applying to dermpath

[dp12345]

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Does anyone have any advice on which dermapth programs to apply to. I'm finishing up my 2nd year of path and I think facetime is prob most impt for dermpath but it's so hard to pick the right schools to go to and I doubt I could do that many anyway.

 

[yaah]

Well, just applying doesn't mean you have to go there. All it will really cost you is the stamps. I think most people would recommend that you cast a wide net, unless your application is truly stellar. Chances are, even if you are a great candidate, a lot of programs wouldn't invite you for interviews anyway.

 

[dp12345]

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[Nilf]

I'm not that stellar. What I have going is that I'm personable hence my reasoning that face time is most impt (or should be). My USMLE scores are a little above average. I want to apply to schools that give me the "most bang for my buck". For eg UTSW takes 5 a year. Definitely applying there. any more advice.

Post a mugshot.

 

[caffeinegirl]

I'm not that stellar. What I have going is that I'm personable hence my reasoning that face time is most impt (or should be). My USMLE scores are a little above average. I want to apply to schools that give me the "most bang for my buck". For eg UTSW takes 5 a year. Definitely applying there. any more advice.

Having face time beforehand may help your application, but it is not any sort of guarantee that you will get a spot at that program. As yaah said, cast a wiiiide net, cross your fingers and hope for the best.

 

[ScopeHound]

Most residents I knew that were like you, slightly above average scores applied to 20-25 programs, didn't get a single interview. I hope you have something more than being personable. Not to be rude, but put yourself in their shoes, they have dermatology residents applying with some of the top USMLE scores in the country so why would they take you. Have a backup.

 

[caffeinegirl]

A reasonable back-up is a surg path fellowship, which gives you more time to buff up that CV with projects, papers, and meetings before applying again to dermpath. Some programs actually require/prefer a surg path fellowship prior to dermpath.

 

[Gut Shot]

I wonder if it would be so competitive if it were spelled "durm."

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Hi,
Do the following scores in USMLE put me at a dis/advantage for a derm fellowship i want to use them to gauge how many programs to apply to.
step1 244, step 2 220, step 3 195.

 

[Anfield rd]

Hi,
Do the following scores in USMLE put me at a dis/advantage for a derm fellowship i want to use them to gauge how many programs to apply to.
step1 244, step 2 220, step 3 195.

Seriously, I don't understand why people pay so much attention to step I-III score while considering applying to dermpath. We've had this discussion recently, so let's not start to argue on how important scores are.

From what I've seen and heard, the application process looks something like that: you go to a program with dermpath fellowship, find out who is really in charge of fellow selection process, get multiple abstracts/publications, rub elbows with the faculty, get a letter of recomendation from a field leader, backstab other dermpathwannabe residents (there will be many, so protect your own behind), and go for it. Your best bet would be to make yourself indespensable in some way: i.e. if you are doing an important project with dermpath faculty, this is one incentive for them to keep you around for the fellowship. If you somehow strike out at your own program, then cast a WIDE net, apply nationwide, cross your fingers, and have a plan B. I've seen multiple candidates who applied to numerous programs without getting a single interview.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Seriously, I don't understand why people pay so much attention to step I-III score while considering applying to dermpath. We've had this discussion recently, so let's not start to argue on how important scores are.

From what I've seen and heard, the application process looks something like that: you go to a program with dermpath fellowship, find out who is really in charge of fellow selection process, get multiple abstracts/publications, rub elbows with the faculty, get a letter of recomendation from a field leader, backstab other dermpathwannabe residents (there will be many, so protect your own behind), and go for it. Your best bet would be to make yourself indespensable in some way: i.e. if you are doing an important project with dermpath faculty, this is one incentive for them to keep you around for the fellowship. If you somehow strike out at your own program, then cast a WIDE net, apply nationwide, cross your fingers, and have a plan B. I've seen multiple candidates who applied to numerous programs without getting a single interview.

Thanks mate. BTW MAN U RULES...... MWAHAHAHAHAHA!

 

[paleman]

sounds like sound advice. also, almost everyone i know who has wanted to do dermpath managed to get a fellowship somewhere in the end. may have to do surgpath or heme or something first.

 

[exPCM]

Hi,
Do the following scores in USMLE put me at a dis/advantage for a derm fellowship i want to use them to gauge how many programs to apply to.
step1 244, step 2 220, step 3 195.

As someone who interviewed at mutliple dermpath programs and completed a dermpath fellowship I think that unfortunately your scores do put you at a disadvantage. In dermpath you have to compete against derm residents with stellar board scores and board scores are one of the few objective criteria that can be used to compare applicants. I do not think you would get an interview at the program where I trained with a Step 3 score of 195. IMHO many of the residents on this site who think that board scores do not matter for dermpath will likely end up in a non-dermpath fellowship. Most of the programs I applied to required that USMLE scores be submitted and the scores were mentioned at all the programs where I interviewed. A track record of doing well on standardized tests is attractive since it does not look good for a program to have fellows fail the dermpath boards and the ACGME looks at failure rates as part of the accreditation process. Of course there are some programs that do not require you to submit board scores so the selection process is not identical everywhere. Good luck.

 

[Anfield rd]

As someone who interviewed at mutliple dermpath programs and completed a dermpath fellowship I think that unfortunately your scores do put you at a disadvantage. In dermpath you have to compete against derm residents with stellar board scores and board scores are one of the few objective criteria that can be used to compare applicants. I do not think you would get an interview at the program where I trained with a Step 3 score of 195. IMHO many of the residents on this site who think that board scores do not matter for dermpath will likely end up in a non-dermpath fellowship. Most of the programs I applied to required that USMLE scores be submitted and the scores were mentioned at all the programs where I interviewed. A track record of doing well on standardized tests is attractive since it does not look good for a program to have fellows fail the dermpath boards and the ACGME looks at failure rates as part of the accreditation process. Of course there are some programs that do not require you to submit board scores so the selection process is not identical everywhere. Good luck.

My experience was different. Scores were not mentioned on any interviews, and I was offered a spot. I don't remember how many programs asked me for scores, but it was fewer than 50% for sure. I think only 1 or 2 requested official transcripts.

However, it's wise to prepare for the worst case scenario, so go with what exPCM says. It never hurts to have stellar numbers, and it is the only subjective criterion available to the programs.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

Sooooo... we have this new resident. Tall, dark (mixed), g looking, confident type. Speaks like James Bond and is extremely articulate, played rugby semi-professionally in UK. Has a surgical background(1-2yrs) and is very up2date on the state of pathology (but doesn't know much abt practice just yet.. yippee!), the faculty gush over him and check this- he is engaged to a super-model. Yes, I hated him on site.
I almost shot him when he said he was interested in D-Path. And worse I know its got little to do with money----NO debts (UK System), and I beleive he has some stacked away.
The building for cosmetic surgery is straight ahead buddy. Move along.

 

[MasterThespian]

Hilarious!!

 

[yaah]

Easy there, I'm sure he loves skin. And I'm sure he wants to do academics. 😉

 

[DarksideAllstar]

As someone who interviewed at mutliple dermpath programs and completed a dermpath fellowship I think that unfortunately your scores do put you at a disadvantage. In dermpath you have to compete against derm residents with stellar board scores and board scores are one of the few objective criteria that can be used to compare applicants. I do not think you would get an interview at the program where I trained with a Step 3 score of 195. IMHO many of the residents on this site who think that board scores do not matter for dermpath will likely end up in a non-dermpath fellowship. Most of the programs I applied to required that USMLE scores be submitted and the scores were mentioned at all the programs where I interviewed. A track record of doing well on standardized tests is attractive since it does not look good for a program to have fellows fail the dermpath boards and the ACGME looks at failure rates as part of the accreditation process. Of course there are some programs that do not require you to submit board scores so the selection process is not identical everywhere. Good luck.

Dude, can I get into D-path with the following step scores:

1. Step 1: 280
2. Step 2: 300
3. Step 3: 314,000

Will I be competitive, or should I just throw in the towel now?

 

[exPCM]

Dude, can I get into D-path with the following step scores:

1. Step 1: 280
2. Step 2: 300
3. Step 3: 314,000

Will I be competitive, or should I just throw in the towel now?

You probably could have been a dermatologist with those scores. I recommend you apply to the University of Florida dermpath fellowship: see link http://www.pathology.ufl.edu/~resident/derm-fellowship.php
An excerpt from their site reads:
We require that all applicants pass USMLE steps 1, 2, 3 and the CSA.
Higher USMLE scores are more competitive and assist us in selecting applicants for interviews.
Many other programs use a similar policy although they may not explicitly state it to applicants. Your scores are definitely competitive for dermpath, especially the 314K on Step 3. I have been thinking of starting my own dermpath fellowship in the future. I would definitely consider serious applicants such as yourself who not only have great scores but are also respectful of the opinions of people who have actually successfully navigated the process. I would recommend you limit your use of the term "dude" during your fellowship interviews.

 

[yaah]

You know, there are other people who have navigated the process successfully who also know that there are other factors besides board scores. I know you're not saying board scores are everything, but it's starting to come across that way. I would suspect that if you asked the U of Florida or anyone else who considers board scores that they only consider them after looking at publication record and experience as well as some other factors. Just because a program mentions board scores on their website doesn't mean they are the most important arbiter of interview offer.

I would suspect that the board scores in question are not going to be a big problem. The rest of the application will be far more important. Apart from the step 3, they are solid scores which are not going to hurt you. And I have no idea how anyone evaluates step 3 scores for competitiveness purposes since 75% of the people who take it don't even care what they get on it.

 

[exPCM]

You know, there are other people who have navigated the process successfully who also know that there are other factors besides board scores. I know you're not saying board scores are everything, but it's starting to come across that way.

I agree that board scores are not everything just like looks are not everything. However it sure helps in applying to dermpath to have great board scores and it sure helps in life to be great looking. I think you are minimizing the importance of board scores. Many people do research and publish papers. Very few people scorre 260+ on the USMLEs. I do not expect to change your opinion but I am trying to post accurately from what I have seen.

 

[yaah]

OK, well I'm trying to post accurately from what I've seen. I think you're overestimating their importance. Anyone who gets a position and had high board scores can argue that the scores were really important, even if nobody cared. Just like anyone who got rejected can say it was because of their board scores, even if they weren't.

I just think people should focus on almost every other aspect of their application before they worry about how their board scores are going to matter. Obviously, getting high board scores is better for you than not getting high board scores. But step I and II occur in med school, often before you even know whether you are going to do dermpath or not. Of course, there are those individuals who say they knew they wanted to do dermpath since puberty, but these people are weird.

 

[exPCM]

OK, well I'm trying to post accurately from what I've seen. I think you're overestimating their importance. Anyone who gets a position and had high board scores can argue that the scores were really important, even if nobody cared. Just like anyone who got rejected can say it was because of their board scores, even if they weren't.

I just think people should focus on almost every other aspect of their application before they worry about how their board scores are going to matter. Obviously, getting high board scores is better for you than not getting high board scores. But step I and II occur in med school, often before you even know whether you are going to do dermpath or not. Of course, there are those individuals who say they knew they wanted to do dermpath since puberty, but these people are weird.

I have been attending ASDP meetings for 15 years going back to before I completed my dermpath fellowship. I would bet my n=50+ in terms of fellows I have spoken to about their interview experiences and the USMLEs.

 

[yaah]

I'm curious then about what they said specifically - because I have talked to probably a couple dozen successful applicants and while some mentioned USMLE scores as being requested or possibly constituting a minor component of the evaluation, none of them ever seemed to think it had a real impact on their application. But there is a wide range of opinions and experiences, so like I said I don't discount that there are programs out there that do look at them as a factor.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

You probably could have been a dermatologist with those scores. I recommend you apply to the University of Florida dermpath fellowship: see link http://www.pathology.ufl.edu/~resident/derm-fellowship.php
An excerpt from their site reads:
We require that all applicants pass USMLE steps 1, 2, 3 and the CSA.
Higher USMLE scores are more competitive and assist us in selecting applicants for interviews.
Many other programs use a similar policy although they may not explicitly state it to applicants. Your scores are definitely competitive for dermpath, especially the 314K on Step 3. I have been thinking of starting my own dermpath fellowship in the future. I would definitely consider serious applicants such as yourself who not only have great scores but are also respectful of the opinions of people who have actually successfully navigated the process. I would recommend you limit your use of the term "dude" during your fellowship interviews.

You need to ease up on the stimulants and calm the f*** down. The post was a joke (we only get like 400 thousand posts on SDN asking if people are competitive with x, y, z and on their applications). And yeah, my step scores (and my AOA status) probably could have got me into derm, and I bet that they might be good enough for dermpath (if such criteria even exists). If I were even remotely interested in looking at skin for the rest of my life. Dude.

This website is slowly killing me. Even a hiatus from this place may not help stem the tide of my discontent toward >90% of posters on here.

 

[caffeinegirl]

Thanks for reaffirming my suspicion Darkside. I totally thought you were kidding as well (duh! Step 3 score in the gazillions!). And I totally agree...things are totally way out of hand.

 

[exPCM]

You need to ease up on the stimulants and calm the f*** down. The post was a joke (we only get like 400 thousand posts on SDN asking if people are competitive with x, y, z and on their applications). And yeah, my step scores (and my AOA status) probably could have got me into derm, and I bet that they might be good enough for dermpath (if such criteria even exists). If I were even remotely interested in looking at skin for the rest of my life. Dude.

This website is slowly killing me. Even a hiatus from this place may not help stem the tide of my discontent toward >90% of posters on here.

My general experience is that a person who starts thinking that everybody else is messed up should really look inwards to see if they might not have their own imperfections. For someone who does not like skin it is somewhat ironic that you ended up at UCSF for residency with their highly publicized seven figure income dermatopathologists (LeBoit, McCalmont)

 

[exPCM]

Thanks for reaffirming my suspicion Darkside. I totally thought you were kidding as well (duh! Step 3 score in the gazillions!). And I totally agree...things are totally way out of hand.

I am not surprised that you think that things are out of hand. I think that it is only natural that people such as yourself with less than stellar USMLE scores (you listed your scores as 216 on Step 1 and 223 on Step 2 in another post) tend to get more bent out of shape by the fact that there are fellowship porgrams that actually require submission of USMLE scores and use the scores as part of the applicant screening and selection process.

 

[yaah]

I am not surprised that you think that things are out of hand. I think that it is only natural that people such as yourself with less than stellar USMLE scores (you listed your scores as 216 on Step 1 and 223 on Step 2 in another post) tend to get more bent out of shape by the fact that there are fellowship porgrams that actually require submission of USMLE scores and use the scores as part of the applicant screening and selection process.

Easy there buddy, not everyone wants to do dermpath and last thing I checked, you were the one who kept bringing up board scores, and not other people. So let's try to not belittle other people, especially about things that are relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

 

[LADoc00]

I sense much anger in this thread.

 

[yaah]

I sense much anger in this thread.

I guess you had low board scores then.

 

[exPCM]

Easy there buddy, not everyone wants to do dermpath and last thing I checked, you were the one who kept bringing up board scores, and not other people. So let's try to not belittle other people, especially about things that are relatively meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

I agree that there are many meaningless things in this world like grossing kidney stones and pediatric tonsils. However I am perplexed that on a thread titled "applying to dermpath" we have multiple postings by people not interested in or planning to apply to dermpath fellowships and who don't even like to look at skin. I think the original poster has more to gain from the experiences of people who have actually been through the process instead of people who have no interest in the process. I am not saying all programs are alike. You can see that from the well stated posts of Anfield Rd, etc.

 

[LADoc00]

I guess you had low board scores then.

I have no doubt there is a stadium full of FMGs that could hand me my azz in terms of board scores. But I couldnt if my life depended on it tell you what I got on em, in the 200s tho, never heard of 300 back in my days.

But Im an O.G., thats how I roll.

 

[Whiskeyjack]

This is fun i haven't been to a good soothsayer in ages........what do the archives tell you about me oh expcm.....yay or nay?

 

[exPCM]

I sense much anger in this thread.

I agree.

This is fun i haven't been to a good soothsayer in ages........what do the archives tell you about me oh expcm.....yay or nay?

Whiskeyjack: I predict that you will apply to 27 dermpath fellowships and you will land a spot quickly (despite the 195 on Step 3). After completing your dermpath fellowship you will likely join LeBoit and McCalmont as a seven figure annual income dermatopathologist. Good luck.

 

[yaah]

I agree that there are many meaningless things in this world like grossing kidney stones and pediatric tonsils. However I am perplexed that on a thread titled "applying to dermpath" we have multiple postings by people not interested in or planning to apply to dermpath fellowships and who don't even like to look at skin. I think the original poster has more to gain from the experiences of people who have actually been through the process instead of people who have no interest in the process. I am not saying all programs are alike. You can see that from the well stated posts of Anfield Rd, etc.

My point was that there was no need to attempt to belittle and insult another poster without merit.

 

[exPCM]

My point was that there was no need to attempt to belittle and insult another poster without merit.

I guess telling people "You need to ease up on the stimulants and calm the f*** down" is in Chapter 1 of the book of etiquette and
agreeing with and egging on such posters must be in Chapter 2. My apologies for any "insult" on my part.
As an SDN administrator can you not censor and/or delete posts that you feel are inappropriate?

 

[caffeinegirl]

I am not surprised that you think that things are out of hand. I think that it is only natural that people such as yourself with less than stellar USMLE scores (you listed your scores as 216 on Step 1 and 223 on Step 2 in another post) tend to get more bent out of shape by the fact that there are fellowship porgrams that actually require submission of USMLE scores and use the scores as part of the applicant screening and selection process.

I have no qualms about my record...a quick search of my posts and you'll know exactly who I am and where I'm at. This board used to quite different back in the good ol' days (I joined back in 2000!), and my comment was in reference to that. As for dermpath fellowships and acquiring one...I'm happy to say I'm going to a great program next year. My contributions to this thread and others are based on my personal experience, which I thought would actually help others as others have helped me in the past (go figure!).

 

[yaah]

I guess telling people "You need to ease up on the stimulants and calm the f*** down" is in Chapter 1 of the book of etiquette and
agreeing with and egging on such posters with must be in Chapter 2.

I wasn't talking about your response to him. You both got in some blows there so that one's an even fight. It was the other response you made. FYI we do not routinely censor or delete posts unless they are spam, they release personal information without authorization, or they are totally inappropriate (i.e. porno). To intervene otherwise is a very slippery slope and basically we depend on users to moderate themselves or to respond to warnings, etc, if necessary. As the bottom of each page says, reporting posts via the

button reports potentially actionable posts if you think they warrant any.

To return to the thread, back before that unpleasantness, by the way, I asked about your personal experience with board scores and applications and how it actually impacted your application (or that of others). As in, how do you know they made a big difference (apart from the UF website saying they have some sort of impact). Because as I said, I have yet to meet any successful applicant who mentioned board scores in more than passing as a relevant factor. And the only time they mentioned them was to say that some programs asked for them. I'm just kind of confused about the whole thing. Because from my perspective, programs consider just about every aspect of your application before they look at your med school board scores.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

FWIW I am an AOA member too. It really took me less than a nanosecond to figure out your post (including the Step 3 score of 314K) was not serious.

So...if you knew my post wasn't serious, then why did you say this:

would definitely consider serious applicants such as yourself who not only have great scores but are also respectful of the opinions of people who have actually successfully navigated the process. I would recommend you limit your use of the term "dude" during your fellowship interviews.

I mean, seriously, who makes a remark that is devoid of hyperbole and expects someone not to take it in a non-offensive way? I thought I made it pretty clear that my post was meant to convey the endless "numbers game" we have on SDN, without belittling your "experience" in the process.

BTW, my comment comes from chapter 3 of the book of etiquette.

 

[yaah]

OK, this thread is about one post away from being closed.

 

[LADoc00]

OK, this thread is about one post away from being closed.

Do IT.

And let it be known I was not the inflammatory poster who got it closed!

 

[Patrick O]

Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah....

For the last time... please.. get over board scores. There are many people out there that are getting into DP and aren't scoring in the stratosphere and a member of the AOA, including myself. Asking those types of "board score questions" at this point in your training is ridiculous. Get yourself out there, show your face, get to know people in the field, do research, and most importantly stay committed. Forget the stupid scores and good luck.