Applying to Enough Schools?

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Anybody care to comment on my application?

http://mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?myid=8008

I'm not sure if I should apply to more programs or less... My research professor seems to think that I'll probably not be accepted to any program, but I think (hope...) that she's being overly pessimistic...


You have grades and MCAT scores that won't hold you back, a ton of volunteering, and many other EC's. The weakness to your application, as I see it, is the quantity of research. I saw 3 semesters of biochem research, but that will be a little bit on the light side for MD/PhD programs. However, it seems like the quality of your research is great: The fact that you already have a first author pub in press is phenomenal, and that should help you out a lot.

I think you have a good mix of schools based on your profile. You also already plan to apply to about 20 schools, which is a lot. I say give it a go with this list. If you get nervous, you can always submit 5 or 10 more apps in August. I really think that you'll do just fine in the process.

One thing you may want to keep in mind is that your research and academic background seems to suggest that you're interested in chem, but you indicate that you want to do a PhD in neuroscience. Adcoms like to see coherence in applications, so make sure that you stress why you are interested in neuroscience (e.g., you've studied chemistry from an inorganic standpoint, then you've researched chemistry from a more biochemical standpoint, and now you want to apply that knowledge to study chemistry from a biomedical standpoint because you're interested in medicine and disease, yadda yadda). If you don't do this, they'll be thinking "this guy has minimal neuroscience background but he wants to do a PhD in neuroscience? What is he thinking?". Of course, it doesn't really matter what you write on the application because you can change your mind about the PhD once you get there, so it might even behoove you to simply write that you're interested in a biochemistry PhD.
 
Of course, it doesn't really matter what you write on the application because you can change your mind about the PhD once you get there, so it might even behoove you to simply write that you're interested in a biochemistry PhD.

Hi Solitude, thanks a lot for that comment, I hadn't considered that point. Doesn't the interview process include interviews with researchers in whatever field you mark, though? It seems like it would be helpful to talk to neuroscience faculty... Although it's probably more important to steer clear of unwanted questions, I suppose. I'll keep that in mind.
Soluman
 
Hi Solitude, thanks a lot for that comment, I hadn't considered that point. Doesn't the interview process include interviews with researchers in whatever field you mark, though? It seems like it would be helpful to talk to neuroscience faculty... Although it's probably more important to steer clear of unwanted questions, I suppose. I'll keep that in mind.
Soluman


Yeah, you're right that you'll have interviews with neuroscience researchers. Perhaps to make your application semi-coherent, you could check both neuroscience and biochemistry PhD, or, as I mentioned earlier, you could just provide a good explanation for why you want to switch from chem/biochem to neuroscience. Or you could do both.
 
Yeah, I'll go back and check both. Thanks a lot for the advice.
 
One thing you may want to keep in mind is that your research and academic background seems to suggest that you're interested in chem, but you indicate that you want to do a PhD in neuroscience. Adcoms like to see coherence in applications, so make sure that you stress why you are interested in neuroscience (e.g., you've studied chemistry from an inorganic standpoint, then you've researched chemistry from a more biochemical standpoint, and now you want to apply that knowledge to study chemistry from a biomedical standpoint because you're interested in medicine and disease, yadda yadda). If you don't do this, they'll be thinking "this guy has minimal neuroscience background but he wants to do a PhD in neuroscience? What is he thinking?".

Is this really true? What is your source on this? At least for PhD-only programs this is not really the case. Most people switch fields sometime any way. PIs consistently higher graduate students from other fields to do post docs. Even PIs will become excited about new fields, and they may switch to them (I work for one and I know many others). It is riducous to expect PhD and MD/PhD program applicants to have completed research in the field they want to do their PhD in. You may be more marketable to PhD programs in the field you have done research in, but it should hopefully not kill an application.

To the OP, if you are not interested in biochemistry do not list it. I would just read neuroscience literature and attend lectures to get a better idea of what the field involves. Have a passionate and logical reasons to do neuroscience for when the adcoms ask. If you are interested to both fields, then list them.

If anyone has evidence that this is harmful for an application, I would love to hear it. As for now, I doubt this is true.
 
Is this really true? What is your source on this? At least for PhD-only programs this is not really the case. Most people switch fields sometime any way. PIs consistently higher graduate students from other fields to do post docs. Even PIs will become excited about new fields, and they may switch to them (I work for one and I know many others). It is riducous to expect PhD and MD/PhD program applicants to have completed research in the field they want to do their PhD in. You may be more marketable to PhD programs in the field you have done research in, but it should hopefully not kill an application.

To the OP, if you are not interested in biochemistry do not list it. I would just read neuroscience literature and attend lectures to get a better idea of what the field involves. Have a passionate and logical reasons to do neuroscience for when the adcoms ask. If you are interested to both fields, then list them.

If anyone has evidence that this is harmful for an application, I would love to hear it. As for now, I doubt this is true.


Sorry if I gave the impression that this will kill an application--that's definitely not what I meant. But I do think that adcoms are at least subconsciously swayed by something like this. For example, I have a friend who's a chem and math major, has done a ton of research in inorganic chem, and really wants to do his PhD in inorganic chem (via an MD/PhD program). Obviously, he's telling programs that that is his area of interest, and his application will be very coherent. If he instead told them that he wanted to do his PhD in neuroscience, when he has taken no neuroscience courses and very few biology courses, you have to think that an app reader would at least be subconsciously swayed that that's an incoherent plan - and by extension perhaps a bad idea - and that could at least slightly diminish his chances. The same would be true if I wrote that I wanted to do my PhD in inorganic chem--with only a few chem courses and no research in chem, there would be a disconnect there that would have to be at least a slight turn off to the adcom.

Of course you're right that people switch fields often, and that nobody should be expected to have done undergrad research in their PhD field. But when you're applying to MD/PhD programs against the cream of the crop, many people will have very coherent plans (e.g., a biochem major, done 3 years of biochem research, wants to be a biochemist) and it's best to have a coherent plan as well. As I said before, it doesn't matter what you actually end up doing, you just have to sell yourself and your plan. Once you're in, you can do just fine doing a PhD in any field.

But again, I don't think that this is a very important part of application at all, but every little bit helps.

FYI, my source is my PI who is on the Duke MSTP adcom, and a number of adcom members at another MSTP with which I am familiar.
 
Sorry if I gave the impression that this will kill an application--that's definitely not what I meant. But I do think that adcoms are at least subconsciously swayed by something like this. For example, I have a friend who's a chem and math major, has done a ton of research in inorganic chem, and really wants to do his PhD in inorganic chem (via an MD/PhD program). Obviously, he's telling programs that that is his area of interest, and his application will be very coherent. If he instead told them that he wanted to do his PhD in neuroscience, when he has taken no neuroscience courses and very few biology courses, you have to think that an app reader would at least be subconsciously swayed that that's an incoherent plan - and by extension perhaps a bad idea - and that could at least slightly diminish his chances. The same would be true if I wrote that I wanted to do my PhD in inorganic chem--with only a few chem courses and no research in chem, there would be a disconnect there that would have to be at least a slight turn off to the adcom.

Of course you're right that people switch fields often, and that nobody should be expected to have done undergrad research in their PhD field. But when you're applying to MD/PhD programs against the cream of the crop, many people will have very coherent plans (e.g., a biochem major, done 3 years of biochem research, wants to be a biochemist) and it's best to have a coherent plan as well. As I said before, it doesn't matter what you actually end up doing, you just have to sell yourself and your plan. Once you're in, you can do just fine doing a PhD in any field.

But again, I don't think that this is a very important part of application at all, but every little bit helps.

FYI, my source is my PI who is on the Duke MSTP adcom, and a number of adcom members at another MSTP with which I am familiar.

Apply to as many programs as possible without jeopardizing your ability to put forth maximum effort on each of your applications/interviews. You are an excellent MD/PhD candidate, and most programs do not require you to specify a field of interest-- they'll simply want to know about your current research and how it relates to your long-term goals. Keep the faith alive -- if I hadn't applied to 18 (ish?) schools, I would not have had a big surpise on may 15.

solitude, does your friend's name begin with the letter A?
 
why on earth did your advisor tell you that?

Hi Meowkat, If you're saying that my advisor might have been too pessimistic, then I hope you're right. Unfortunately for me, there doesn't seem to be any principled way to compare myself to other MD/PhD applicants except by looking at other people on this forum. I can't find any real statistics, not even about applications let alone admissions, to reassure myself that I'm competitive for a slot.

By the way, on your profile you mentioned that you would accept an MD-only slot. I would as well, if worse comes to worst, do you know any statistics on this? At what point are MD/PhD applicants considered for MD only slots? At the very end of the admissions process or when we would be rejected from the MSTP?
 
Sorry if I gave the impression that this will kill an application--that's definitely not what I meant. But I do think that adcoms are at least subconsciously swayed by something like this. For example, I have a friend who's a chem and math major, has done a ton of research in inorganic chem, and really wants to do his PhD in inorganic chem (via an MD/PhD program). Obviously, he's telling programs that that is his area of interest, and his application will be very coherent. If he instead told them that he wanted to do his PhD in neuroscience, when he has taken no neuroscience courses and very few biology courses, you have to think that an app reader would at least be subconsciously swayed that that's an incoherent plan - and by extension perhaps a bad idea - and that could at least slightly diminish his chances. The same would be true if I wrote that I wanted to do my PhD in inorganic chem--with only a few chem courses and no research in chem, there would be a disconnect there that would have to be at least a slight turn off to the adcom.

Of course you're right that people switch fields often, and that nobody should be expected to have done undergrad research in their PhD field. But when you're applying to MD/PhD programs against the cream of the crop, many people will have very coherent plans (e.g., a biochem major, done 3 years of biochem research, wants to be a biochemist) and it's best to have a coherent plan as well. As I said before, it doesn't matter what you actually end up doing, you just have to sell yourself and your plan. Once you're in, you can do just fine doing a PhD in any field.

But again, I don't think that this is a very important part of application at all, but every little bit helps.

FYI, my source is my PI who is on the Duke MSTP adcom, and a number of adcom members at another MSTP with which I am familiar.

Are any of your sources neuroscientists? Neuroscience (my current area of research and area of future interest) is a very interdisciplinary field. PhD-only programs claim they want people in physical science, biology, math, and sometimes psychology. All of these areas are an integrated part of the field. Neuroscientist do mathmatical modeling of neural networks, physiology, and drug design which all require a great knowledge of physical science, biochemistry, and math. Tons of people with math and physical science backgrounds get into the top neuroscience PhD programs at least. Do MD/PhD programs really disfavor neuroscience applications from people outside of this field? It really seems strange since there is a lot of love for them from PhD only admin committees. Anyone care to comment on this??

If the OP wanted to do microbiology instead, it may be more of a problem but he/she would probably get lots of love from neuroscience programs themselves (hopefully this is the same for combined MD/neuroscience PhDs).
 
In my experience, adcoms are not at all put off by someone with a chemistry background wanting to do neuro or micro or immunology, etc. We expect that most students' thesis work will differ greatly from their undergrad research experiences. We look for students with outstanding potential; it does not matter what their previous research discipline was (as long as it was a physical/life science) or what they intend to do thesis work in (as long as it is biomedically relevant.)
 
Hey, thanks for your help everybody. Do you think I should mention that I'm interested in Neuroscience in my MD/PhD essay? What should I put in there anyway? I feel like anything I could write would be so obvious as to be silly...
 
No, none of my sources are neuroscientists. Like I mentioned earlier, I think that "disfavor" is too strong of a word. I think (and have heard directly from them) that adcoms are going to be at least subconsciously swayed by an incoherent application, but that this is not a very important aspect of an application. Maebea - who is a more authoratitive source - disagrees.

Based on this, I just wouldn't worry about it very much. As long as you have a good explanation for why you want to do the PhD in X, it probably doesn't matter what you write.


Are any of your sources neuroscientists? Neuroscience (my current area of research and area of future interest) is a very interdisciplinary field. PhD-only programs claim they want people in physical science, biology, math, and sometimes psychology. All of these areas are an integrated part of the field. Neuroscientist do mathmatical modeling of neural networks, physiology, and drug design which all require a great knowledge of physical science, biochemistry, and math. Tons of people with math and physical science backgrounds get into the top neuroscience PhD programs at least. Do MD/PhD programs really disfavor neuroscience applications from people outside of this field? It really seems strange since there is a lot of love for them from PhD only admin committees. Anyone care to comment on this??

If the OP wanted to do microbiology instead, it may be more of a problem but he/she would probably get lots of love from neuroscience programs themselves (hopefully this is the same for combined MD/neuroscience PhDs).
 
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