Arabs in Boston?

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[jm03]

Hey I'm from the Boston area and im applying to Dental Schools in Boston for next fall. Are you going to BU?...I actually have a question for you too..when you sign up for the DAT, theres this question "Do you wish to be considered a minority applicant for recruitment purposes?" What should I select, and if I select Yes, will it affect my chances of getting in in any way?

 

[Audio]

Hey I'm from the Boston area and im applying to Dental Schools in Boston for next fall. Are you going to BU?...I actually have a question for you too..when you sign up for the DAT, theres this question "Do you wish to be considered a minority applicant for recruitment purposes?" What should I select, and if I select Yes, will it affect my chances of getting in in any way?

i doubt arabs would be considered minorities for dent application. i say don't make race an issue. just go in as most other applicants and let your marks and experiences speak! Good luck.

 

[Grasshoper]

I don't think arabs are considered minorities.

 

[fightingspirit]

i doubt arabs would be considered minorities for dent application. i say don't make race an issue. just go in as most other applicants and let your marks and experiences speak! Good luck.

i agree...minority seems to be more of a social thing, coupled with the extent of representation in the profession, as opposed to actual population percentage. however, there is some kind of a subtle social stigma that is associated with being arab.

 

[rambo2006]

Arabs are a minority that IS (whether you like it or not; realize it or not ) a minority that is discriminated against. African americans during the civil rights movement used to say "a black man can never get a fair trial" We arabs now say "an arab man CANT get a trial " . regardless of why things are the way they are, the result is that arabs are indeed underprivledged in the workforce and school. I'm an arab american that is born and raised here in the usa and I am reminded every day that I am. Dont even tell me that when I apply for a job with a white american, that they will look at us the same.

 

[rambo2006]

Even though there is all the necessary reason for arabs to be considered minorities...arabs are currently not considered a minority. There are many speculations on why it is that they are not. Some say it is because they are semites. Others say its a ploy to dissolve arabs into western culture...and the speculations go on and on.............who cares what they are....fact is....Arabs are an under-represented goup that has not been given the right of bieng considered a minority.

 

[996tt]

rambo-your future is up to you. your success depends upon your accomplishments/qualifications, not upon your ethnicity. don't feel sorry for yourself-the medical/dental profession is extremely well represented with members of all races/ethnicities. if you are not admitted, it is because of your grades/dat, not because of your race. work hard and good luck.

 

[rambo2006]

rambo-your future is up to you. your success depends upon your accomplishments/qualifications, not upon your ethnicity. don't feel sorry for yourself-the medical/dental profession i extremely well represented with members of all races/ethnicities. if you are not admitted, it is because of your grades/dat, not because of your race. work hard and good luck.

I've been admitted already and I'm not blaming any1 for anything. I was admitted to a school that was on the top of my list.

Success does indeed depend on a person's accomplishments like you said, but descrimination is real and even with good grades, it can hurt you. Whether you feel it or not doesnt represent everyone else's experience. I'm not trying to be theoretical, I'm talking from daily experience. Of all my interviews I had 3 where the interviewer's facial expressions kind of changed when they knew that I was an arab american. They didnt exactly fall off their chair but, I saw it and I felt it. I didnt have to look for it. It was clear.

 

[996tt]

ok rambo-you win-we are all discriminated against-by the way, if that's the case, why were you admitted to your top choice? society doesn't appear to be holding you back.

 

[fightingspirit]

Arabs are a minority that IS (whether you like it or not; realize it or not ) a minority that is discriminated against. African americans during the civil rights movement used to say "a black man can never get a fair trial" We arabs now say "an arab man CANT get a trial " . regardless of why things are the way they are, the result is that arabs are indeed underprivledged in the workforce and school. I'm an arab american that is born and raised here in the usa and I am reminded every day that I am. Dont even tell me that when I apply for a job with a white american, that they will look at us the same.

well, that's why i said that there's a "subtle social stigma".....the ratio of arab professionals to arabs in the U.S is better than that for blacks. there are more arab dental students than there are black students; yet, the number of blacks in the u.s is way larger than that of arabs...this is where the whole minority/affirmative action comes in.

as an arab man myself, i am glad that we dont qualify for affirmative action. that way, when you or i get our DDS, MD, Jd...whatever, people won't say that we're not qualified....there are many qualified minority men and women who get into professional schools on their own merits and yet people still tend to label them as "unqualified" due to the affirmative action. i do think arabs, in general, suffer from discrimination in the U.S and i do realize that this discrimination makes getting things a bit harder; however, we should work hard, even if it means working a bit more and having to constantly prove that we are civilized and not suicide bombers. we will be rewarded somehow.

as far as gettin reminded of it, dont worry, i know exactly what you mean. i have had two people tell me that i "dont belong and never will belong to western society"...."go back to the desert" and other remarks have also blistered my ear before. it is likely that no matter how westernized our clothes, mannerism, lifestyle and personaities get, we will always be viewed differently, at least for the time being. the irish, italians, and jews supposedly went through a lot of s-h-i-t too when they first came here (1890-1910).....don't forget: arabs only came here the day before yesterday, and the actions and behavior of some of our men and women are not the most indearing, if you catch my drift. ...

 

[rambo2006]

ok rambo-you win-we are all discriminated against-by the way, if that's the case, why were you admitted to your top choice? society doesn't appear to be holding you back.

HAHAHA "why was I admitted to my top choice?" you ask. I never said everyone descriminates. I never said descrimination slams the doors of oppertunity shut. I said it has an affect. For some, it could be the hair that breaks the camal's back. Depending on how qualified one is the affect of descrimination could mean very little.

 

[rambo2006]

well, that's why i said that there's a "subtle social stigma".....the ratio of arab professionals to arabs in the U.S is better than that for blacks. there are more arab dental students than there are black students; yet, the number of blacks in the u.s is way larger than that of arabs...this is where the whole minority/affirmative action comes in.

as an arab man myself, i am glad that we dont qualify for affirmative action. that way, when you or i get our DDS, MD, Jd...whatever, people won't say that we're not qualified....there are many qualified minority men and women who get into professional schools on their own merits and yet people still tend to label them as "unqualified" due to the affirmative action. i do think arabs, in general, suffer from discrimination in the U.S and i do realize that this discrimination makes getting things a bit harder; however, we should work hard, even if it means working a bit more and having to constantly prove that we are civilized and not suicide bombers. we will be rewarded somehow.

as far as gettin reminded of it, dont worry, i know exactly what you mean. i have had two people tell me that i "dont belong and never will belong to western society"...."go back to the desert" and other remarks have also blistered my ear before. it is likely that no matter how westernized our clothes, mannerism, lifestyle and personaities get, we will always be viewed differently, at least for the time being. the irish, italians, and jews supposedly went through a lot of s-h-i-t too when they first came here (1890-1910).....don't forget: arabs only came here the day before yesterday, and the actions and behavior of some of our men and women are not the most indearing, if you catch my drift. ...

You make a strong arguement for not wanting to arabs to be a minority due to the crap they face after they graduate. I totally see that as a legit arguement, but I still believe that arabs need a fair shot " not affirmative action, but a fair shot when it comes to getting it to D-school" Beyond that, I could not agree more with you.

 

[996tt]

fightinspirit-i mostly agree with you. i am an md/internist/intensivist and have practiced for a while. i can tell you that many of my colleagues are arabs (i am not), and i can tell you that it is my experience that in the northeast, that arab physicians are not discriminated against. many chiefs of depts are arabs. i am sure that some less educated people discriminate against all sorts of ethnicities, but i have not seen/heard that type of activity from physicians. i agree with you-get into the profession because of your qualifications, not because of special programs.

 

[996tt]

HAHAHA "why was I admitted to my top choice?" you ask. I never said everyone descriminates. I never said descrimination slams the doors of oppertunity shut. I said it has an affect. For some, it could be the hair that breaks the camal's back. Depending on how qualified one is the affect of descrimination could mean very little.

that is my point rambo-i am not saying that there is no discrimination against various ethnicities from groups of people-i am saying that in medicine/dentistry, you gain acceptance because of your qualifications, not because of your ethnicities. since you are qualified, you have been accepted. isn't that the way you want to be recognized-not because you are an arab and have been admitted only because you were a member of a special program to get arabs into dentistry?

 

[DelAGator]

that is my point rambo-i am not saying that there is no discrimination against various ethnicities from groups of people-i am saying that in medicine/dentistry, you gain acceptance because of your qualifications, not because of your ethnicities. since you are qualified, you have been accepted. isn't that the way you want to be recognized-not because you are an arab and have been admitted only because you were a member of a special program to get arabs into dentistry?

Although Arabs are really minorities, they are not considered disadvantaged minorities. Like asians, indians and filipinos-most arab families dont have the same historical disadvantages as african americans and hispanics that has prevented generations from achieving financial success.

 

[fightingspirit]

that is my point rambo-i am not saying that there is no discrimination against various ethnicities from groups of people-i am saying that in medicine/dentistry, you gain acceptance because of your qualifications, not because of your ethnicities. since you are qualified, you have been accepted. isn't that the way you want to be recognized-not because you are an arab and have been admitted only because you were a member of a special program to get arabs into dentistry?

beautiful post 👍

 

[rambo2006]

that is my point rambo-i am not saying that there is no discrimination against various ethnicities from groups of people-i am saying that in medicine/dentistry, you gain acceptance because of your qualifications, not because of your ethnicities. since you are qualified, you have been accepted. isn't that the way you want to be recognized-not because you are an arab and have been admitted only because you were a member of a special program to get arabs into dentistry?

I believe that we are at the point of discussion where the cup is half empty or half full. I would not feel very proud of my accomplishments knowing that I was admitted via a special program. I dont think that arabs should be given a specal program. What I do believe is that there is work yet to be done when it comes to leveling the playing field and making it fair for arabs. Maybe ethnicity shouldnt be mentioned on application and that way it cant be used against you or for you. As for the personal interview, I think that what can be done is that the interviewer not mention to other adcoms what the ethnicity of the applicant is.

 

[headsup]

Hello everyone...
Ramboo
I dont think you can compare Arabs with Blacks in anyway, just base on one sentece...
the extent of hardship and injustice that African Americans went through is nothing compared to what you experience everyday.
And also, about the minority issue....
Blacks weren't considered minority when they were being treated the way they were at the time... they became minority after officially[by law] slavery and discremination was ended [and I am saying officially, I know that there exist racist views still, but that is in social content]
So I guess Arabs need to wait for years, if they want to be considered minority.
which I doubt would happen, since the Arab families in the US are nothing sompared to Blacks or Hispanics. economically. Isn't it true that most of the Arabs who reside in US [most] are from the wealthiest families of their own countries, who had the money and oppurtunity to come to US, unlike African Americans that were brought here, or Hispanics that cross the borders due to poverty...

Regards

 

[fightingspirit]

Isn't it true that most of the Arabs who reside in US [most] are from the wealthiest families of their own countries, who had the money and oppurtunity to come to US...

Regards

i agree with your post entirely. even when you go to arab ghettos in dearborn or brooklyn, it's not as bad as black and hispanic enclaves. at least arab ghettos are not plagued by HIV, teen pregnancy and single-mom-families. sure they have other troubles but not as bad....

as far as your comment regarding arabs who come here, well, i would agree that about half of them hail from the upper echelons of their original countries but then the other half is the lowest of the low: think of the iraqi southern shiites who were brought to the u.s in the aftermath of the gulf war (their uprising brought saddam's wrath, which prompted america to bring those shiites as refugees from the arabian desert). they founded the Dearborn, michigan ghettos, where english is hardly spoken and where the mentality tends to be more backward than that in baghdad itself. in fact, many of those were, and still are for the most part, litterally uncivilized (socially and intellectualy). the second generation can barely read english. also think of egyptian and morrocan illegal immigrants; most of them are also from the lowest of the low in their respective countries.

 

[rambo2006]

i agree with your post entirely. even when you go to arab ghettos in dearborn or brooklyn, it's not as bad as black and hispanic enclaves. at least arab ghettos are not plagued by HIV, teen pregnancy and single-mom-families. sure they have other troubles but not as bad....

as far as your comment regarding arabs who come here, well, i would agree that about half of them hail from the upper echelons of their original countries but then the other half is the lowest of the low: think of the iraqi southern shiites who were brought to the u.s in the aftermath of the gulf war (their uprising brought saddam's wrath, which prompted america to bring those shiites as refugees from the arabian desert). they founded the Dearborn, michigan ghettos, where english is hardly spoken and where the mentality tends to be more backward than that in baghdad itself. in fact, many of those were, and still are for the most part, litterally uncivilized (socially and intellectualy). the second generation can barely read english. also think of egyptian and morrocan illegal immigrants; most of them are also from the lowest of the low in their respective countries.

I agree with fightingspirit

 

[DMD_2009]

Any Arabs going to Tufts?

 

[jm03]

whoa guys calm down i just asked a simple question. Rambo there was no need to say what you said. Anyway, I ended up emailing a Doctor on the Admissions Committee at Harvard, and he replied that although we are looked at as a minority in ethnic aspects, it would be disconstrued as dishonest to put ourselves as a minority on an application. In the end, you get in because of your GPA, experience, and application, not because you selected minority, so thanks guys for the replies. I thought that because I wasn't born in the States, that I should select "minority" but thanks for clearing up it.

 

[issa]

what about howard and meharry dental schools? they accept mostly minorities. i been in usa just 8 years and i think i am a minority.