Applying to two fellowship programs at same place?

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Gollap234

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Is that frowned upon?

For example applying to cyto + general surg
Or, GU + general surg.

Have had different opinions about this...

Thanks.

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Probably depends on the exact fellowships and the personalities involved. Could be ok, but could definitely bite ya in the rear.
 
Probably a mistake if it is for the same academic year unless you have a pretty good explanation.

However, lots of people do more than 1 at the same place once they are "in the system"
 
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I think you'll continue to get different opinions about it. Depends on how you and they handle it -- I can envision scenarios where it's a non-issue or even to your benefit, and I can envision scenarios in which it ain't pretty.

I don't think it's universally frowned upon, nor that there's some unwritten rule that you should avoid doing so. However, some applicants sell themselves as all-in for X, so if they find out otherwise it won't look good. On the program side, some fellowship directors are pretty sure that anyone who would consider doing anything other than their specialty is an idiot, or they (like applicants) want to lock someone in and that becomes more difficult if they're not only competing with other programs in their field, but other subspecialties altogether. On the other hand, some places put their department ahead of their subspecialty, in the sense that while there may be some "friendly" competition for fellows it's OK since they're cool enough to want to be at the same institution anyway. Sometimes that competition works in the applicant's favor. One could go on and on.

Personally, I think the best way to avoid a problem is to keep everyone in the loop, at least those at the same institution. Not every fellowship director will be -happy- about it, but I think that avoids someone getting outright -pissed off- by holding out on them when they find out anyway, and helps to keep the door open in case you want to do the "other" fellowship the following year. I think potential problems are mitigated even further when you're talking about a somewhat generalist fellowship (cyto, surg) on the one hand, and something more niche like neuro, GI, GU, etc. on the other.
 
Simple. Tell them you are interested in completing two fellowships. Start the first (hopefully you could get the spot for the more desired fellowship), get a job, then tell them your plans have changed.
 
Is that frowned upon?

For example applying to cyto + general surg
Or, GU + general surg.

Have had different opinions about this...

Thanks.

Why would you apply to two fellowships at a time? That makes it seem like you're doing a fellowship just to do one.
 
Perhaps for one or some of the same reasons many, many residents I knew did so. In some cases it was an attempt to stay in a certain geographical area, in some cases it was an attempt to associate with a particular institution, in some cases it was a lack of certainty regarding what they wanted to do so applied in more than one area, and in a lot of cases there was a lack of certainty as to whether they would get a fellowship at all so applied to something general or a fallback. I think the latter is still a fear for some residents, but probably the least realistic -- fellowship opportunities on the whole are a dime a dozen, although the "good" ones take a little more work to get into the year you want to get into them. Derm I guess is more difficult since you're competing with dermatology types. I don't recall anyone who did one "just to do one", but maybe that's a matter of perception -- what one person sees as doing a fellowship to improve competence and confidence, or to theoretically improve their long-term career opportunities even though they had a job offer prior to fellowship, is another person's "just to do one"?

Unless someone is independently wealthy or really quite strange, residents doing a fellowship for my version of "just to do one" just doesn't seem to occur. That doesn't mean I think everyone who does one actually needs to, or is going to get out of it what they hope to, though.
 
Perhaps for one or some of the same reasons many, many residents I knew did so. In some cases it was an attempt to stay in a certain geographical area, in some cases it was an attempt to associate with a particular institution, in some cases it was a lack of certainty regarding what they wanted to do so applied in more than one area, and in a lot of cases there was a lack of certainty as to whether they would get a fellowship at all so applied to something general or a fallback. I think the latter is still a fear for some residents, but probably the least realistic -- fellowship opportunities on the whole are a dime a dozen, although the "good" ones take a little more work to get into the year you want to get into them. Derm I guess is more difficult since you're competing with dermatology types. I don't recall anyone who did one "just to do one", but maybe that's a matter of perception -- what one person sees as doing a fellowship to improve competence and confidence, or to theoretically improve their long-term career opportunities even though they had a job offer prior to fellowship, is another person's "just to do one"?

Unless someone is independently wealthy or really quite strange, residents doing a fellowship for my version of "just to do one" just doesn't seem to occur. That doesn't mean I think everyone who does one actually needs to, or is going to get out of it what they hope to, though.


What I'm trying to say is that one should have a defined career track and pursue it balls to the wall. Make a choice and go all out.
 
I can dig that. It can make one look uncertain or wishy-washy or whatever, but I don't think that's universal. I do think fellowship directors will generally appreciate careful honesty about it (doesn't mean you have to say something outright dumb), focusing on the value of "their" fellowship to what you see as the big picture for you. They might not all agree, but I return to my previous point -- a little professional/career disagreement is better than a lie -> mistrust -> pissing off the wrong person, which can get around particularly in a relatively small profession such as ours.
 
I might end up in a position similar to the OP and I don't think it is because I'm applying to fellowships "just to do one." Although, frankly, the way the job market is now, it seems that most fresh-out-of-training applicants need to have some area of expertise (i.e. fellowship), so I'm sure plenty of residents really are doing a fellowship "just to do one" and I can't really look down on them for that.

I know many fellowship directors would really like applicants to be "balls to the wall" for their particular subspecialty and have a narrow, specific career track all planned out. However, I personally feel like I could be very happy specializing in any one of a number of different areas and a lot of other factors, like geographic considerations, usefulness of the fellowship for getting a job in the practice setting I'd like, etc. are just as significant to me as the choice of specialty itself. I suppose this makes me "wishy-washy" but I can't imagine that I am the only resident who likes more than one subspecialty area quite a bit...I appreciate KCShaw's advice to try and be honest (carefully and tactfully) so that nothing bites you in the butt later.
 
to the original poster, it's your life, do whatever you want. don't expect to come on this forum and get sound advice from numb nuts.
 
i think you mean to say "What the heck do you think is the purpose of this thread or topic?"
What the heck do you think is the purpose of this forum?

i just want to encourage you to pursue your goals. to the op, if you are confused about the right sub-sub-specialty, it's totally ok. apply to both.
 
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