Are engineers the idiot savant of med schools? :D

[CityDweller]

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There are many brilliant people in medical school and most of them were not engineers/engineering majors. I think the purpose of this thread was to comment on the differences of what you are expected to know in medical school vs. engineering. The basis of engineering is problem solving, and we are trained to think in this manner. I like to figure stuff out on exams by understanding the concepts. When I recieved my first anatomy grade this year I was shocked. I thought I knew everything, all the relations, I understood everything, but that was not enough. So I've changed my study habits in favor of more memorization. Repetition is key! It is just nice to know that there are others 'out there' like me that have had the SAME struggles for the same reason. I also loved physio in college... can't wait till we have it next semester.

 

[OncoCaP]

I guess that's because there are a lot of people like me who use this forum as a proxy for a real social life.

Again, I kid. Sort of.

I remember as an undergrad, I would study with one or two friends, not all the time, but several nights a week. More recently I had to take some pre-med prerequisites, and I had a fun time with the undergrads just socializing between classes. Right now I'm doing biomedical research, and I have to be careful to not let the socializing interfere with my work too much. Don't get me wrong, we get the work done, but we have fun too. I can't imagine being in medical school or in the medical profession with hundreds of people around and not having a ton of social options. Bizarre. I'm used to working long hours, and it seems like people around me were often having fun despite the pressure.

 

[smuwillobrien]

Writers can't write without a good working knowledge of basic spelling and grammer.

I'm guessing you've never heard of Margaret Atwood.

 

[Pemberley]

Ah, OK. Yes, I have been told to expect that -- I guess the idea is to try an learn (memorize) as much of that days material as possible every day and then briefly review previous days to help mitigate the forgetting.

I've been worrying about this, too... my previous education (physics!) involved absolutely no memorization whatsoever. I found last summer's biochemistry class to be unpleasant in that respect, and have a gut feeling that it was nothing at all compared to what I'll get in med school. I'm trying to think of some study strategies to help me get through first year.

Does anybody know of a good flashcard program -- particularly one where you can enter the flashcards on the computer and use them on the palm when you're out and about?

I actually woke up in a blind panic yesterday -- I might start Southwestern in eight months, with all sorts of brilliant biology expertise in my classmates -- and I don't even know what the liver does!

 

[ICCONFETTI]

I'm an engineer --> future doctor (2007). I've heard that the first two years are killer just because it's completely different than what we're used to. I've been trying to get myself in the med school mindset by taking some bio/chem courses..... I really hope it helps!!

How many hours do med school students study per day?

 

[deuist]

Get used to the hardship. I'm a physicist--->engineer--->current M2. My grades tanked the first semester. As you may have gathered from this board, brains don't matter in med school for the first two years. You've got to endlessly study the material until you know every minor detail to perfection. To give you an example: did you ever have to memorize a Shakespearian monologue in high school? Remember how painful it was to learn every line, spit it out during a test, and then forget it a week later? Med school is the same way, except now you're memorizing the whole play. My last exam was three weeks ago. If I were to retake it now without studying, I guarantee you that I'd fail. Study hard and you'll do fine.

About the writing comments: I'm offended by anyone who claims, "I wasn't an English major. I was a ________ major. I don't need to know who to write well." What a crock! In every field from journalism to engineering to even medicine, you need to know how to write. If you're struggling, you had better sign up for a writing class and learn how to form intelligible sentences. You won't believe the number of practicing doctors I meet that can't properly spell "a lot" or don't know the differences between "affect/effect" and "there/their/they're." Seeing their mistakes is an instant turn-off and naturally causes me to question what other errors they're making.

 

[BozoSparky]

Get used to the hardship. I'm a physicist--->engineer--->current M2. My grades tanked the first semester. As you may have gathered from this board, brains don't matter in med school for the first two years. You've got to endlessly study the material until you know every minor detail to perfection. To give you an example: did you ever have to memorize a Shakespearian monologue in high school? Remember how painful it was to learn every line, spit it out during a test, and then forget it a week later? Med school is the same way, except now you're memorizing the whole play. My last exam was three weeks ago. If I were to retake it now without studying, I guarantee you that I'd fail. Study hard and you'll do fine.

About the writing comments: I'm offended by anyone who claims, "I wasn't an English major. I was a ________ major. I don't need to know who to write well." What a crock! In every field from journalism to engineering to even medicine, you need to know how to write. If you're struggling, you had better sign up for a writing class and learn how to form intelligible sentences. You won't believe the number of practicing doctors I meet that can't properly spell "a lot" or don't know the differences between "affect/effect" and "there/their/they're." Seeing their mistakes is an instant turn-off and naturally causes me to question what other errors they're making.

hey, i'm not an engineer, but i was a physical chemist--->current M2. i find the coursework very fascinating...i find memorization painful/boring to say the least. to learn the language of medicine requires memorization...so i'm trying my best to keep a good attitude.

keeping a positive attitude is my only advice.

 

[45408]

I thrived on studying in groups, and asking each other questions. It made the hell of constant studying tolerable.

Then, studying became my only social outlet. Then I graduated from med school. Now I have no life.

I kid. Sort of.

I've been SOL on finding people who want to study in a group. I had several people in undergrad that I studied with relentlessly, but they're all elsewhere now.

 

[lorelei]

Any of you former engineers also former teachers, tutors, or general know-it-alls? I've also run into the problem where I learn the concept of something but don't learn the details because I already understand what's going on. What works really well for this is explaining the concept to somebody else, because you can't do it unless you know the details. (Try explaining how the renal tubule works without knowing which transporters are in which segment.)

I think my school must do an unusually good job at presenting things in a concept-focused way, because I have not had as much trouble with memorization as I was afraid of. Obviously I have to memorize stuff, but it's far from being the be-all and end-all of my studying.

Repetition is definitely key. I like to bring my coursebooks to lecture and try to match up what's going on in the lecture to what's in the book. (Because our lecturers write the coursebooks this is not as difficult as it sounds.) So I get the auditory version, two visual versions (powerpoint and coursebook), and active learning (matching and marking what the lecturer is emphasizing). I can't always manage to do this but when I do, I am surprised at how much I can learn in an hour.

 

[Fannibal]

Hey I am another one of those engineers in med school. I think that whatever strengths I have, I will use, and whatever weaknesses I have, I will try to compensate for. Memorization is definitely something I have to take time to compensate for. I picked this career so there is no turning back. LIke other people have said, we gotta keep a positive attitude! I am not pleased with my grades so far(halfway through second year). Good thing is though, I just had a epidemiology exam(statistics test) where I got a 99th percentile in my class 😀 I guess all that analytical thinking skillz I had from engineering as an undergrad still has some uses here and there.

 

[8744]

Aw hell, the first two years of medical school aren't hard. Now, I'll admit that I didn't exactly cover myself in academic glory during that time but I really didn't work that hard either. In fact, I was something of a slacker. I never failed anything and I usually passed every test by a comfortable but unspectacular margin.

I probably would have done a lot better if I had only studied an hour or two more every day which would have still not required me to work as hard as I did before I went to medical school....as an engineer.

Hey, you have to be a lot smarter to slack your way through an engineering degree (which I could not do) than you do to slack your way through the typical pre-med degree. Non-engineering majors are probably jsut not as used to studying as engineering majors.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

About the writing comments: I'm offended by anyone who claims, "I wasn't an English major. I was a ________ major. I don't need to know who to write well." What a crock! In every field from journalism to engineering to even medicine, you need to know how to write. If you're struggling, you had better sign up for a writing class and learn how to form intelligible sentences. You won't believe the number of practicing doctors I meet that can't properly spell "a lot" or don't know the differences between "affect/effect" and "there/their/they're." Seeing their mistakes is an instant turn-off and naturally causes me to question what other errors they're making.

So agree. Unfortunately, law seems to be the only profession where I haven't seen tons of grammar errors. However, I momentarily think someone's a ***** if they don't know the difference between "you're" and "your" or say lame things like "come talk to Sue or myself if you have questions." 👎

As for the memorization/regurgitation thing, we humanities people have trouble with it as well since our education was generally conceptually based, too. I think the only people really well set up for the straight memorization thing are bio majors.

 

[basupran]

Engineering=the best. For anatomy, try drawing out schematics. Helped me out quite a bit.

 

[Cirrus83]

I thought physiology had more to do with how things would work. Because when I took Anatomy (admittedly undergrad, but I used a pretty decent textbook-no, not grey's anatomy, although I did use the same physio textbook that our med school used) I mostly just remember it being hardcore rote memorization over and over and over and over...

It's probably the class that I could do the least smart thinking in lol.

 

[MDstudent79]

This is why Duke rules. ONE preclinical year, and one of (if not THE) shortest anatomy course. Sure, physio sucks, but I'm sure you engineers would be fine with that. (i.e. if you occlude the vessels in one arm what happens to blood pressure in the other?)

How short is Duke's anatomy class? Mine was 6 weeks.

 

[vtucci]

Repetition... get used to it. It sucks, but just read the same stuff over and over again. Med school isn't about concepts, its about memorizing as much material as you possibly can so you won't be thrown off on a test when a questions like this appears -
All of these are borders of inguinal triangle EXCEPT:

No amount of knowledge about tensile strength (or differential amplifiers) is going to answer this for you. The only way to get it right is to make sure you have read that particular bit of information until you can recite it with your eyes closed. I have always been weak at memorization and strong on critical thinking. The first year has been a big adjustment for me, but I think it's going to get better the "harder" med school gets. Concepts are my friends, memorization is the enemy.

Agreed. Memorization is key. It is not just engineers if it makes you feel better. I was a lawyer and got my butt handed to me in anatomy, neuro and physio (only because I did not spend any time on it because I was trying to not fail anatomy). Good news is that you will love pathology. It actually requires reasoning or at least that has been my experience.

Pharm is often a bad flashback to first year though 😡

 

[medicomel]

Get used to the hardship. I'm a physicist--->engineer--->current M2. My grades tanked the first semester. As you may have gathered from this board, brains don't matter in med school for the first two years. You've got to endlessly study the material until you know every minor detail to perfection. To give you an example: did you ever have to memorize a Shakespearian monologue in high school? Remember how painful it was to learn every line, spit it out during a test, and then forget it a week later? Med school is the same way, except now you're memorizing the whole play. My last exam was three weeks ago. If I were to retake it now without studying, I guarantee you that I'd fail. Study hard and you'll do fine.

About the writing comments: I'm offended by anyone who claims, "I wasn't an English major. I was a ________ major. I don't need to know who to write well." What a crock! In every field from journalism to engineering to even medicine, you need to know how to write. If you're struggling, you had better sign up for a writing class and learn how to form intelligible sentences. You won't believe the number of practicing doctors I meet that can't properly spell "a lot" or don't know the differences between "affect/effect" and "there/their/they're." Seeing their mistakes is an instant turn-off and naturally causes me to question what other errors they're making.

i wish i had time "..to endlessly study the material until know every minor detail to perfection."

if that were the case, i'd probably have 1/2 of the first block of biochem down pat by now. i basically learn what i can, however i can, and then fill in said scantron sheet on exam day.

 

[redman]

Can you guys help me out? I'm an another engineer struggling with 1st year med school. I only took bio I & II in undergrad, so I know I'm a little handicapped. I am consistently about 10 pts below the mean. I put a lot of time in, I feel like understand the concepts well, but I miss a lot of the easy detailed questions. Can anyone recommend a studying technique that is working for them? Thanks.

 

[OncoCaP]

Can you guys help me out? I'm an another engineer struggling with 1st year med school. I only took bio I & II in undergrad, so I know I'm a little handicapped. I am consistently about 10 pts below the mean. I put a lot of time in, I feel like understand the concepts well, but I miss a lot of the easy detailed questions. Can anyone recommend a studying technique that is working for them? Thanks.

How often do you go over the material? Are you actively working with the material in some way (putting it into your own words, outlining difficult parts). Is yours a memorization quantity issue or are you getting tripped up by something else?

 

[HamOnWholeWheat]

I did the opposite and completed a Masters in Aero Engineering AFTER completing the first two years of medical school. Needless to say, I found out the hard way that you can't memorize your way through Navier Stokes.
Shifting the other way is just as hard.

In the end I have to say that I enjoyed the medical mehod of studying better. "Memorize" probably isn't the right word. I would liken it more to learning a language. A Medical Student would focus on the vocabulary and common sentences/forms, while an engineer would get the rules down and look up the words as he needed them. The engineering method just doesn't work in Medical School (for the first 2 yrs), for the same reasons it wouldn't work in learning a language.

Just the .02$ of someone who's been there and back and there again.

HamOn

 

[lorelei]

In the end I have to say that I enjoyed the medical mehod of studying better. "Memorize" probably isn't the right word. I would liken it more to learning a language. A Medical Student would focus on the vocabulary and common sentences/forms, while an engineer would get the rules down and look up the words as he needed them. The engineering method just doesn't work in Medical School (for the first 2 yrs), for the same reasons it wouldn't work in learning a language.

Just the .02$ of someone who's been there and back and there again.

HamOn

I never thought of this before but you are so right. In addition to engineering, I was a German major, and not an extremely good one. I remember when I was first starting to learn a new language (in high school, for both German and Spanish) they'd teach us some phrases like "My name is X" first. I didn't like memorizing stuff when I didn't understand the individual words, and I was always trying to figure out what made the difference between that and "what is your name?" And I never made myself learn vocabulary words (or memorize irregular verb conjugations) with flash cards. This is why I never actually became fluent in German; I just didn't know enough words.

The way I DID learn words and grammar was largely through narrative - if I read a story with new words, for example. And though I didn't memorize words, I did memorize lots of poems, and then I had a base of sentences I could refer to mentally to check conjugations, etc.

And I still do sort of the same thing now; if I can think of somebody I've actually interacted with (a grandparent or hospital patient, or even an internet friend) who has the disease we're learning about, I can remember things so much better. And I can use that knowledge (like, oh right, Mrs. G had lung crackles) to reason things out. When people ask me how I know things it's usually a long story.

Um, that might not be interesting to anyone else but me. For engineers in general though, I do expect that things will get MUCH easier to remember once we have real-world experiences to apply them to.

 

[redman]

I rep the material 2-3 times before an exam. It may not be enough. Some suggested using note cards or condensing material onto to study sheets. I might try the condensing method.

Some have said to memorize everything. If that is the case, I shouldn't even go to class or listen to the mp3s.