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Are you worried about matching? A candidate with red flags or a terrible application? Probably no other downside.
Otherwise, it's just overkill.
Otherwise, it's just overkill.
G
gunnerdoc
Unsure. No failures, DO, Step 1 240, GPA 3.75, good/decent LORs, satisfactory ECs, all A/B+ in rotations. Disadvantages - 1 month LOA between MS2/MS3 to study, does not affect grad date. Won't have Step II in time for ERAS, but prob. in time for interviews.
I just don't like leaving things up to chance. I like overkill.
I just don't like leaving things up to chance. I like overkill.
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As per the name gunner doc
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According to other people on the forum, having step 2 in made a big difference. However, given the step 1 of 240, that probably doesn't apply to you.
So the downside is all the work to reply to 200 programs to tell them that you don't have the time in your schedule to interview with them.
G
gunnerdoc
Haha, I know what it sounded like when I made it, but the gunner is actually a reference to participating in marksmanship competitions.
I figured the Step 2 thing was a big deal, which is probably why I'm trying to compensate. That and I'd kick myself if I didn't get enough interviews.
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Apply to your favorite 40 programs. 240 is overkill.
I mean, you can do whatever you want, but that would be my advice.
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The downside is that you clutter the desktops of 200 PDs and coordinators with an application that you have no real interest in following through on.
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As @OldPsychDoc suggested, the main downside is wasting the time of the vast majority of people who will see you app. You may be someone who doesn't care about that sort of thing.
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I think a targeted approach is more valuable. No need to apply to MGH when you know you aren't going to get in.
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I have a Step 1 of 239 , top 5-10% preclinicals, proven Psych interest, honors in IM clerkship...I am still wondering if it is a good idea to Step 2 CK?
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Overkill in your case would be applying to 30 to 40 programs. It wouldn't be applying to all 200 programs. You seriously have no red flags, and the odds of you not matching are almost non-existent. Just don't only interview at reach places that rarely/never take DOs, and you'll be fine. Too bad your school made you actually take a LOA for one month to study for Step 1. Isn't that normally built into the curriculum? I'm remembering having finals for MS2 sometime in mid-May and then having to take Step 1 by the end of June. I'm feeling a bit annoyed at your school for not building that in -- Step 1 is pretty important for your life.
How would you be able to figure out which interviews to accept? It would be a scheduling nightmare for you.
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Unless the world has really changed recently, I don't see why it would be that important. Your step 1 score and previous academic achievement means you have a solid knowledge base and are very unlikely to fail Step 2. Some programs specifically require Step 2 scores before ranking, but those are rare. But I don't think a drop from your Step 1 to Step 2 score is that big of a deal in psych either unless it's really significant so maybe there's not a ton to lose by taking it sooner. Logistically I worry more about scheduling CS because it's so hard to schedule and can take months to be scored -- I'd hate to find out that I failed that test in February and need to scramble to take it again before starting residency. But that's just my own anxiety (and why I took CS in July of my 4th year, months before I took CK).
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And it's not like all the interviews are offered within a narrow window, giving you time to sort through and pick your favorites. Instead, you'd wind up accepting a lot of interviews and later declining then when more favorable interviews come your way.
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My home program director mentioned that she really likes to see Step 2 CK early if possible. From other posts on this board, it seems that other programs feel even more strongly about it. I don't know about psych specifically, but it seems that the trend for most specialties is that more and more programs are taking that stance. At this point, taking it before applications is probably a good idea, though probably not a dealbreaker yet.
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I meant to take Step 2 CK (I am a DO student)? Given the fact that I have a Step 1 of 239/COMLEX: 601, proven psych interest with extracurriculars, pre-clinicals top 5-10%, and honors in IM clerkship, should I take USMLE Step 2CK or just take COMLEX Level 2?
G
gunnerdoc
An excellent point, I'd hate to be an inconvenience like that. I think I will go with my original list of 20-30 or so.
G
gunnerdoc
(double post)
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well your preclinical grades are irrelevant, and depending on which DO school you attend, your clerkship grades may be irrelevant (or at least treated with extreme suspicion). Regardless, I think it is unlikely that staking step 2 would make you more competitive, though this might depend on which programs you were shooting for. The reality is that those programs who are most happy to have DOs are familiar with the COMLEX and are fine with it, though it is nice to have taken step 1 (as you have done) as this is the only thing we have to really compare applicants objectively. Now things are hotting up, I think it is a very good idea for osteopathic students to do step 1 (if they think they can score well) but I can't see what it adds to do step 2 tbh.
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A lot of DO schools give very little dedicated study time for boards. I had to trade up a vacation block in 3rd year for a study block before Step 1. I'm convinced most DO schools hate their students.
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The biggest downside would be you realizing a few months later that you could've used all that money to put a downpayment on a house or a nice car.
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Just to chime in for the step 2 question (sorry if it's already been answered here) ..I'd take it early if possible. I didn't because I had a step 1 that I felt was gonna carry me through. Well, I took ck in November and once I released my scores in december I got about 1/3 of my total interviews right then.
Saying that, I had about 8 already so it's not like I wasn't gonna match. But the place I ranked first and am at now is one that I got an interview after releasing my ck score. So no it won't affect if you match or not, but it may have some effect on where you can interview. This was just last year for me so I'd assume it'll be similar this year.
Saying that, I had about 8 already so it's not like I wasn't gonna match. But the place I ranked first and am at now is one that I got an interview after releasing my ck score. So no it won't affect if you match or not, but it may have some effect on where you can interview. This was just last year for me so I'd assume it'll be similar this year.
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What will you do when 180 of 240 offer you an interview? I'd be worried about forgetting to withdraw from a program and risking upsetting someone in a position of power. How will you keep track of each program? What if you accidentally then schedule an interview with the wrong UT or UC school?
This would be a logistical nightmare for me.
This would be a logistical nightmare for me.
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You're not applying for dermatology, you're applying for psych! Even on the extreme end you might attend 15-20 interview right? You could go way overboard and apply to 10 reaches, 20 programs that seem to be a good chance / good fit, and 10 programs that are typically very uncompetitive for someone with your application. You would probably fill your 15-20 interviews with that list. You would also narrow down beforehand which programs interest you the most, decreasing your agony deciding later on and increasing the odds that you can network (for instance, see if attendings at your program can put in a good word for you with attendings at your program of interest).
The disadvantages of applying to every program (off the top of my head):
-Extreme cost
-It would take a ton of extra time dealing with all the correspondence
-It is a total waste of 100+ programs' time (they have to review you when you had no interest at all)
-As mentioned above you risk getting mixed up with the mess you made for yourself and offending people by not responding / mixing up logistics
-If your plan leaks to others it will be a source of shame (it comes across as oddly desperate)
If you were going to get a 10% response rate and have a low shot at matching the programs that did interview you, then sure, applying to every program would make great sense. Do a reality check with recent grads from your program and with attendings who have advised them, though, because that shouldn't be the case. And if you get an 80% invite rate your plan will create lots of headaches for you.
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^ You fail to mention some advantages:
- It plays right into the applicant's laziness as he/she does not have to research the programs right now.
- It'll be a great ego-boost when you have 50-odd interviews. You can even boast about it to your friends!
- "You get to travel and see various cities. When else could you see so many cities in one year!"
- It plays right into the applicant's laziness as he/she does not have to research the programs right now.
- It'll be a great ego-boost when you have 50-odd interviews. You can even boast about it to your friends!
- "You get to travel and see various cities. When else could you see so many cities in one year!"
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It still doesn't: as was mentioned above, if your application is so weak you're afraid of not matching and therefore feel compelled to apply to every single program, there's no point in wasting money by applying to MGH, Columbia, UCSF, UCLA etc
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This is correct.
With the OPs solid stats, it would be wiser to apply "smarter" as opposed to "broad". I'm fairly certain if the OP applied to 100 "low-end" Community Psych Programs, they could potentially get over 50 interviews. And on the flip side, applying to Top 15 programs is probably unrealistic. With stats of 240/3.75, OP should be looking at 50 programs, 40 realistic, 10 reach as well as considering geographic location.
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That still seems like a lot...
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I agree, I usually advise 20-30 programs. But considering the OP is inquiring about 240 programs....
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Yeah would applying to 20 programs (smart choices) for 10 or so interviews/ranks be a better idea?
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I looked through the thread again and would like to clarify (I posted the quoted response without remembering the details of OP's posts): OP's application is by no means weak, great Step 1 score, solid grades - he/she would be competitive for top programs if he went to an MD school. Going to a DO school, unfortunately, screws this up quite a bit (whether it's fair or not) 🙁 So in his/her place I would only apply to top programs that have DO residents - again, I'm not saying it's fair but I know for a fact that certain top programs in popular locations don't even consider DOs. So do your research regarding this - as well as other things that matter to you - and that will shorten your list significantly.
G
gunnerdoc
Yes - to all the above posters, I did a search of every residency program to see which one had DOs - as expected, there were few to none in NY/CA, and some state programs. And then narrowed it down by locations I would not wish to live in, to create my final, much shortened list.
