Applying to Medical School after a dismissal from a graduate degree program

[zminer123]

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Hello all,
First off, forgive me if I am posting in the wrong place. I am willing to go to an allopathic OR an osteopathic school, but I chose to post in the allopathic section...

Here is my situation.
As a third year undergraduate student double majoring in chemistry and computer science (approximately 5 years ago, 2013) , my uncle was diagnosed with cancer. I had considered medical school before, but not with enough seriousness to make it my goal. After this emotional jolt I decided I wanted to work towards medicine. I dropped my comp sci major and kept only chemistry. I did my best to improve my GPA (ended with only a 3.3) and took all my prereqs (I had to take almost all of them in one semester). I took the MCAT and received a 33 my first attempt. (508 second attempt) After applying to 5 schools (all fairly low ranked schools in competitiveness) I failed to receive a single interview. In order to try to increase my GPA (which most schools said was my primary factor) I went back to a community college and took all of their biology classes offered. I managed to pull off all As, and raised my GPA slightly (3.4). I applied again, and was still denied interviews. Luckily (or unluckily, as you're about to read about) one of my hopeful schools suggested I apply to their Master's of Anatomy program. I did so, interviewed, and was accepted. Almost right away, I had trouble with the classes. I saw professors outside of class time, worked with the library's Center for Teaching and Learning (CTL), and quit my full time and part time jobs. By the end of my first semester, my advisor suggested I drop two of my classes in order to maintain my GPA (the program had a 3.25 requirement). I did as suggested. During my second semester, my problems persisted, and I was given a date for an academic dismissal hearing. On suggestion from the CTL, I saw my physician regarding the possibility of an attention defecot disorder. My family has a history, and I had been on medications for a short time in my childhood ( I was taken off of the medications due to them causing mood swings). I was diagnosed with ADD (not ADHD) and started taking medications. Immediately my grades took a large upswing. Only 9 days after starting my medications, I got my highest grade so far on an anatomy final. I then got an A on a physiology test. After this promising upswing, I had my dismissal hearing. Even though I had a doctor's note and ample documentation of my stellar study habits, they decided to dismiss me. It has been almost one year since then. I have seen a lawyer, applied to Ross University, and I am working on trying to get into a different master's program.... I am not sure what to do. I'm unwilling to give up on my dreams, but the path before me is not clear.

Things I have in my favor include:
- I have NOT matriculated. I have never technically been enrolled in medical school, and therefore I haven't been dismissed from medical school.
- I have a massive amount of clinical experience in healthcare. I am a cardiac monitor technician and I have thousands of hours of experience with direct patient care.
- My current MCAT is a 508, and I plan to retake soon. (My 508 was from May of 2015, so I am at the end of it's life). I believe I will do MUCH better this time, considering I didn't know how to study before and I didn't have the tools to deal with my ADD before either.
- My initial diagnosis of ADD was only through my Primary Care Physician. In order to further characterize the nature and degree of my ADD, I paid for a professional neurological consult to confirm the findings. As a result, my diagnosis is clear and certain. My lawyer told me one reason they may have dismissed me is because there is rampant lying about ADD in graduate level programs and it often causes people to doubt whether or not potential failing students truly have the illness with which they are presenting.

Unfortunately, my dismissal has held me back from Ross. They told me that even with my stats (which were at least DECENT for Caribbean medical school) they wouldn't accept me because of my dismissal. I am working with the school that dismissed me, and it is possible I will be able to reapply and be admitted into their MSA program again... My main concern is that it won't be enough to mitigate my initial failure out of the program. Does anyone know if being accepted into the same program and successfully completing said program would remove the dismissal?

Does anyone have thoughts on what I should do? I am unwilling to give up on my dreams, but other than giving up, I am willing to do ANY work required. I owe that to both myself and to my uncle (who has been dead for a little over 2 years now)

Thanks in advance for any guidance.

 

[curbsideconsult]

If Ross is saying this is a major obstacle, I don't see how any US med school is going to say otherwise. Same goes for PA/NP or any other professional or grad program. You might need a looooooot of time between what happened and when you try again.

 

[GypsyHummus]

That is the problem with SMP's. They are high risk, high reward. People focus on the success stories alot, forgetting that there are people who fail.

If it were me, I would look into other alternative healthcare professional schools that would still give me a chance to be a doctor, but can overlook my previous academic punts. Schools to ponder are Optometry, Podiatry, and Dentistry. Of these, Podiatry is going to be your closest thing to being an MD/DO. They would salivate at the thought of a 33 MCAT score applying and might even let the SMP failure slide.

Personally, I wouldnt go down the PA or NP route. I would also skip Pharmacy at this current time.

Something isnt adding up though. You had a 3.3 GPA and a 33 (later 508) MCAT. Did you not apply to any DO schools the first time around? Those stats would have nabbed you several acceptances.

 

[Dr. Meliodas]

That is the problem with SMP's. They are high risk, high reward. People focus on the success stories alot, forgetting that there are people who fail.

If it were me, I would look into other alternative healthcare professional schools that would still give me a chance to be a doctor, but can overlook my previous academic punts. Schools to ponder are Optometry, Podiatry, and Dentistry. Of these, Podiatry is going to be your closest thing to being an MD/DO. They would salivate at the thought of a 33 MCAT score applying and might even let the SMP failure slide.

Personally, I wouldnt go down the PA or NP route. I would also skip Pharmacy at this current time.

Something isnt adding up though. You had a 3.3 GPA and a 33 (later 508) MCAT. Did you not apply to any DO schools the first time around? Those stats would have nabbed you several acceptances.

OP applied to 5 schools . . . ONLY 5 that is insane. There are so many qualified applicants that even if OP had the stats and everything he might still not be accepted yet he/she applied to just 5 schools. That was the only mistake. If OP would have not done the SMP and just applied to a decent number of schools (with his/her stats probably around 25 schools - mind you many students with low stats apply to many more than 25 by the way) they would have probably gotten at least a few II and possibly been accepted and avoided this whole issue.

 

[zminer123]

That is the problem with SMP's. They are high risk, high reward. People focus on the success stories alot, forgetting that there are people who fail.

If it were me, I would look into other alternative healthcare professional schools that would still give me a chance to be a doctor, but can overlook my previous academic punts. Schools to ponder are Optometry, Podiatry, and Dentistry. Of these, Podiatry is going to be your closest thing to being an MD/DO. They would salivate at the thought of a 33 MCAT score applying and might even let the SMP failure slide.

Personally, I wouldnt go down the PA or NP route. I would also skip Pharmacy at this current time.

Something isnt adding up though. You had a 3.3 GPA and a 33 (later 508) MCAT. Did you not apply to any DO schools the first time around? Those stats would have nabbed you several acceptances.

I applied to ONLY DO schools the first time around actually. DMU, AT Stills, and a few others. I didn't even get an interview. My goal was Des Moines University, and that is where I went for my MSA. I am still trying to work with them, but I am losing hope. I started too late in the game to be competetive without extra work and I think it's very unfortunate that a brief time of failure that can be attributed to mental health concerns can't be overcome...

 

[zminer123]

I applied to ONLY DO schools the first time around actually. DMU, AT Stills, and a few others. I didn't even get an interview. My goal was Des Moines University, and that is where I went for my MSA. I am still trying to work with them, but I am losing hope. I started too late in the game to be competetive without extra work and I think it's very unfortunate that a brief time of failure that can be attributed to mental health concerns can't be overcome...

I also didn't really have much help in terms of undergraduate advisors helping me plan for my medical school application. I didn't even know that 5 was an insanely low number of school at which to apply.

 

[zminer123]

OP applied to 5 schools . . . ONLY 5 that is insane. There are so many qualified applicants that even if OP had the stats and everything he might still not be accepted yet he/she applied to just 5 schools. That was the only mistake. If OP would have not done the SMP and just applied to a decent number of schools (with his/her stats probably around 25 schools - mind you many students with low stats apply to many more than 25 by the way) they would have probably gotten at least a few II and possibly been accepted and avoided this whole issue.

So now that I know I was wrong to apply to so few schools... Do you have any ideas on how I may be able to right my course? I plan on retaking the MCAT. If I were to get a very high score, do you think it would help?

 

[GypsyHummus]

Im very surprised you did not get any love from those programs with a 33 MCAT. Did you not have a DO letter?

I applied to ONLY DO schools the first time around actually. DMU, AT Stills, and a few others. I didn't even get an interview. My goal was Des Moines University, and that is where I went for my MSA. I am still trying to work with them, but I am losing hope. I started too late in the game to be competetive without extra work and I think it's very unfortunate that a brief time of failure that can be attributed to mental health concerns can't be overcome...

 

[Dr. Meliodas]

You can 100% turn this around, it will take time, and effort and then when you apply you make sure to highlight how you grew and learned from your mistakes (in reference to your SMP performance). If you can get accepted again into the SMP that would be ideal, and once there you need to kick ass and I mean kick ass. Your GPA was not bad at all for DO schools, and your MCAT was very competitive for many DO schools. Now all you need to do is show that you've overcome your mental health issues and you are able to excel in medical school - and you do that by again kicking major ass in your SMP. After completing the SMP then apply to DO schools predominantly and if you score really well on your mcat (515+) and maintain at least near straight A's you could potentially convince lower tier MD schools (in my opinion).

@Goro could definitely give more accurate advice.

 

[zminer123]

You can 100% turn this around, it will take time, and effort and then when you apply you make sure to highlight how you grew and learned from your mistakes (in reference to your SMP performance). If you can get accepted again into the SMP that would be ideal, and once there you need to kick ass and I mean kick ass. Your GPA was not bad at all for DO schools, and your MCAT was very competitive for many DO schools. Now all you need to do is show that you've overcome your mental health issues and you are able to excel in medical school - and you do that by again kicking major ass in your SMP. After completing the SMP then apply to DO schools predominantly and if you score really well on your mcat (515+) and maintain at least near straight A's you could potentially convince lower tier MD schools (in my opinion).

@Goro could definitely give more accurate advice.

Thank you for the advice so far.... Just to be clear, you would suggest applying to the SAME program as before over a different one, correct? DMU offers an MSA (which is the one I worked towards) as well as an MSBS. I would prefer to just do the MSA again, and do VERY well. I truly believe I solved my problems, and all I need is the chance to prove it.

 

[GypsyHummus]

I think he means same SMP.

Though I would look at schools that offer a gaurenteed acceptance at the end of the SMP. Schools that offer this are LECOM and VCOM.

Thank you for the advice so far.... Just to be clear, you would suggest applying to the SAME program as before over a different one, correct? DMU offers an MSA (which is the one I worked towards) as well as an MSBS. I would prefer to just do the MSA again, and do VERY well. I truly believe I solved my problems, and all I need is the chance to prove it.

 

[Goro]

You can 100% turn this around, it will take time, and effort and then when you apply you make sure to highlight how you grew and learned from your mistakes (in reference to your SMP performance). If you can get accepted again into the SMP that would be ideal, and once there you need to kick ass and I mean kick ass. Your GPA was not bad at all for DO schools, and your MCAT was very competitive for many DO schools. Now all you need to do is show that you've overcome your mental health issues and you are able to excel in medical school - and you do that by again kicking major ass in your SMP. After completing the SMP then apply to DO schools predominantly and if you score really well on your mcat (515+) and maintain at least near straight A's you could potentially convince lower tier MD schools (in my opinion).

@Goro could definitely give more accurate advice.

Agree 100%. OP needs to show that s/he can handle med school. Aceing a post-bac or SMP will do that.

 

[zminer123]

I think he means same SMP.

Though I would look at schools that offer a gaurenteed acceptance at the end of the SMP. Schools that offer this are LECOM and VCOM.

So I see two possible routes forward. Which do you think is preferable?
1.) Attempt reapplication into the MSA program at DMU (The program from which I was dismissed).
2.) Attempt an SMP at VCOM or LECOM.

Either way I obviously need to get top of the line grades and prove my academic abilities.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Does the DMU MS offer a guaranteed acceptance? If so, that is where I would focus my effort. If not, id look into VCOM, i have heard excellent things about their post bacc program.

So I see two possible routes forward. Which do you think is preferable?
1.) Attempt reapplication into the MSA program at DMU (The program from which I was dismissed).
2.) Attempt an SMP at VCOM or LECOM.

Either way I obviously need to get top of the line grades and prove my academic abilities.

 

[zminer123]

Does the DMU MS offer a guaranteed acceptance? If so, that is where I would focus my effort. If not, id look into VCOM, i have heard excellent things about their post bacc program.

They do not offer a guaranteed acceptance.... If I apply to VCOM, is it going to be nearly impossible due to my dismissal?

 

[GypsyHummus]

Only one way to find out!

They do not offer a guaranteed acceptance.... If I apply to VCOM, is it going to be really impossible due to my dismissal?

 

[zminer123]

Only one way to find out!

Thanks again for the help. I will likely work on applying tonight. Any tips on how to discuss my dismissal? I am passionate about medicine and I plan on retaking the MCAT. I believe everything BESIDES my dismissal is strong enough for an SMP, but I still would appreciate any tips.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Show humility and be thankful for the opportunities you were given, its very attractive.

I would also prepare yourself for a plan B in case worse comes to worse. DMU has a podiatry school, no? Call up admissions and ask about your situation and see if they will take a chance on you. Would you rather be a DPM who can practice medicine on the foot and ankle, or a failed SMP student with 50K+ in non bankrupt-able debt having to work in a Bio lab for 15$/hour?

Podiatry humbles people real quick.

Thanks again for the help. I will likely work on applying tonight. Any tips on how to discuss my dismissal? I am passionate about medicine and I plan on retaking the MCAT. I believe everything BESIDES my dismissal is strong enough for an SMP, but I still would appreciate any tips.

 

[DubbiDoctor]

Show humility and be thankful for the opportunities you were given, its very attractive.

I would also prepare yourself for a plan B in case worse comes to worse. DMU has a podiatry school, no? Call up admissions and ask about your situation and see if they will take a chance on you. Would you rather be a DPM who can practice medicine on the foot and ankle, or a failed SMP student with 50K+ in non bankrupt-able debt having to work in a Bio lab for 15$/hour?

Podiatry humbles people real quick.

I think it's a bit early to be inquiring about podiatry. OP obviously wants to be a regular physician, and would regret pursuing a different career before exhausting all options for getting into an MD/DO program. The advice given in this thread is correct: to only way to possible salvage a failed SMP is by acing a second one, a reasonable amount of time after failing the first.

 

[GypsyHummus]

OP kinda did exhaust the options/back door into medical school. There is a reason that the ADCOMs on here call an SMP high risk high reward. OP got a taste of the high risk part. Not all business ventures end up in success, sometimes you gotta take the loss and move on to the next business idea.

For what its worth, If I was in OPs position, I would try again at an SMP. You have to keep in mind though that SMPs have gone up crazy in popularity since AACOMAS pulled the rug under grade retakers. There is no guarantee that an SMP will say "yes". What happens if DMU says "no"? Or VCOM? I guess you can go back and take undergrad classes or get a 2nd degree, but that SMP failure shows up forever.

Its too bad OP didnt apply to like 20 schools, s/he prolly would have gotten in somewhere, a 33 is super solid.

I think it's a bit early to be inquiring about podiatry. OP obviously wants to be a regular physician, and would regret pursuing a different career before exhausting all options for getting into an MD/DO program. The advice given in this thread is correct: to only way to possible salvage a failed SMP is by acing a second one, a reasonable amount of time after failing the first.

 

[Robin-jay]

I don't understand how you could get a 508 MCAT but struggle with an anatomy masters degree, where many are notorious for wanting students to score 3.5+ GPA.

Unless the anatomy masters was an SMP directly linked to a medical school?

 

[GypsyHummus]

If its medical school level, I can deff understand. There is really no way to prep for med school with the amount of workload, unless its an SMP.

I don't understand how you could get a 508 MCAT but struggle with an anatomy masters degree, where many are notorious for wanting students to score 3.5+ GPA.

Unless the anatomy masters was an SMP directly linked to a medical school?

 

[zminer123]

I don't understand how you could get a 508 MCAT but struggle with an anatomy masters degree, where many are notorious for wanting students to score 3.5+ GPA.

Unless the anatomy masters was an SMP directly linked to a medical school?

Two reasons.
1.) It was the exact same anatomy classes that the DO students take. The required GPA was a 3.25. In other words it WAS an SMP directly related to medical school. It was at DMU.
2.) I am not stupid by any means, but my intelligence shows through more easily in conceptual and logic-based scenarios... Anatomy is not always conceptual, and it certainly isn't always logic-based. While certainly SOME of it came naturally, some of it was pure memorization. It makes perfect sense that I would do well on the MCAT but not as well on rote memorization classes. That also explains why I was likely going to get a B+ or higher in physiology. (Unfortunately because it was an ANATOMY degree, the physiology grade wouldn't have affected the core gpa requirement anyways).

 

[Robin-jay]

If its medical school level, I can deff understand. There is really no way to prep for med school with the amount of workload, unless its an SMP.

Two reasons.
1.) It was the exact same anatomy classes that the DO students take. The required GPA was a 3.25. In other words it WAS an SMP directly related to medical school. It was at DMU.
2.) I am not stupid by any means, but my intelligence shows through more easily in conceptual and logic-based scenarios... Anatomy is not always conceptual, and it certainly isn't always logic-based. While certainly SOME of it came naturally, some of it was pure memorization. It makes perfect sense that I would do well on the MCAT but not as well on rote memorization classes. That also explains why I was likely going to get a B+ or higher in physiology. (Unfortunately because it was an ANATOMY degree, the physiology grade wouldn't have affected the core gpa requirement anyways).

OP would have been better off by applying broadly to DO schools (25+) rather than taking an SMP with your stats.

However, now that you were forced to leave an SMP, I guess the only way to redeem yourself seems to be to take a new one.

 

[GypsyHummus]

After re-reading OP's initial response, it sounds like they wanted to boot you even though you had a great upward trend in your study habits. I doubt they will let you back in, but it doesnt hurt to try.

Im not gonna lie, the situation doesnt look good. Even Ross, a Caribbean school, gave you a no go. Why would another SMP take a chance on you? This isnt saying that you cant do it, but serious questions on wether or not you can do it. Its also been a year since you have been out, how much knowlage degradation has happened?

I dont mean to be bleak, but the more I read the originally post, the more uphill the battle looks. Doesnt mean you cant do it but man, the first SMP was a bad move. The only way I see you getting into a MD or DO school is through a linked SMP. I would reach out to VCOM and LECOM.

Good Luck. I hope you make it.

 

[zminer123]

After re-reading OP's initial response, it sounds like they wanted to boot you even though you had a great upward trend in your study habits. I doubt they will let you back in, but it doesnt hurt to try.

Im not gonna lie, the situation doesnt look good. Even Ross, a Caribbean school, gave you a no go. Why would another SMP take a chance on you? This isnt saying that you cant do it, but serious questions on wether or not you can do it. Its also been a year since you have been out, how much knowlage degradation has happened?

I dont mean to be bleak, but the more I read the originally post, the more uphill the battle looks. Doesnt mean you cant do it but man, the first SMP was a bad move. The only way I see you getting into a MD or DO school is through a linked SMP. I would reach out to VCOM and LECOM.

Good Luck. I hope you make it.

Thanks for that... I still don't really understand why Ross isn't willing to give me a chance honestly. Do you think going back and scoring an insanely high MCAT score would help me with any of this? I barely prepped at all for my 508 and I really think I can do better.

 

[GypsyHummus]

How insanely high we talking about? 515? No.

508 is a fine score for DO school, but not out of the ordinary. If you come back to the table with a 520, that would catch some ADCOM’s eyes on the DO side of things. People don’t stroll up with a 520 to DO schools, that’s Ivy League level. It would even illicit the attention of MD schools.

I think it would help out your predicament. It would essentially be such a good score, DO schools would have to at least take a look at the application. I would also imagine lower tiered DO programs would like to showcase a 520+. Lots can be forgiven with a high MCAT.

What are your thoughts about Podiatry? You could prolly get into a program since your MCAT is stellar for them. You still get to be a physcician, albeit a surgeon of the foot and ankle. DMU has a really good Pod program.

Thanks for that... I still don't really understand why Ross isn't willing to give me a chance honestly. Do you think going back and scoring an insanely high MCAT score would help me with any of this? I barely prepped at all for my 508 and I really think I can do better.

 

[traveler2947]

Podiatry is an excellent option that many don't consider... Of course, there's less than 10 podiatry schools in the country, so it's not surprising it isn't well known. Look into shadowing a podiatrist to see what a day is like for them. I've met some podiatry students and it seems like a great specialty.

 

[candbgirl]

I keep reading the OP and I think I understand what happened and I think the OP is sharing everything but then I reach the part about Ross saying No. And I start rereading because there must be something I’m missing. With your original scores I’d think Ross would jump to take you despite the fact you failed the SMP. It’s really strange. I’m not advocating for Caribbean but have you talked further with them?

 

[Robin-jay]

After re-reading OP's initial response, it sounds like they wanted to boot you even though you had a great upward trend in your study habits. I doubt they will let you back in, but it doesnt hurt to try.

Im not gonna lie, the situation doesnt look good. Even Ross, a Caribbean school, gave you a no go. Why would another SMP take a chance on you? This isnt saying that you cant do it, but serious questions on wether or not you can do it. Its also been a year since you have been out, how much knowlage degradation has happened?

I dont mean to be bleak, but the more I read the originally post, the more uphill the battle looks. Doesnt mean you cant do it but man, the first SMP was a bad move. The only way I see you getting into a MD or DO school is through a linked SMP. I would reach out to VCOM and LECOM.

Good Luck. I hope you make it.

How insanely high we talking about? 515? No.

508 is a fine score for DO school, but not out of the ordinary. If you come back to the table with a 520, that would catch some ADCOM’s eyes on the DO side of things. People don’t stroll up with a 520 to DO schools, that’s Ivy League level. It would even illicit the attention of MD schools.

I think it would help out your predicament. It would essentially be such a good score, DO schools would have to at least take a look at the application. I would also imagine lower tiered DO programs would like to showcase a 520+. Lots can be forgiven with a high MCAT.

What are your thoughts about Podiatry? You could prolly get into a program since your MCAT is stellar for them. You still get to be a physcician, albeit a surgeon of the foot and ankle. DMU has a really good Pod program.

Gypsy's advice is pretty solid. I want to elaborate on a couple things.

1. Getting back into an SMP after failing out does happen for some students. Goro's medical school accepts students that have taken an SMP after they failed/incompleted the first one. How likely you are to be accepted to a second one, or how likely doing well would in a second one would lead to a medical acceptance is an unknown probability, but it apparently happens.

2. A 520 is a million times easier said than done. Gypsy is right that an Ivy League level MCAT (516+) would help tremendously, but that's a tough one.

3. I feel like the OP is hiding something. Carribean schools usually don't just turn away applicants with a 508 MCAT and 3.0+ GPA. Something doesn't seem to add up in my opinion....