Applying to DO or MD?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Joe Jewel

Full Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
May 23, 2019
Messages
102
Reaction score
15
Hello All,

Hope everyone is staying safe and healthy. I am in the process of preparing to apply to medical schools. As a non-traditional career-changing student I was wondering if it would be wise to choose to apply to osteopathic medical schools as they tout the concept of being more open towards "older" applicants with more diverse backgrounds. It is my first time applying and I am wanting to increase my chances. On the other hand, I also want to apply to MD programs but not sure if I should delay that in case I reapply since this cycle might not be ideal for shadowing and taking the MCAT on time. If my point comes across as unclear, I wanted feedback on the question whether to apply to DO, MD, or both as a nontrad?

Thank You.
 
Where is your state of residence ? What are your sGPA and cGPA ? MCAT scores ? What are your ECs (shadowing hours and clinical volunteering or employment hours) ?
 
Hello @Faha and thank you for your questions. Currently, I live in NM. My sGPA is about 3.65 and cGPA is closer to 3.75. I work at a busy urgent care clinic and have done a couple of hundred hours of volunteering at a local ER-radiology department. At this time, I am in the process of preparing for the MCAT.
 
Considering your state of residence, assuming a 507+ MCAT, you have a shot an MD at UNM.
 
Definitely apply for both. Depending on your age and circumstances, I generally favor waiting a year if you have doubts about your application and feel you could substantially improve your application by delaying one cycle. Being a re-applicant makes things substantially more difficult, should you apply in unfavorable circumstances.
 
Thank you @NTF. I have been contemplating taking more time to apply and that is one reason I asked about whether to apply for DO or MD. I know people from both sides and shadowed (a little) with both "disciplines" (although I don't see any/much of a difference TBH). My current circumstances are a little more favorable than before so I am not sure if waiting another cycle will help me improve my application much considering the ongoing pandemic (it might take up much of 2020 and even go into next year without allowing me to observe/shadow/work with medical professionals. On the other hand, that can provide me with more time to prepare for the MCAT).
 
As an older non-trad, I found all of the DO school to be very friendly. That said, I received multiple MD acceptances but also had stats that were competitive for MD. All things being equal, my personal opinion is that DO schools tend to have a greater inclination towards non-trads.
 
Both but I am unsure whether or not I'm on osteopathic schools reject on sight list.
 
Try to get as high on the MCAT as possible (especially the BS section). Don't just try to get the 507. Go for the established MD school preferably your state school if possible. (For the MCAT studying (wish I knew this ahead of time), the AAMC materials are best; the real exam will be the same ideas (in very rare circumstances even the same A-D choices) or a similar concept (highest yield are SB, official guide, free practice, and FLs, but it will be presented in a different context - drawings vs explanations). Know all the explanations for the wrong choices not only in AAMC context for that particular problem (not just memorizing their answers), but go deeper because it will be tested in a different contexts. Very rarely, it will be the exact same context. DO will be fine if you are a medium to top student and you are not as selective about location. However, if you are on the bottom or lower areas will some red flags, it can be problematic. There are more barriers and some of them are increasing being formalized via Step 1 changes and residency changes.

Previously, DO had the advantage of AOA residencies (even if you were a poor student, you are only competing against each other because the top DO students are aiming university MD residencies). This year's match shows other people besides DOs are applying and filling previously DO positions. If current trends hold, it suggests they want the best students regardless where they come from. IMGs did not go down as I originally expected; if the trend holds, it will be more pain for weaker US students.

I just had a friend who is a graduating DO that did not match this year (He had the dual disadvantage of I believe repeating a year and being in a location that is over-saturated with medical schools). He is among the 9% of DOs that did not match this year and I am hoping he gets into a SOAP spot. (New! Press Release: Thousands of Medical Students and Graduates Celebrate NRMP Match Results - The Match, National Resident Matching Program). It is a hellish situation to be in not matching. I took a brief look at match after learning his troubles.

I don't know why people are celebrating the 2020 match. To me, it looks terrible. The total surplus number of SOAP spots open this year minus the number of unmatched US MD/DO students is around 60+. I remember the late 90s when non-trad IMGs who are out of practice for many years could get university programs even without any support. Things are quite dangerous. (Of the 6 DO interviews that I attended, only a single school talked briefly about residency (their concerns and hopes); it became my top DO choice despite being a weaker program because they are serious about this issue, but I ultimately decided to withdrawal from their WL after they emailed me back asking if I was still interested in staying on the list (somewhat painful decision) because DO has fundamentally changed). There is like 2000 IMG that are US citizen (probably Caribbean people) and some non-US IMG also competing for the SOAP seats. Doing medicine through the MD/DO path is a noble intention, but you have to take responsibility and think it through carefully. This is not a game because it is your life on the line and you are dealing with six figures of debt and a 6% interest rate per year after graduation. Most of the faculty are interested in the paycheck and going home after getting their required stuff done; they are not going to bend backwards and super analyze you to ensure you are going to be matched especially if you are a weaker student.

Keep this in mind, I thought the residency shortage was going to be an issue in 2024. It is clear that it is a problem this year with many schools able to steal a seat out of their traditional rotational spots range because of strong Step 1 scores by their students. I don't know how schools will adjust to doing well on the Step 2 or how they will expand their range of affiliated hospitals when the competition becomes even fiercer. I assume the Caribbean (still terrible place to go) will be willing to open their wallets more because their entire business model fails if they can't get people matched. The worst outcome will be if this becomes a battle of resources and wills instead of having better students and serving local needs. You will always be in a strong position if you are in the lead group, but there is real danger and less forgiving if you are a weaker student. Good luck and talk it out with people who are knowledgeable and have only your best interests in mind.
 
Last edited:
As an older non-trad, I found all of the DO school to be very friendly. That said, I received multiple MD acceptances but also had stats that were competitive for MD. All things being equal, my personal opinion is that DO schools tend to have a greater inclination towards non-trads.

Thank you @esob for the insights.
 
Try to get as high on the MCAT as possible (especially the BS section). Don't just try to get the 507. Go for the established MD school preferably your state school if possible. (For the MCAT studying (wish I knew this ahead of time), the AAMC materials are best; the real exam will be the same ideas (in very rare circumstances even the same A-D choices) or a similar concept (highest yield are SB, official guide, free practice, and FLs, but it will be presented in a different context - drawings vs explanations). Know all the explanations for the wrong choices not only in AAMC context for that particular problem (not just memorizing their answers), but go deeper because it will be tested in a different contexts. Very rarely, it will be the exact same context. DO will be fine if you are a medium to top student and you are not as selective about location. However, if you are on the bottom or lower areas will some red flags, it can be problematic. There are more barriers and some of them are increasing being formalized via Step 1 changes and residency changes.

Previously, DO had the advantage of AOA residencies (even if you were a poor student, you are only competing against each other because the top DO students are aiming university MD residencies). This year's match shows other people besides DOs are applying and filling previously DO positions. If current trends hold, it suggests they want the best students regardless where they come from. IMGs did not go down as I originally expected; if the trend holds, it will be more pain for weaker US students.

I just had a friend who is a graduating DO that did not match this year (He had the dual disadvantage of I believe repeating a year and being in a location that is over-saturated with medical schools). He is among the 9% of DOs that did not match this year and I am hoping he gets into a SOAP spot. (New! Press Release: Thousands of Medical Students and Graduates Celebrate NRMP Match Results - The Match, National Resident Matching Program). It is a hellish situation to be in not matching. I took a brief look at match after learning his troubles.

I don't know why people are celebrating the 2020 match. To me, it looks terrible. The total surplus number of SOAP spots open this year minus the number of unmatched US MD/DO students is around 60+. I remember the late 90s when non-trad IMGs who are out of practice for many years could get university programs even without any support. Things are quite dangerous. (Of the 6 DO interviews that I attended, only a single school talked briefly about residency (their concerns and hopes); it became my top DO choice despite being a weaker program because they are serious about this issue, but I ultimately decided to withdrawal from their WL after they emailed me back asking if I was still interested in staying on the list (somewhat painful decision) because DO has fundamentally changed). There is like 2000 IMG that are US citizen (probably Caribbean people) and some non-US IMG also competing for the SOAP seats. Doing medicine through the MD/DO path is a noble intention, but you have to take responsibility and think it through carefully. This is not a game because it is your life on the line and you are dealing with six figures of debt and a 6% interest rate per year after graduation. Most of the faculty are interested in the paycheck and going home after getting their required stuff done; they are not going to bend backwards and super analyze you to ensure you are going to be matched especially if you are a weaker student.

Keep this in mind, I thought the residency shortage was going to be an issue in 2024. It is clear that it is a problem this year with many schools able to steal a seat out of their traditional rotational spots range because of strong Step 1 scores by their students. I don't know how schools will adjust to doing well on the Step 2 or how they will expand their range of affiliated hospitals when the competition becomes even fiercer. I assume the Caribbean (still terrible place to go) will be willing to open their wallets more because their entire business model fails if they can't get people matched. The worst outcome will be if this becomes a battle of resources and wills instead of having better students and serving local needs. You will always be in a strong position if you are in the lead group, but there is real danger and less forgiving if you are a weaker student. Good luck and talk it out with people who are knowledgeable and have only your best interests in mind.

@ApplicantPerson88 your post is very informative and raises some questions about the future of medical schools considering the merger and perhaps the post-pandemic issues. I will keep in mind the fact that it is really competitive and I need to focus on putting together the best application possible.
 
@ApplicantPerson88 your post is very informative and raises some questions about the future of medical schools considering the merger and perhaps the post-pandemic issues. I will keep in mind the fact that it is really competitive and I need to focus on putting together the best application possible.

Absent a federal intervention. The future will be OK if you are doing well in class anywhere and are not trying to do something that has been never done at that school or well outside your resources range. It will be terrible if you are at the lower end of the class and in the wrong geographic area in the country. Non-trads have to play their cards more carefully because of age and the less able to bounce back from a serious setback. The merger weakens the position of all DO schools (sadly) and strength the hand of weaker MD students which I believe was their original intention all along. The Step 1 change was truly the deal breaker for me (did not know it was going to be happening my year; they asked no one else for opinions; took a while to sink in). It forced me to ask myself if I would be willing to retake the MCAT; try lab research again just to apply another cycle or do I start class in the Fall doing something else?

Until the Step 1 change, it doesn't matter how much supply is brought online as long as you feel confident you can out-compete MD/DO on Step 1, you are fine. Both of the DO that I shadowed did well on Step 1; matched into good university MD residencies. 1 is a faculty at an MD school and the other was not interested in becoming faculty (could have taken that path too). I have zero confidence that if they had a P/F score on Step 1; they could have gotten where they are today. The lateness of the Step 2 prevent any time of planning ahead for your last year of clerkship.

Go for the MD if possible (established schools); if you really are dead set on MD/DO, look at the DO match list carefully. How many of those residents were in their affiliated range? How many are in total different areas of the country with no real affiliated with the school? You can't see the full outcome until 2024 match because this year's entering class is going Step 1 is P/F. Faculty at nearly every DO school have no idea about the change or even having any preparation to migrate it. If no one takes Step 2, your school and how well you did will probably matter. One of the schools that I interviewed, the clinical dean at flat out made something up when he didn't know after an interviewee (tragically not me) asked an insightful question. That was when I knew things were bad. They were people pleasers their entire lives and got to where they are by playing politics (never really had to compete anything in harsh circumstances) and protected by an oversupply of seats. We will find out how things looks in 4 years.
 
Last edited:
I applied only MD this cycle and received many interviews and a handful of A's. I am a non-traditional, career changer, and new mom. I didn't sense any resistance from MD programs, although I'm sure my situation appealed to some and turned off others. It's a truly random process at times. On the whole, I didn't feel that my background held me back in any way. I was accepted to schools that were in the ballpark of my stats.
 
Congrats @SeamlessForFood on your hard work paying off. That is encouraging news to someone like myself. My circumstances are a little different but there are many parallels nonetheless. I am actually working a part-time job while caring for my retired/older parents who are staying with me. I am wanting to apply to medical school and maximize my chances considering my background as a non-traditional student who happens to be enrolled in a post-bacc. and from Middle-Eastern descent (if that matters).

The couple of stats that I am slightly concerned with are having enough time to study and score well on the MCAT. Also, looking at the MSAR it seems that quite a few MD programs focus on admitting "direct" pathway students that have a degree in science and go into the application pool as soon as possible.
 
Congrats @SeamlessForFood on your hard work paying off. That is encouraging news to someone like myself. My circumstances are a little different but there are many parallels nonetheless. I am actually working a part-time job while caring for my retired/older parents who are staying with me. I am wanting to apply to medical school and maximize my chances considering my background as a non-traditional student who happens to be enrolled in a post-bacc. and from Middle-Eastern descent (if that matters).

The couple of stats that I am slightly concerned with are having enough time to study and score well on the MCAT. Also, looking at the MSAR it seems that quite a few MD programs focus on admitting "direct" pathway students that have a degree in science and go into the application pool as soon as possible.

I guess I was trying to say that many MD programs value diversity as well, and will value your experiences caring for your family. I wouldn't put too much thought into the MSAR description you mentioned -- I'm not sure you're interpreting "direct pathway" accurately but I'm not able to reference it. It'll come down to your MCAT score, as others have already suggested. With a decent score, I would apply very broadly to MD programs if I were you.
 
Thanks again @SeamlessForFood for your insights. That's my goal is to score as high as possible with a target of 60-65th percentile at a minimum in order to broaden my reach. What I meant by a direct route would be people finishing high school, graduating college, and going straight into medical school. I maybe years away from that (although some think I am still in high school maybe because of my outgoing attitude or my 'immaturity' 🙂, but still hold hope for a chance to attend medical school in the near future as several family members and friends have done.
 
Top