Applying to Caribbeans

[haribo]

Hey
Is anyone applying to Caribbean medical school?
This is my fourth yr of undergrad and I am desparate to go on with my life. So i am considering Caribbeans. They are not big hit in canada, but I guess i got no choice. Do you go to carb. or anyone that you know of?
I have already got a rejection letter form University of Ottawa. The Canadian schools are very competitive. The cut off GPA was 3.87, so just imagine the rest.
If I'll be lucky enough, i might get an interview with Northern Ontraio School of Medicine. But this is a new school and it's very cold there + it's not developed. But it's still in Canada.
So would I choose a new school here in canada, undeveloped and far away from everything or do i go to a3rd world country for a year or two? Should I choose the hurricanes over heavy snow storm and 4 years of winter?
How well educated are Carb. med students?

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[McGillGrad]

You Ontarians crack me up.

Read through a few pages of threads here and on valuemd.com and come back with specific questions.

 

[haribo]

I just need an advice. I just want to know if I am making the right decision!

You Ontarians crack me up.

Read through a few pages of threads here and on valuemd.com and come back with specific questions.

 

[McGillGrad]

I just need an advice. I just want to know if I am making the right decision!

Choose Canada over anything else. Then US schools, then bartending school and then finally Caribbean school.

Caribbean schools will allow you to become a doctor but at a steep price. Avoid it unless it is your absolute last chance.

 

[flighterdoc]

You Ontarians crack me up.

Read through a few pages of threads here and on valuemd.com and come back with specific questions.

LOL

Roughly 45-50% of the last two classes at Saba are Canadians

 

[McGillGrad]

LOL

Roughly 45-50% of the last two classes at Saba are Canadians

I will be going to a Caribbean school, too but yo would have to be coocoo for coco puffs to choose the Caribbean over any Canadian school.

 

[haribo]

I will be going to a Caribbean school, too but yo would have to be coocoo for coco puffs to choose the Caribbean over any Canadian school.

well I really don't have a choice. I don't have a 3.7 gpa, and my Mcat score is very low. I got 8's on the physical and biological sciences and the verbal sucks.
So I could either do my masters for another two years and try to bring up my gpa and retake the MCAT, but that would mean 2 more years. Honestly I am tired of waitting, what's going to happen. If I want to get in any canadian or american schools that's what I got to do. I already got rejected by one of the schools.

i am very scared. Don't know what to do, that 's why now i am thinking of caribbeans.

 

[ezal36]

apply to the DO schools in the u.s . you will get in/

 

[McGillGrad]

apply to the DO schools in the u.s . you will get in/

This is good advice. This will give you access to pretty much anything a MD has access to in the US.

The Caribbean route will make it a little more difficult (and will limit you to the US with little hope of ever seeing Canada again) but you will have a MD instead of a DO behind your name.

It is up to you.

 

[haribo]

Well now it's a bit late to apply to DO schools. I've missed most of the deadlines and the ones that I can apply to aren't that great. eg Touro University College of Osteopathic!

This is good advice. This will give you access to pretty much anything a MD has access to in the US.

The Caribbean route will make it a little more difficult (and will limit you to the US with little hope of ever seeing Canada again) but you will have a MD instead of a DO behind your name.

It is up to you.

 

[McGillGrad]

Well now it's a bit late to apply to DO schools. I've missed most of the deadlines and the ones that I can apply to aren't that great. eg Touro University College of Osteopathic!

In terms of residency, you are better off at any DO school versus any Carib school just because of the fact that it is a US school.

 

[Mz.Doctor]

i'm applying to ross...92% pass rate on usmle...i think i rather be an m.d. than a d.o. now... i mean...i could surgery etc. and ross aint that bad the island sucks but u're in medical school all u do is study neways

 

[planningMD]

i'm applying to ross...92% pass rate on usmle...i think i rather be an m.d. than a d.o. now... i mean...i could surgery etc. and ross aint that bad the island sucks but u're in medical school all u do is study neways

that pass rate is much higher than even the average pass rate for the DO schools on THEIR test - the COMLEX. and their pass rates on the USMLE are very dismal. ross, and sgu have fantastic stats compared to the ave DO school. No DO school will land someone a MD neurosurgery residency either, but Ross and SGU have and will.

if you want to be a primary care doc, either will get you there, but more competitive fields, choose ross or sgu.

 

[planningMD]

I don't know how residency placements at ross and sgu specifically stack up against DO schools but, in general, I think the statistics suggest that DO students outperform US IMGs in the match.

Also, I would hardly choose carib over DO based on the prospect of landing a neurosurgery residency. In either case, the probabilities are vanishingly small. Better to make the decision based on factors that are more likely to affect you.

yes, out perform vs ALL us-imgs.

but no, not vs the top 3 carib schools. they outperform the DO schools.

 

[McGillGrad]

The fact remains that a Carib student from the top 4 with a 250 step 1 and a 240 step 2 will outperfom most any student with 210s in the steps. Of course there are exeptions but then again, some programs refuse to look at Carib students and some medoicre students have amazing connections.

 

[haribo]

I will be going to a Caribbean school, too but yo would have to be coocoo for coco puffs to choose the Caribbean over any Canadian school.

hey guys
what about israeli med schools? technion and sackler

 

[vtrain]

Choose Canada over anything else. Then US schools, then bartending school and then finally Caribbean school.

Caribbean schools will allow you to become a doctor but at a steep price. Avoid it unless it is your absolute last chance.

McGillgrad,

I notice you are pretty negative about carib schools, yet you yourself are going to one. What's up with that? I believe going the carb route is a very viable option, especially for canadians. You will get a US residency, and maybe a Canadian one too (SGU just matched an FP position last year), if you get an MD from the "big four."

 

[McGillGrad]

McGillgrad,

I notice you are pretty negative about carib schools, yet you yourself are going to one. What's up with that? I believe going the carb route is a very viable option, especially for canadians. You will get a US residency, and maybe a Canadian one too (SGU just matched an FP position last year), if you get an MD from the "big four."

I think that Carib schools are an excellent choice for people who have no other choice. I will sing their praises but if it comes down to Carib versus US/Canadian schools then there is no reason under the sun to go to the Carib over the US/Canada.

The advantages of Canadian/US schools are obvious in every single category except maybe climate...lol.

The Carib is a way to separate those who think they want to be a doctor and those who actually have the motivation, intelligence and thick skin to do anything to become a physician.

 

[McGillGrad]

hey guys
what about israeli med schools? technion and sackler

With Israeli schools you are still and IMG and you have to suffer through living in Israel.

The only advantage would be preference at some Jewish hospitals.

 

[haribo]

With Israeli schools you are still and IMG and you have to suffer through living in Israel.

The only advantage would be preference at some Jewish hospitals.

Mcgill grad:

suffer in israel?!

 

[McGillGrad]

Mcgill grad:

suffer in israel?!

No matter how you slice it you are in the armpit of the world. Israel's technology can only cover the stench of the Middle East like cologne sprayed over a turd. Plus you have to worry about fanatical religious zealots from both Muslim and Jewish sides blowing you up when you are trying to concentrate on acing your exams. There is a reason why people are leaving Israel and less are immigrating (save the Russians...lol).

You should not have to deal with that extra stress while studying.

 

[haribo]

No matter how you slice it you are in the armpit of the world. Israel's technology can only cover the stench of the Middle East like cologne sprayed over a turd. Plus you have to worry about fanatical religious zealots from both Muslim and Jewish sides blowing you up when you are trying to concentrate on acing your exams. There is a reason why people are leaving Israel and less are immigrating (save the Russians...lol).

You should not have to deal with that extra stress while studying.

Mcgill you are very wrong about israel. Yes it is true that there 's been suicide bombing going on for past a few years, but Israeli's have always continued their daily lives and I don't think I'd be worried about that. It's not like that every time anyone comes out their home or work they are blown up.
I am really sorry for you that your view is only based on all the lies from media.

 

[finallydone05]

I don't really want to offend anyone, here is just what i think. I have a friend who is going to SGU for med. school. Before this, Carrib. med. school was an option for me, now it is not. My friend is great person, but when it comes to school, he has lots of trouble. I know him really well, and he barely grad. from college with a 2.0gpa and a science gpa less than that. He took the MCAT and got 6, 7s in each section. He always had trouble with school and we used to study together and most time, no matter how anyone tries to explain the science, he just doesn't understand. Now he is getting his MD degree at SGU and he is failing at least half of his classes every term. But as long as he pays, the school lets him stay.

On top of that, he hates it there. He is such a kind hearted person but every time we talk, he complains about the mentality there. People are snobby, back stabbing eachother, cheating on tests....maybe all med. students are like that, and i am going to find out this fall, but everything i hear from him, and seeing him getting affected by it in a neg. way makes me think twice about the environment down there.

At this pt, personally, i would choose another path if i didn't get into a school in the US.

 

[sleepy31]

I am really sorry for you that your view is only based on all the lies from media.

Okay, wait. Let's put this in context here. First, they aren't "lies," they are just a very small portion of the actual story blown way the bleep out of proportion in order to gear Americans into thinking horrible things about any country that opposes Israel. The bombings actually happen, but the media also portrays high school shootings as if they are happening everyday at a time when high school violence is at an ALL TIME LOW. Go fig.

However, I have two teachers at my university who taught in the Caribbean, are from the middle east (not sure where exactly) and at least one of which who got his MD in Germany. Here is their take - though other schools may adopt the US standard and be comparable to them, the US schools have the most to offer in terms of technology, environment and opportunities. They don't knock the Caribbean schools, but they would say go to a US school as your first choice if you can. I can't say much about Israel, because I don't know the standards. I do know that many of the schools in that general vicinity of the world are more competitive to get into than Canadian schools. I would say that is a sign of a good place to get your education.

 

[flighterdoc]

With Israeli schools you are still and IMG and you have to suffer through living in Israel.

The only advantage would be preference at some Jewish hospitals.

LOL, right.

The schools in Israel are as good as the best in the US. Yes, you'll be an IMG, but so what? Grads from the Israeli schools can do anything in the US, including derm and neuro - and do.

 

[McGillGrad]

LOL, right.

The schools in Israel are as good as the best in the US. Yes, you'll be an IMG, but so what? Grads from the Israeli schools can do anything in the US, including derm and neuro - and do.

Would you be able to provide a cite for that information or is that you personal opinion? Similarily, Carib students have landed Derm, Ortho and Urology in the past. It does not mean that it is the norm.

 

[GAdoc]

Would you be able to provide a cite for that information or is that you personal opinion? Similarily, Carib students have landed Derm, Ortho and Urology in the past. It does not mean that it is the norm.

Yeah, I think thats true. FMGs do secure prestigous residencies..occasionally. And it seems that when they do people talk about it for years like "well I know this guy who knew this girl who's cousin went to some Carib school and had a classmate that matched Neurosurg. at Hopkins". The point is, this is not the norm. Now moderately competative residencies like EM, ob/gyn, gen surg., etc. are probably within the reach of a typical class from one of these schools. If you want hard facts, go to www.nrmp.org. Click on the "residency" tab and look at the "data sheets". You will see how carib grads faired for each specialty. You will see that in 2005 there were 28 Derm. spots and that 27 went to U.S. grads. Only 1 went to someone else (and they don't specify who).

Be careful with the Second Chance Mentality. I know some of you have such a passion for medicine that your willing to do anything. The carib schools know this too! They are DEFINATELY legitimate schools that will turn you into a doctor. But make no mistake, they count on people coming, paying outrageous sums, and then flunking. If you try your best in undergrad and come out with a 2.5 GPA, and 20 MCAT you may want to think twice about sinking 50,000$ into a program you may flunk out of. I don't say this to discourage anyone, but I want you all to be realistic.

 

[DPPM]

Would you be able to provide a cite for that information or is that you personal opinion? Similarily, Carib students have landed Derm, Ortho and Urology in the past. It does not mean that it is the norm.

I don't really know a whole lot about obtaining residencies in the US from other countries, but I do know that Israeli universities are among the most respected in the world, particularly with regard to science and technology, and have been huge contributers to medical research. Anybody who goes there will likely receive a top notch education.

 

[McGillGrad]

I don't really know a whole lot about obtaining residencies in the US from other countries, but I do know that Israeli universities are among the most respected in the world, particularly with regard to science and technology, and have been huge contributers to medical research. Anybody who goes there will likely receive a top notch education.

Respected by whom? That is your opinion unless backed-up by proof.

I could say that German medical schools are among the most respected in the world and you would not know if it is the truth without proof of who is doing the 'respecting'.

 

[neutropenic]

Would you be able to provide a cite for that information or is that you personal opinion? Similarily, Carib students have landed Derm, Ortho and Urology in the past. It does not mean that it is the norm.

I heard that a 'C' student landed the presidency.
But then again I am not sure my sources are accurate.

 

[DPPM]

Respected by whom? That is your opinion unless backed-up by proof.

I could say that German medical schools are among the most respected in the world and you would not know if it is the truth without proof of who is doing the 'respecting'.

Lol, I would agree that German schools are among the most respected also, but you're right, that too is just my opinion based on what I've heard. As I mentioned in my previous post, I don't know what the standards are for any FMG's or IMG's getting medical residency back in the states, I'm really just talking about science research and biotech in general. Anyhow, here's a pertinant link regarding an Israeli university.

"Weizmann Institute world best for science"
http://www.999today.com/education/news/story/2213.html


As far as a university or country being "well-respected", it's always just an opinion, and to be honest, I don't think it really matters where you're trained if you've got the right stuff. Carib, Israel, Ireland, DO, whatever....it's just like anything in life, it's what you make of it.

 

[McGillGrad]

I looked at the original rankings by "The Scientist" magazine and that research institute did rank well for non-US locations and even though it was not in the top 15 before 2005, I understand your point of view.

I agree wholeheartedly with your last sentiment. It is just that unless you graduate in the US (or are some sort of IMG research dynamo), IMGs will face the same type of hurdles. Those who have the right stuff will be welcomed with open arms and those who are lacking will have issues.

Lol, I would agree that German schools are among the most respected also, but you're right, that too is just my opinion based on what I've heard. As I mentioned in my previous post, I don't know what the standards are for any FMG's or IMG's getting medical residency back in the states, I'm really just talking about science research and biotech in general. Anyhow, here's a pertinant link regarding an Israeli university.

"Weizmann Institute world best for science"
http://www.999today.com/education/news/story/2213.html


As far as a university or country being "well-respected", it's always just an opinion, and to be honest, I don't think it really matters where you're trained if you've got the right stuff. Carib, Israel, Ireland, DO, whatever....it's just like anything in life, it's what you make of it.

 

[bulletproof]

I don't really want to offend anyone, here is just what i think. I have a friend who is going to SGU for med. school. Before this, Carrib. med. school was an option for me, now it is not. My friend is great person, but when it comes to school, he has lots of trouble. I know him really well, and he barely grad. from college with a 2.0gpa and a science gpa less than that. He took the MCAT and got 6, 7s in each section. He always had trouble with school and we used to study together and most time, no matter how anyone tries to explain the science, he just doesn't understand. Now he is getting his MD degree at SGU and he is failing at least half of his classes every term. But as long as he pays, the school lets him stay.

On top of that, he hates it there. He is such a kind hearted person but every time we talk, he complains about the mentality there. People are snobby, back stabbing eachother, cheating on tests....maybe all med. students are like that, and i am going to find out this fall, but everything i hear from him, and seeing him getting affected by it in a neg. way makes me think twice about the environment down there.

At this pt, personally, i would choose another path if i didn't get into a school in the US.

Am I relieved to see that you don't base all of lifes most important decisions on subjective, anecdotal evidence.

Now let me get this straight......on the one hand we have your friend who , as you yourself stated " has a hard time with science no matter how it is explained to him", and on the other hand we have the likes of Ross, SGU, and AUC who collectively have graduated ~10,000 DOCTORS, all of whom have undergone and passed rigorous standardized testing. Yup....you're right I too believe the school failed him. Sorry if I come off as an ass, but dude GET A GRIP.....unless he has a learning disability , substance abuse problem, IQ below 70, refractory laziness, and/or an inability to apply himself, medical school is not THAT hard. Take it from someone who is in it. Caribbean schools provide a pathway for those who want it badly enough AND are willing to work. Two questions:
1. Do you?
2. Are you?
Oh, and about the negative environment....its pervasive in medicine. An internal medicine floor right here in the US can be every bit as B**tchy and hostile. Trust me. On top of competitive med students, there are overworked residents, novice interns on ego trips, malignant nursing staff, hostile patients, and ancillary staff with AMAZING attitudes. Medicine not only eats its young....it devours it....limb by succulent limb...mmmmmmm. Two questions.

 

[sleepy31]

important decisions on subjective, anecdotal evidence.

Now let me get this straight......on the one hand we have your friend who , as you yourself stated " has a hard time with science no matter how it is explained to him", and on the other hand we have the likes of Ross, SGU, and AUC who collectively have graduated ~10,000 DOCTORS, all of whom have undergone and passed rigorous standardized testing. Yup....you're right I too believe the school failed him. Sorry if I come off as an ass, but dude GET A GRIP.....unless he has a learning disability , substance abuse problem, IQ below 70, refractory laziness, and/or an inability to apply himself, medical school is not THAT hard.

As someone who is, disabled and has a bachelor's in psych, molecular biology and public relations (yes, 3 degrees) I can tell you are quite uniformed. I know what it is like to constantly be the underdog and to work at least twice as hard as my average classmate to just barely make the cut. Being that I have played against the odds and won, then I can, from experience and education say this - If you believe that the only criteria for being able to learn sciences (ie do well in med school) are those mentioned, then you are an elitist (or at least very narrow minded). If you believe that every person's brain with at least average intelligence (above 100) works in the exact same way, then it is you that are basing decisions on subjective evidence. I know the type of person "finallydone" is talking about. I have tutored that type of person in both biochemistry and molecular biology and she wasn't of low intelligence or LAZY or any of the other crap that you mentioned. She was just not a scientist. She could not understand some of the concepts because her mind was made for a liberal studies field. She probably would have done amazingly well in sociology. It goes like this... most everyone can train their vocal cords, but not everyone can sign opera. In the field of sciences, our doctors are asked to take front stage. You get a grip.

Oh, and it goes back to cheating your way through - anyone can graduate from anywhere, I will give you that. But did they learn anything along the way or spend to much time cheating? I think that was the point that was trying to be made. The concern for how exactly someone without a scientific mind could get through. What are their aids - are they cheating? I have professors who rave about the Caribbean schools, so I doubt its the academics that are lacking. How then?

 

[tussin]

I don't know how residency placements at ross and sgu specifically stack up against DO schools but, in general, I think the statistics suggest that DO students outperform US IMGs in the match.

Also, I would hardly choose carib over DO based on the prospect of landing a neurosurgery residency. In either case, the probabilities are vanishingly small. Better to make the decision based on factors that are more likely to affect you.

Lots of good Ross and St. Georges students are getting competetive specialties. Many in OB, IM, etc. A lot of the applicants we see are from Ross and ST.Georges and they are being well recieved and have excellent scores.

Obviously, go for US or Canadian schools first if you can, but don't rule out Carib schools.

 

[bulletproof]

As someone who is, disabled and has a bachelor's in psych, molecular biology and public relations (yes, 3 degrees) I can tell you are quite uniformed. I know what it is like to constantly be the underdog and to work at least twice as hard as my average classmate to just barely make the cut. Being that I have played against the odds and won, then I can, from experience and education say this - If you believe that the only criteria for being able to learn sciences (ie do well in med school) are those mentioned, then you are an elitist (or at least very narrow minded). If you believe that every person's brain with at least average intelligence (above 100) works in the exact same way, then it is you that are basing decisions on subjective evidence. I know the type of person "finallydone" is talking about. I have tutored that type of person in both biochemistry and molecular biology and she wasn't of low intelligence or LAZY or any of the other crap that you mentioned. She was just not a scientist. She could not understand some of the concepts because her mind was made for a liberal studies field. She probably would have done amazingly well in sociology. It goes like this... most everyone can train their vocal cords, but not everyone can sign opera. In the field of sciences, our doctors are asked to take front stage. You get a grip.

Oh, and it goes back to cheating your way through - anyone can graduate from anywhere, I will give you that. But did they learn anything along the way or spend to much time cheating? I think that was the point that was trying to be made. The concern for how exactly someone without a scientific mind could get through. What are their aids - are they cheating? I have professors who rave about the Caribbean schools, so I doubt its the academics that are lacking. How then?

I don't understand why you are getting your internet panties in a bunch. The example you provided would be a classic presentation of someone unable to apply themselves to science ( if you reread my post I believe I allowed for that). In any event, the point borne out in my post was that if indeed this person is not scientifically minded or has some other issues preventing them from succeeding in medical school, then it is not the institutions fault ( please read finallydone05s post about having now ruled out carib. schools based on their friends experience of not doing well). It is not that I do not agree with you about some people being scientifically oriented versus humanities oriented. Neither do I condemn the person for not doing well ( Please tell me where I did that) In any event if you are going to medical school with a science GPA of less than 2.0, then you are clearly in denial or are oblivious to your limited scientific abilities ( and or you just didn't work, in which case you are lazy). In either event, YOU SHOULD NOT BE IN MEDICAL SCHOOL. You yourself asserted that Doctors are expected to be leaders in the scientific community. I would not even go as far as that. But a C average is at least a prerequisite in order to make it through the basic science years.
As for your comments on cheating you are sadly mistaken, and clueless I might add. You stated that anybody can graduate from anywhere ( based on cheating if necessary I presume). Well , at least at Ross, you need to pass USMLE steps I and II ( both CS and CK) in order to graduate. Please enlighten all of us who have taken these standardized tests how it is possible to cheat. I implore you.Furthermore I never advocated this route so I am unsure as to what ( if anything ) you were trying to suggest.
Finally, congrats on all the degrees. I also happen to have three degrees a BA in Philosophy, Bsc in chem, and a BA in law ( european institution). The philosophy and chem. were done concurrantly. I also have minors in psych. and bio. , not that it matters. Medicine will be my fourth undergraduate degree....but whose counting? Bragging about degrees is somewhat elitist don't you think?
By the way try to read more diligently next time in order to extract the essence of what is being discussed. I am uncertain as to the nature of your learning disability, but I am guessing it impinges upon your reading comprehension. Good luck.