Are acceptances for minorities really that skewed?

[Copernicium]

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See what you started OP? You see @buymecookies ? I predict this thread will get to 7+ pages before people start getting tired of beating this dead horse 🙄

 

[Wilf]

Ok this really made me laugh!

Do you have any clinical experience beyond watching ER? Medicine is all about team work and communication. That kind of attitude is why a surgeon accidentally amputates the wrong foot or no one corrects the doctor giving an antibiotic a patient is allergic to. You are in for a rude awakening IF you ever become a doctor.

What was that you said about reading comprehension?
I am a resident.

 

[Lucca]

And maybe it is because they are naturally less gifted at math - and they lose the ability to follow along in the ever-increasingly difficult lectures? Even if it's unfair, that doesn't mean it's not true.

False and there is no data to backup your claim. Females get better grades across the board than males in their respective fields.

 

[Rhino1000]

And they are just naturally better at cleaning. Oh please

Look up men vs women differences in IQ, and mathematical ability, and I will look up men vs. women differences in cleaning ability. You will find that where I have actual facts to back my statement up, you are being demeaning presumably because of ignorance.

Edit:

False and there is no data to backup your claim. Females get better grades across the board than males in their respective fields.

You too, Lucca. I am disappointed that you made the rash claim that I have no evidence or studies to back this up. Much research has been done on the subject.

And grades =/= understanding/aptitude. That's ridiculous. You should know that in middle school, even in high school, homework is a huge portion of the grade you receive. The amount of homework you do is not a better indicator of your understanding/ability than tests.

Also, my cousin had a 4.2 GPA in high school. My brother had a 3.0 GPA in high school. They took almost all of the same classes. My cousin scored a 23 or 24 on the ACT, whereas my brother scored a 32. Is my cousin (who happens to be a girl) better at math than my brother? She did indeed get the better grade.

 

[DermViser]

Very unfortunate. "Being a team player" should have very little importance for being a doctor. If the medical field continues to allow physicians to be stripped of their autonomy and status as head of the medical team, the field will no longer attract the brightest and most talented people. It's a scary thought.

If you're not a "team player" you will flounder if not fail on your clinical rotations and you will fail out of residency guaranteed. If you think medicine as it is practiced today, is solitary in nature, you need to choose another profession.

Edit: There are few specialties which this is the case: Pathology, etc. as even Radiology requires interpersonal skills.

 

[mexdoc91]

Haha maybe that's what people infer from the stated goals but it's not the intention. The policy acknowledges the fact that many (not all) minority patients are distrustful of white people and prefer doctors of color that may be able to relate to their culture. If you spoke Spanish wouldn't you prefer a doctor that understands you? But it doesn't just benefit patients of color. I think it benefits society when you have more examples of minorities in respectable positions in societies. Many people aren't exposed to minorities beyond positions of labor. Wouldn't you want your kids to grow up in a world where the only black person they know is the nanny?

I'm not saying I support race based admissions, I'm just saying it's not so black and white and i support the overall end result.

Why don't people cry so much about legacy admissions? There was actually an article about it in the times today. You know why? You can't point a finger and see who is obviously a legacy admit - and legacy admissions make money.

Agree with this 100%.

 

[MDforMee]

This thread is degenerating faster than I thought.

Again, people incapable of maturely discussing serious issues show their true colors.

 

[mexdoc91]

Rofl @DermViser. Either you're lying about being a resident or you're by far the most immature MD I've met on this forum. Talk about getting their panties in a wad.

A lion does not concern himself with the opinion of the sheep my hysterical friend, but please, please continue!

+1


Speaking of self-perpetuating... Your idea of hurting group A to help group B does wonders to perpetuate racial hatred. Very socialistic.
- - - - - - - - - - - - -
So, let me get this straight.

You guys want to discriminate against certain races until the physician demography matches the public demography (e.g. if 10% of Americans are black we make 10% of physicians black).

Not only this, but we are doing this so that blacks go to black doctors, Whites go to White doctors, Asians go to Asian doctors, all because, of course, same-race physicians "have been shown" to provide better care.

This sounds like a great step forward for the American culture. Perhaps, we could make black-only buses and white-only restaurants, because, of course (studies have shown!!!1111), whites would rather be served by white waiters and blacks are more likely to trust a black person (bus driver) with their life than a white guy.

It's funny... You guys claim to want to eliminate racial discrimination and promote equality, yet, ironically your actions all point toward the opposite.

You seem to be completely missing the point.

Minorities need to be accepted into medical schools and not just medical schools, every professional school/graduate school. Like it or not, some patients feel more comfortable with doctors of their same racial background. I would be able to connect on a more personal level with Latino patients because I myself am Latino and I can speak Spanish. Does that mean I am a better physician than my white colleague? No, it doesn't. I can just connect with the patient better and the patient feels more comfortable.

The majority of you are equating Racism with preference. They are two completely different things.

 

[Womb Raider]

False and there is no data to backup your claim. Females get better grades across the board than males in their respective fields.

Why does UTSW (Texas' #1 medical school) give female applicants extra points if they score <10 in the science sections of the MCAT?

 

[MDforMee]

You seem to be completely missing the point.

Minorities need to be accepted into medical schools and not just medical schools, every professional school/graduate school. Like it or not, some patients feel more comfortable with doctors of their same racial background. I would be able to connect on a more personal level with Latino patients because I myself am Latino and I can speak Spanish. Does that mean I am a better physician than my white colleague? No, it doesn't. I can just connect with the patient better and the patient feels more comfortable.

The majority of you are equating Racism with preference. They are two completely different things.

You've got to think in the future tense. Listen to what I'm saying.

When someone who didn't deserve to be admitted to medical school is sued for gross negligence/malpractice because of a preventable medication error or something, is this racial defense what they should use in court?

"Well, the patient felt more comfortable with a same-colored incompetent doc, so let's just let this case slide?"

Here's the thrust of the hippocratic oath, FYI:
"I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone."

Ability and judgement don't automatically present themselves at your white coat ceremony.

 

[deleted480308]

You seem to be completely missing the point.

Minorities need to be accepted into medical schools and not just medical schools, every professional school/graduate school. Like it or not, some patients feel more comfortable with doctors of their same racial background. I would be able to connect on a more personal level with Latino patients because I myself am Latino and I can speak Spanish. Does that mean I am a better physician than my white colleague? No, it doesn't. I can just connect with the patient better and the patient feels more comfortable.

The majority of you are equating Racism with preference. They are two completely different things.

If a mortgage broker in vermont prefers to hire white clerks because "their clients would prefer them" they are a racist bigot and get charged with discrimination......but if a med school discriminates solely based on race and perceived racial preference of patients, they are champions of equality? I don't buy it

 

[mexdoc91]

If a mortgage broker in vermont prefers to hire white clerks because "their clients would prefer them" they are a racist bigot and get charged with discrimination......but if a med school discriminates solely based on race and perceived racial preference of patients, they are champions of equality? I don't buy it

Purposely not hiring someone because they are of color is racist. However, trying to increase the diversity of a medical school by admitting and recruiting students of color is not. Why is it so hard to understand?

Also, what is your racial background if you do not mind me asking.

 

[Gifted Hands]

If a mortgage broker in vermont prefers to hire white clerks because "their clients would prefer them" they are a racist bigot and get charged with discrimination......but if a med school discriminates solely based on race and perceived racial preference of patients, they are champions of equality? I don't buy it

You are not comparing like and like. It should be comparing the mortgage broker to a white doctor preferring to only treat white patients. Yeah both are wrong, I agree

 

[Lucca]

Why does UTSW (Texas' #1 medical school) give female applicants extra points if they score <10 in the science sections of the MCAT?

The average female gpa is better than the average male gpa according to national data. Matriculants and applicants alike. Idk about this utsw thing and its unimportant.

 

[DermViser]

Why does UTSW (Texas' #1 medical school) give female applicants extra points if they score <10 in the science sections of the MCAT?

Many would argue Baylor is Texas #1 med school. Are you saying females get extra points if they score BELOW a 10 on a science section? What if they score above a 10?

 

[mexdoc91]

You've got to think in the future tense. Listen to what I'm saying.

When someone who didn't deserve to be admitted to medical school is sued for gross negligence/malpractice because of a preventable medication error or something, is this racial defense what they should use in court?

"Well, the patient felt more comfortable with a same-colored incompetent doc, so let's just let this case slide?"

Here's the thrust of the hippocratic oath, FYI:
"I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone."

Ability and judgement don't automatically present themselves at your white coat ceremony.

When the students enter medical school, it is the institutions responsibility to properly prepare their students. If a student is not adequately prepared to enter the workforce as a competent physician, then the institution has done a huge disservice to the student and to society.

 

[Gifted Hands]

When the students enter medical school, it is the institutions responsibility to properly prepare their students. If a student is not adequately prepared to enter the workforce as a competent physician, then the institution has done a huge disservice to the student and to society.

Don't even bother trying to reason with people that think grades = competence. Thankfully medical schools and society as a whole know better.

Do you ask your doctor their mcat score before you let them do a physical? That's how idiotic you sound.

 

[Lucca]

Many would argue Baylor is Texas #1 med school. Are you saying females get extra points if they score BELOW a 10 on a science section? What if they score above a 10?

I've never heard of this, everyone I know that has been accepted to UTSW is an exceptional student.

 

[deleted480308]

Purposely not hiring someone because they are of color is racist. However, trying to increase the diversity of a medical school by admitting and recruiting students of color is not. Why is it so hard to understand?.

both are making decisions using race as a contributing factor....which is discrimination. It's either ok for racists to be racists and med schools to try and even out the racism in another direction....or racial discrimination is wrong. Any logical person would simply say racial discrimination is wrong

 

[Womb Raider]

The policy acknowledges the fact that many (not all) minority patients are distrustful of white people and prefer doctors of color that may be able to relate to their culture.

Wow! Absolutely amazing how you did that, just like a true politician.

First, you support discriminating against whites and Asians so that minorities can be accepted into medical school, "leveling the playing field" if you will. The rational behind this is: blacks want to go to black doctors, because they connect on a deeper level and hence improve quality of care.

Then, I post, and you reply saying no no no - it's not true that ALL minorities necessarily want to go to a same-race physician, just SOME of them.

????????

Ohhhhh, just some of them? Just like MCAT / GPA is a good way of predicting the success of SOME doctors, but not all of them?

Just like SOME minority physicians won't even end up practicing in the slums and helping their race?

How about the fact that racial hatred/preferences will NEVER go away if you keep supporting decisions to promote this type of behavior.

I'm not saying I support race based admissions, I'm just saying it's not so black and white and i support the overall end result.

So you don't care about ethically questionable actions as long as the end result is what you want?

Minorities need to be accepted into medical schools and not just medical schools, every professional school/graduate school. Like it or not, some patients feel more comfortable with doctors of their same racial background. I would be able to connect on a more personal level with Latino patients because I myself am Latino and I can speak Spanish. Does that mean I am a better physician than my white colleague? No, it doesn't. I can just connect with the patient better and the patient feels more comfortable.

The majority of you are equating Racism with preference. They are two completely different things.

All professional / graduate schools? Why? What about the MBA? I'm sure I would've been a multi-millionaire basketball star if I had more (insert non-black race here) basketball stars to look up to as a kid!

Are we going to start trying to match ALL professional job demographics to the countries'?

In college, I had plenty of professors that didn't speak English as a native tongue and weren't my skin color. I would've learned more and been more successful if I had (insert my race here) professor, should we segregate classes base on race too so that we can learn more efficiently?

 

[Womb Raider]

The average female gpa is better than the average male gpa according to national data. Matriculants and applicants alike. Idk about this utsw thing and its unimportant.

Then why don't males get GPA padding? That's not fair!!!!

Many would argue Baylor is Texas #1 med school. Are you saying females get extra points if they score BELOW a 10 on a science section? What if they score above a 10?

Sure, it depends on your metric. UTSW probably has more research money than all other Texas schools combined, though.

Females get an extra point for both science sections if they score <10. If it's 10 or above, they don't get any extra help.

For all of you that don't believe me, call them up and ask. They'll tell you.

 

[mexdoc91]

You can not be racist to white people. Reverse racism is the biggest lie there is.

 

[MDforMee]

When the students enter medical school, it is the institutions responsibility to properly prepare their students. If a student is not adequately prepared to enter the workforce as a competent physician, then the institution has done a huge disservice to the student and to society.

You need to work towards helping others develop work ethics appropriate for entering the medical profession, and not buy into cop outs.

I hate to break it to you that way, but you sound like you've been led to believe some things that are not quite accurate.

 

[deleted480308]

You can not be racist to white people. Reverse racism is the biggest lie there is.

that's incorrect

 

[dyspareunia]

Purposely not hiring someone because they are of color is racist. However, trying to increase the diversity of a medical school by admitting and recruiting students of color is not. Why is it so hard to understand?

Also, what is your racial background if you do not mind me asking.

You can not be racist to white people. Reverse racism is the biggest lie there is.

lol.

 

[MDforMee]

that's incorrect

Don't bother trying to tell him that he's wrong.

He's giving up a lot of clues to the attitudes that certain groups of people hold about whites, and it's pretty valuable stuff... if you know how to listen.

 

[DermViser]

You can not be racist to white people. Reverse racism is the biggest lie there is.

Um, no. Just...no.

 

[WillburCobb]

 

[geneexpression]

Puerto Rico also has its own schools that take almost entirely Puerto Ricans, so that's probably skewing the numbers s bit. On the mainland, it is quite likely that stats for accepted students are higher.

That's a very good point that I didn't even consider. Darn, I was kind of hoping with low acceptance stats like that for Puerto Ricans, I'd be at a distinct disadvantage with my 3.9+ GPA if I scored well on the MCAT heh. Just being honest.

 

[touchpause13]

And maybe it is because they are naturally less gifted at math - and they lose the ability to follow along in the ever-increasingly difficult lectures? Even if it's unfair, that doesn't mean it's not true.

Right that's why I had a hard time with calculus. My vagina was getting in the way 🙄

 

[touchpause13]

You can not be racist to white people. Reverse racism is the biggest lie there is.

Okay. So what mex is talking about here is that the sociological concept of racism requires the dominant group to be the ones discriminating or being prejudiced towards the group with less power.

So if you want to mince hairs, black folks can only be prejudiced towards white folks, not racist.

 

[WillburCobb]

Right that's why I had a hard time with calculus. My vagina was getting in the way 🙄

Damn labia messin' with those derivatives!

 

[touchpause13]

Then why don't males get GPA padding? That's not fair!!!!



Sure, it depends on your metric. UTSW probably has more research money than all other Texas schools combined, though.

Females get an extra point for both science sections if they score <10. If it's 10 or above, they don't get any extra help.

For all of you that don't believe me, call them up and ask. They'll tell you.

I'm sorry I can't take you seriously. Learn what < means then come back and play with the big dogs.

 

[terp720]

Right that's why I had a hard time with calculus. My vagina was getting in the way 🙄

yeah.. i had to double check that I was a girl given my monstrous* engineering GPA
(*just a little thing I picked up from my friend rifle...)

 

[DermViser]

When someone who didn't deserve to be admitted to medical school is sued for gross negligence/malpractice because of a preventable medication error or something, is this racial defense what they should use in court?

Ability and judgement don't automatically present themselves at your white coat ceremony.

And you judge whether one does based off of MCAT score and undergraduate GPA? Really?

I didn't know now the chances of malpractice lawsuits can be extrapolated from undergraduate GPA and MCAT scores. Tell me can you predict people's chances of staying married too?

 

[geneexpression]

Not that anecdotal evidence counts for much of anything, but as far back in my schooling as I can remember, it always seemed to be females who were at the tops of the math classes I took. I was typically one of them if not the highest performer, but again, that's just my personal experience.

 

[midnight0il]

Right that's why I had a hard time with calculus. My vagina was getting in the way 🙄

I just had a really funny mental picture. Lol. Thanks.

 

[touchpause13]

Idk. Mr. Tp told me he always has a lot of respect for the female engineers he works with because he feels they have had to work harder to get in that position than the average dude has

 

[MDforMee]

And you judge whether one does based off of MCAT score and undergraduate GPA? Really?

I didn't know now the chances of malpractice lawsuits can be extrapolated from undergraduate GPA and MCAT scores. Tell me can you predict people's chances of staying married too?

You lost your credibility with me when you attacked my reasons for helping URMs, sorry.

 

[Gifted Hands]

And you judge whether one does based off of MCAT score and undergraduate GPA? Really?

I didn't know now the chances of malpractice lawsuits can be extrapolated from undergraduate GPA and MCAT scores. Tell me can you predict people's chances of staying married too?

Oh you didn't know? The real truth is that anyone with < 33 on the MCAT doesn't actually graduate from medical school. They just serve mimosas to the big dawgs and do their laundry while they are slamming those books. Oh the conspiracy!

 

[terp720]

You've got to think in the future tense. Listen to what I'm saying.

When someone who didn't deserve to be admitted to medical school is sued for gross negligence/malpractice because of a preventable medication error or something, is this racial defense what they should use in court?

"Well, the patient felt more comfortable with a same-colored incompetent doc, so let's just let this case slide?"

Here's the thrust of the hippocratic oath, FYI:
"I will prescribe regimens for the good of my patients according to my ability and my judgment and never do harm to anyone."

Ability and judgement don't automatically present themselves at your white coat ceremony.

soo someone who didn't deserve to be in medical school still managed to get through medical school, boards, and residency... Explain how getting to that point means they didn't deserve to be in medical school?

 

[Womb Raider]

I'm sorry I can't take you seriously. Learn what < means then come back and play with the big dogs.

???

 

[terp720]

I'm sorry I can't take you seriously. Learn what < means then come back and play with the big dogs.

he actually did mean if they score less than 10 they get added points. if they scored >=10 then they don't.

 

[Gifted Hands]

You lost your credibility with me when you attacked my reasons for helping URMs, sorry.

You don't even make sense anymore. My GPA was less than 3.9 maybe that's why I don't understand anything you say.

 

[touchpause13]

Did no one teach you the pacman trick? Pacman is hungry and wants to eat the biggest number

 

[terp720]

Did no one teach you the pacman trick? Pacman is hungry and wants to eat the biggest number

10 is the bigger number in this scenario tp!!

 

[WillburCobb]

And you judge whether one does based off of MCAT score and undergraduate GPA? Really?

I didn't know now the chances of malpractice lawsuits can be extrapolated from undergraduate GPA and MCAT scores. Tell me can you predict people's chances of staying married too?

If there's one thing the pre-allo forum has taught me, its that ACT + SAT + uGPA + MCAT will provide one with all the information needed to know all the minutiae of one's future.

 

[touchpause13]

10 is the bigger number in this scenario tp!!

I just read your other post. That's a really silly way to do things IMO

 

[Gifted Hands]

I'm shocked this thread is still open... Mods be slackin

 

[touchpause13]

I'm shocked this thread is still open... Mods be slackin

It is Friday. Maybe they are drinking haha