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I go to an unknown state school, would an A effort in Chem or Orgo at my school earn me a B at higher (mid to high-tier) schools?
I go to an unknown state school, would an A effort in Chem or Orgo at my school earn me a B at higher (mid to high-tier) schools?
I'm taking an undergrad class right now at a university that is notoriously difficult (U. Chicago) with a professor that had lackluster reviews and, frankly, I'm thinking people are just a bunch of whiners. The difficulty is roughly comparable to my not-so-prestigious undergrad. Very small sample size, but that's my limited experience.
(sent from my phone - please forgive typos and brevity)
dont really know why its worth worrying about. not like you can change it. do your best and let the chips fall where they may
Speaking as someone currently at a higher-tier UG who previously took classes at a no-name state school: yes, the classes are harder on average. It all depends though on a class-to-class basis.
I've heard it go the other way. Professors at less prestigious universities have more autonomy to teach their class however they want. At higher-tier universities, there is more pressure for the professors to give out better/passing grades.
This kind of theoretical situation has always puzzled me. If you get an A at a easier school, that means that you have mastered the material and risen to the top of that class from that school. For all anybody knows, you could very well rise to the top of that class from ANY school. Who is to say that someone who gets an A at an easy school couldn't also get an A at the most difficult school in the world? I am sure a super genius could get a 4.0 at a CC or a non-respected university, let's say -- but he/she could also get a 4.0 at an Ivy League or any other difficult school. If he/she chose to go to the less difficult school, will he/she automatically be disregarded as not as smart as students from another school? That seems wrong, and would obviously be incorrect in this situation.
Just because someone goes to a lower ranked or tiered school doesn't mean that they automatically wouldn't do as well at a difficult school. Many top students from easier colleges could very possibly be top students at harder schools. There is no way to know. Thus, it is absolutely impossible to say that an A in one place translates to a B in another. That, and it's just not fair.
It's difficult to explain, but does that make sense? Don't discount your efforts or downplay your potential If you shine in an easy university, it is entirely possible that you could have shined in another, harder school.
I go to an unknown state school, would an A effort in Chem or Orgo at my school earn me a B at higher (mid to high-tier) schools?
For those of you who think pre-med classes at state schools are harder than those at upper tier schools, I would love to take orgo at your school and you can come take orgo at Hopkins.
Not going to argue with you, but there should be a distinction between difficulty of a class, and difficulty of getting an A. Grading policy and material/material presentation are two separate things. Schools that are notoriously known for grade deflation don't teach you more than you would learn at a State School, but they do grade harsher. That being said, I would probably be successful at learning the material at Hopkins; but would I get an A? Well.. that's another story.
For those of you who think pre-med classes at state schools are harder than those at upper tier schools, I would love to take orgo at your school and you can come take orgo at Hopkins.
Speaking as someone currently at a higher-tier UG who previously took classes at a no-name state school: yes, the classes are harder on average. It all depends though on a class-to-class basis.
What really matters, imo, is not the difficulty of the class, but the difficulty of the competition. Science classes are graded on a curve. So if your peers are smarter, you will have a more difficult time getting an A. This is completely independent of the rigor of the material and should be fairly obvious to anyone who has ever been in a class with a curve.
The average Ivy league student is smarter than the average state school student, so it would be more difficult to get an A at an Ivy League school than a state school. This is a fact and should be obvious.
Not all schools use curves. Not all curves are set the same way.
"Hard" science classes(ie p.chem, quantum mechanics, 400 level genetics) are irrelevant to this discussion, so I will stick to prerequisites.What (hard) science class isn't curved?
It doesn't matter how curves are set. A curve means your grade is determined relative to everyone else. Thus the caliber of your peers has an appreciable impact on your grade.
"Hard" science classes(ie p.chem, quantum mechanics, 400 level genetics) are irrelevant to this discussion, so I will stick to prerequisites.
Many people on this forum went to schools without curves for their pre-requisites. It is common to find threads with people complaining about this. I have also met people in person whose undergraduate schools did not use curves.
There is not some set percentile ranking that all professors use when deciding how to curve. Some professors will give A's to the top 15% of their class and others will restrict it to the top 5%. The way a professor curves absolutely matters. You seem to have forgotten that not all professors that curve use the same type of curve.
This conversation is pointless. State school kids try to justify their schools and Ivy League kids try to justify their schools. The only thing that matters (and over which either of us have control) is how well we do at our own school.
Just do well wherever you are and life will turn out fine.
I go to an unknown state school, would an A effort in Chem or Orgo at my school earn me a B at higher (mid to high-tier) schools?
Let's be honest here: if you are taking a class like quantum mechanics or mammalian physiology at a school like Cornell, Hopkins, or WashU, you are learning the same material as you would at University of North Dakota or State University of New York, but it will be made much harder at the top tier schools; exams are tricker, professors throw more curveballs and will test you on alot of exceptions to rules in concepts, classes are graded on a curve, so an 89 becomes a B, while a 94 becomes an A-.
I took chemistry at Uchicago and another university and the levels are very different. In Uchicago there were derivations on our tests and no multiple choice, compared to completely multiple choice at my other institution. You covered the material so it was possible but the effort required for an A at chicago would be significantly higher. Also, class started at 830 but the lecturer began at 8 and you were expected to know the information. Just very different cultures, labs were significantly more effort as well.I just finished a course with a professor who has lackluster reviews with students (deemed as a difficult professor). I agree with your sentiment that people are whiny and I really would like to see how Chemistry at U of Chicago differs from my school. Chemistry is an objective course so one of the major differences that I can imagine is how rigorous the teacher grades and curves, but that changes with all schools.
If you get a B at a place like GWU, chances are, it's an A- at a school like Indiana, or William and Mary. Similarly, a C at a school like Cornell, is an A- at Harvard, haha #gobigred
What always kept me wondering is how can one class at one school be more difficult than another class at a more prestigious school. (I am talking about class difficulty, and not grading. Grading can be more difficult if you are in a class where everyone scored above a 2150 on their SAT, if there is a bell curve, or if the professor is an ass). Krebs cycle is Krebs cycle at joe shmoe university, and at Columbia. So are lipids, proteins, and nucleic acids. So is translational motion, and kinetics, and equilibrium. So is DNA replication, transcription, and oxidation-reduction concepts/reactions.
When I asked my Harvard/Princeton/Columbia trained Bio professor at my "joe shmoe" university whether or not Columbia's Biology is more difficult than ours, he laughed. He said that if he taught at Harvard, he would give the same final to those students as he did to us. When he was picking out colleges with his son, they visited a Bio class at Columbia, and he said "So, guess what I saw? The same **** you see everywhere else. Couple of gunners. Couple of sleepers. Couple of kids lost and confused. Bunch of kids on their cell phones. Couple of kids with their heads in their notebooks. etc... Same as everywhere else. They were no different". That kind of made me feel better, and it made me realize that college kids are college kids. There will always be the ones who want to party more than anything, others who won't to copulate on a world-record scale, those who are complete book worms or gunners, and those who have a balance of everything. This is irrespective of whether you go to Columbia and UPenn, or Stony Brook and Fordham.
So in my humble opinion, classes vary more between professors at one school, rather than between schools. Class difficulty is fairly the same everywhere (yes, some schools might challenge you more on average, have different standards/pre-reqs and thus might have more demanding but...) the course material is fairly standardized and the same everywhere.
For those of you who think pre-med classes at state schools are harder than those at upper tier schools, I would love to take orgo at your school and you can come take orgo at Hopkins.
Notice when the professor took his own kid to look at schools, he was visiting Columbia despite probably getting free or reduced tuition at Joe Shmoe. Where did the kid ultimately go? There 's the answer to where the professor really thinks you should take Chemistry to get ahead.
Haha... you picked a horrible example my friend. I went to Columbia undergrad and the Intro Bio professor there is definitely hard. Have a look for yourself:
https://newcourseworks.columbia.edu...IOLC2005_001_2011_3/Exam Resources/exams.html
Why do people post in these threads?
Haha... you picked a horrible example my friend. I went to Columbia undergrad and the Intro Bio professor there is definitely hard. Have a look for yourself:
https://newcourseworks.columbia.edu/access/content/group/BIOLC2005_001_2011_3/Exam%20Resources/exams.html
For those of you who think pre-med classes at state schools are harder than those at upper tier schools, I would love to take orgo at your school and you can come take orgo at Hopkins.
Game on. Orgo is orgo is orgo.
I don't care where you go to school: orgo is naming conventions, functional groups, steric hindrance, memorizing/learning/applying reactions, "pushing" electrons, and bio molecules.
This is just one of "those things." In core pre-med courses, the material that is expected to be covered is the same pretty much everywhere. I'd imagine WUSTL is the only university that devotes significant time to discussing Nobel Laureates from their institution, however.
Every school will have hard and easy classes. Much of this depends on the professor. I've taken courses where you'd be hard pressed to see a more comprehensive treatment of the subject at any top tier university (biology, genetics, molecular biology, biochemistry). I've also taken courses that were obviously dumbed-down in a major way (ie, physics).
From an admissions perspective, I wouldn't worry about it much. Adcoms have a solid understanding of which universities inflate grades, where it's easier to get an 'A', etc. What's more, by definition not everyone has the opportunity to attend a top tier undergraduate institution. What's the saying? Excellence at any institution will be looked upon favorably?
What (hard) science class isn't curved?
It doesn't matter how curves are set. A curve means your grade is determined relative to everyone else. Thus the caliber of your peers has an appreciable impact on your grade.