interest in.

When it comes to applying for residency, assess your competitiveness objectively. If you are an average student applying Dermatology, you might also want to apply to your 2nd favorite field.

Tons of people apply 2 fields. I've seen some apply as many as 4 fields because they want to stay within a certain geographical location, and they have matched successfully.

I wouldn't worry about applying to 2 fields at all.

 

[circulus vitios]

Actually many students that apply to competitive fields will apply to a 2nd field as a back-up. Students applying ortho surgery will also often apply to general surgery as a back-up. Students applying Dermatology sometimes apply to IM programs as a back-up.

I'm not sure I would accept interviews of both Derm and IM at the same program for fear I would be found out by one and discarded, but otherwise it isn't easy for schools to find out. No one wants to be left without a program and have to scramble for a spot in a specialty one has no interest in.

When it comes to applying for residency, assess your competitiveness objectively. If you are an average student applying Dermatology, you might also want to apply to your 2nd favorite field.

Tons of people apply 2 fields. I've seen some apply as many as 4 fields because they want to stay within a certain geographical location, and they have matched successfully.

I wouldn't worry about applying to 2 fields at all.

Why would someone who wants derm (or ortho) apply to IM (or gen surg) as a backup? Why not a transitional or preliminary medicine year? IM is such a huge compromise that I can't really understand it. $300k/year+ / 40-50 hours a week / no call in derm to $200k/year / 60+ hours a week / tons of call in IM?

 

[TexasPhysician]

Why would who wants derm apply to IM as a backup? Why not a transitional or preliminary medicine year? IM is such a huge compromise that I can't really understand it. $300k/year+ / 40-50 hours a week / no call in derm to $200k/year / 60+ hours a week / tons of call in IM? Same with ortho.

It was an example, however, I'm not sure a transitional/prelim year would help much. You would be a PGY1 applying for a PGY2 spot that has been pre-filled already, so you would have to basically call every Derm program in the country looking for students that have dropped out of DERM. Maybe a few do drop out, but I can't see many leaving such a cush field.

I guess you could always apply Derm with Anesthesia as a back-up if lifestyle is important.

 

[dedicate]

So would this be accurate: There are no rules or regulations against it. Rather, it is highly advised against because in a competitive program you want to limit "strikes" against you.

 

[TexasPhysician]

So would this be accurate: There are no rules or regulations against it. Rather, it is highly advised against because in a competitive program you want to limit "strikes" against you.

It is highly advised that you don't get CAUGHT. It doesn't look good to the IM residents if they see you 2 weeks later with the Derm residents on a 2nd interview.

The likelihood of getting caught is slim. Just don't be stupid about it.

I'd say that the competitive fields like Derm don't care how many fields you apply too. They probably expect many of their applicants to apply to a couple fields because only something like 60-70% (estimate) get in.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

Be confident in what you do.

 

[witness23]

applying to a surg specialty and gen surg would be more common right?

 

[TexasPhysician]

applying to a surg specialty and gen surg would be more common right?

Yes, tons of people do this.

 

[Law2Doc]

Why would someone who wants derm (or ortho) apply to IM (or gen surg) as a backup? Why not a transitional or preliminary medicine year? IM is such a huge compromise that I can't really understand it. $300k/year+ / 40-50 hours a week / no call in derm to $200k/year / 60+ hours a week / tons of call in IM?

I think you aren't looking at it right. The game you are playing is really derm or nothing. You can end up with nothing. If you do derm vs categorical IM, at least you can come away with IM. To go into a ROAD specialty such as derm, you must first do a prelim or transitional year. So you will be interviewing for those regardless. So you will already be applying to prelim and transitional year programs, even if you didn't look into a back-up field. However if you don't get derm, having a 1 year prelim stint that leads to nothing often doesn't put you in a particularly competitive position when applying to derm the following year as compared to the folks coming out of med school with the top scores. Many feel you would actually be better off not doing a prelim year and simply spending an extra year doing research, instead of trying to apply to derm as an intern. You can't exactly go on 50 interviews during your prelim year, and you won't have the school contacts to work, etc. So your odds of getting something like derm are often best while you are still a med student.

 

[Law2Doc]

So would this be accurate: There are no rules or regulations against it. Rather, it is highly advised against because in a competitive program you want to limit "strikes" against you.

I'm not sure I'd phrase it "strikes against you". It matters to programs that you actually want to go into that field. Nobody wants to be sloppy seconds. And programs keep track of how highly their interviewees rank them. So an IM program won't want someone who really wants derm, and vice versa. And since you are going to tell both sets of programs that they are your goal, it's up to the program's imagination as to who you are "playing". So that's really the downside -- because somebody is going to feel like you are using them as your backup. That being said, you generally want a backup plan if you are shooting for something ultra competitive because you might not get it. So you have to decide, ahead of time -- do you want to end up with "something", or do you want to do a research year if you don't get it, or do you do the internship year and hope you are somehow better regarded in the next match.