Are bone marrow biopsies required to sit the pathology boards?

[univlad]

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Is one required to perform bone marrow biopsies in order to sit for the pathology boards? I've heard differing opinions on the matter.

My program doesn't require them, but we have the option to perform a few.

 

[beary]

Oh gosh, I hope the answer is no... I HATE bone marrow biopsies.

*considers psych which has no big needles*

 

[yaah]

I don't think they are required for AP/CP boards - just for Heme path boards.

 

[deschutes]

No, not for AP/CP boards.

Thing is, around here we're bugged about keeping our BMB log current for ACGME reviews. I haven't figured out why this is an issue since some places don't even have residents doing bone marrows.

 

[RyMcQ]

I don't think they are required for AP/CP boards - just for Heme path boards.

They are not directly required for either. Here is the requirement for AP/CP boards:

1.Training. The applicant must satisfactorily complete pathology training in a program accredited by the ACGME or the RCPSC as follows:

a. Combined Anatomic Pathology and Clinical Pathology (AP/CP) Certification

Four full years of full-time, approved training in an accredited APCP-4 program that includes at least 18 months of structured training in anatomic pathology and 18 months of structured training in clinical pathology, plus a "flexible year that may be either an additional 12 months of full-time, continued training in anatomic pathology and/or clinical pathology or 12 months of full-time, approved training in other areas of pathology as part of the defined four-year accredited AP/CP training program. Residents must perform a minimum of 50 autopsies, and a list of completed autopsies performed by the resident must be provided at the time of application.

And hematology boards:

Hematology (HEM)

a. For applicants who hold any primary certificate in pathology or have a primary certificate plus a subspecialty certificate in hematology from another member medical specialty board of the ABMS: one full year of additional training in hematology (pathology) in a program accredited for such training by the ACGME.

But program directors are concerned about how many BMB's you are doing because the ACGME requires that they at least are helping residents get experience. I don't know of any specific requirement, other than what an individual institution might require.

By the way, BMBs are pretty fun once you have done a few. They are definitely not as hard as they look.

 

[LADoc00]

As I understand it, you should be able to 10 document bone marrow biopsies that include date, patient age, mrn, diagnosis and dob. This is for both CP and Hemepath boards, meaning if you were AP/CP/Heme BE, you need 20 total, but once again that was I told by program directors who never backed it up with documentation.(similar to classic scene in Rushmore where Max gets put on double secret probation and asks for documentation on it🙂

I have a feeling programs are getting pressured to document this stuff and it has less to do with the individual applicant.

 

[RyMcQ]

As I understand it, you should be able to 10 document bone marrow biopsies that include date, patient age, mrn, diagnosis and dob. This is for both CP and Hemepath boards, meaning if you were AP/CP/Heme BE, you need 20 total, but once again that was I told by program directors who never backed it up with documentation.

I just took heme boards and I didn't have to document jack.

 

[LADoc00]

I just took heme boards and I didn't have to document jack.

When you find out if you pass? I have to do that crap next year, not looking forward to it. Wouldve done it right after my fellowship but had too much going on, oh well.

 

[pathdawg]

Is one required to perform bone marrow biopsies in order to sit for the pathology boards? I've heard differing opinions on the matter.

My program doesn't require them, but we have the option to perform a few.

There are no specific requirements in terms of numbers of bone marrow bxs needed to be eligible to sit for the CP or Hemepath boards, just as there are no specific number of autopsies needed to sit for the AP boards.

 

[deschutes]

Straight-track AP doesn't have to do any autopsies? That's a little odd. I thought Andy posted about doing autopsies 😕

 

[yaah]

Straight-track AP doesn't have to do any autopsies? That's a little odd. I thought Andy posted about doing autopsies 😕

Yes you do. As of now it is 50 but that may go down.

 

[GreatPumpkin]

50 autopsies, 10 can be shared with another resident.

Like was said earlier there is currently stated requirement for bone marrow biopsies. But, with the new requirement for people to start logging proceedures I wouldn't be suprised if in the future there is some minimal number.

I have done about 100. yuck. (pathology does the bone marrows for the entire hospital here, the heme-onc fellows barely even do any) hehe.

 

[pathdawg]

Yes you do. As of now it is 50 but that may go down.

Of course you have to do autopsies to be able to sit for the boards, but that widely belived 50 number is a rumor. If you perform 47 during your training, the ABP will not deny you an oppotunity to cash your $1400 check and torture you with their inane and superfulous board questions.

The reason why residency directors ask residents to keep a log of posts and bone marrow bxs is for accredidation reasons.

 

[RyMcQ]

When you find out if you pass? I have to do that crap next year, not looking forward to it. Wouldve done it right after my fellowship but had too much going on, oh well.

They say that letters go out 4-6 weeks after the test. So if getting results for AP/CP boards is any indication, I'll find out 6 weeks to the day after the test (November 3).

I stressed about the test until I answered the first few questions. My program director (who was on the committee for choosing test questions) said that they made a real effort the past few years to weed out obsolete questions. Sure enough, not one question about LAP scores, PAS stains in ALL, etc.

 

[RyMcQ]

Of course you have to do autopsies to be able to sit for the boards, but that widely belived 50 number is a rumor.

It's a rumor spread by the ABP. In their Requirements for Examination section, they state:

Residents must perform a minimum of 50 autopsies, and a list of completed autopsies performed by the resident must be provided at the time of application.

It's not like the people processing your application get a chunk of that $2200. On the other hand, some pencil pushers would get a great deal of satisfaction by derailing the career of a would-be big shot over a technicality. I personally would not try to find out what would happen if I only did 47 autopsies.