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Are guys more likely to get accepted to vet school?

Discussion in 'Pre-Veterinary' started by NeonMountaineer, Sep 5, 2014.

  1. NeonMountaineer

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    I've noticed that a lot of vet school classes are 80%-90% female. I talked to one Dr. who was teaching, and she told me that since guys are the minority they are more likely to be accepted. Will being a guy give me a better chance at getting into a good school? And is there any difference in how hard it is to get accepted into an in-state or out of state school?
     
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  3. VMCASSTAFF

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    The easy answer to this is, no. What will get you into veterinary school is whether or not you are a qualified, competitive applicant. It's true that the pool (and industry) is about an 80/20% split towards women, but whether or not you are a particular gender does not make it any easier to get in. Same is true for your in-state or out of state schools... it's your qualifications nothing else.

    tw
     
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  4. WildZoo

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    Hmm. I would agree with the gender portion, since the applicant percentage seems to match the accepted percentage (and those percentages are about the same across all the schools) but just from looking at the numbers alone I have to disagree about IS vs OOS. It depends on your in state school. If your IS offers more seats to IS students and has lower academic cutoffs, then of course it is going to be easier for you to get in there than, for instance, Georgia, which over the past few years has had less than 10 OOS students in each class. Same for if you're applying to NC State as an OOS student - their GPA cutoff is higher for OOS. However, some schools it might not make much of a difference. It really depends on the individual schools you are applying to and what their admissions procedures are.
     
  5. VMCASSTAFF

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    Schools have increased their numbers of out of state students, and while the number of available seats changes annually the number of seats don't actually make getting in any easier or harder. Again, regardless of where you apply, it comes down to whether or not YOU are qualified, and if you have what that school is looking for. I do agree, however, that your qualifications change based on where you are applying -- some schools don't look at GPA or GRE some cut off if you're under a certain GPA. Do your homework to make sure YOU qualify before applying.
     
  6. DVMDream

    DVMDream Don't disturb the snowflakes
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    Yes, your qualifications are the most important, but saying that it does not matter if you are in state or out of state is a flat out lie or maybe just naive.

    All it takes is a quick look at statistics among the individual vet schools to see that.

    I will use UGA, for an example, here is the link to their stats: http://vet.uga.edu/admissions/statistics

    637 "at large" or out of state applicants applied and out of those 15 were enrolled

    244 Georgia residents applied out of those 80 were accepted. Now just that difference it is plain to see that being a Georgia resident gave you increased odds of being accepted.

    Now on that same page, they also have basic stats of those "at large" vs. those that are Georgia residents... The Cum. GPA for OOS: 3.68, for Georgia residents: 3.55. Science GPA for OOS: 3.67, for Georgia residents: 3.44.

    This is just one school, but if one does some looking this is similar across the board minus a few schools that accept similar numbers of OOS as they do in-state, but even at those schools you have less people applying that are residents of that state than you do that are non-residents. So if you have 300 people apply as an in-state student for 50 seats and 800 people apply as OOS students for 50 seats, you would want to be in that in-state pool. There is just simply less competition.

    Obviously, being in-state does not make up for poor GPA's or GRE scores, but for those that are sitting at average, being IS can give you a significant advantage and was actually recommended to me in a file review by one of the veterinary schools.
     
  7. LetItSnow

    LetItSnow Skipping the light fandango
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    The number of available seats obviously makes it easier or harder. If there are 400 qualified applicants for 50 seats versus 400 qualified applicants for 100 seats you'll do better at the school with 100 seats.

    That's obvious, right? So I presume you meant something different than what you actually said?

    It does not come down to whether you are qualified or not. MANY qualified applicants won't make the cut. Being 'qualified' (a fuzzy variable, I think, since it differs from school to school) is obviously required before a school will give you an admissions offer, but the way you phrased it makes it sound like "if you're qualified you'll get in, if not, you won't" and that's not the reality of the situation.
     
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  8. VMCASSTAFF

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    Um. Ok.
     
  9. LetItSnow

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    And as an aside, I find it interesting that VMCAS is on here making admissions/applications suggestions that would seem to encourage more people to apply for spots they aren't likely to get.

    Since VMCAS gets paid on a per-school application basis, that would seem to be a fairly blatant conflict of interest. Especially since the suggestions don't make sense.

    Unless someone else can point out how the number of seats doesn't impact your chances at all?
     
  10. VMCASSTAFF

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    Sure you have a point. But let's face it, if you are applying to a school that cuts off a GPA at 3.59 and you have a 3.20... are you qualified to apply to that school? Are you going to spend the money to apply to that school, "just in case"? Yes, I agree, many qualified applicants won't make the cut, and I in no way meant to imply that if you're qualified, you'll get in. I'm urging applicant to review the admissions policies and target schools where you will be considered a competitive applicant. Don't apply to 30 schools because you're "bound to get in somewhere". Be an educated consumer. The ratio of applicants to seats is around 2:1. That's pretty good odds in my book.
     
  11. LetItSnow

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    Ok. Then just say that. What you actually said, though, was "the number of seats don't actually make getting in any easier or harder."

    That just doesn't make sense. That's all I'm saying. I agree that people should do their research and apply to schools to which they meet the requirements.

    I think the number of seats versus candidates is probably a FAR BIGGER issue than what I would guess is a relatively small number of people who apply to schools without actually meeting the requirements. But then, I don't have the data like you do.
     
  12. DVMDream

    DVMDream Don't disturb the snowflakes
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    Is this across all vet schools, looking nationally? Because looking at individual schools, this is much higher... like 3 or 4:1 for IS and up to 40:1 for OOS.
     
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  13. VMCASSTAFF

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    There are just over 6000 applicants for about 3000 seats in the us schools
     
  14. dyachei

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    Not including Texas.
     
  15. VMCASSTAFF

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    All us schools
     
  16. dyachei

    dyachei vet robot pirate zombie
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    so you guys track TMDAS?
     
  17. VMCASSTAFF

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    Texas A&M is a member of AAVMC. They all report numbers to us.
     
  18. dyachei

    dyachei vet robot pirate zombie
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    interesting.
     
  19. VMCASSTAFF

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    Go to aavmc.org and look for public data.
     
  20. LetItSnow

    LetItSnow Skipping the light fandango
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    I'm not really sure how useful that number is, though. Assuming you mean unique applicants, that statistic doesn't say anything about distribution, or number of schools applied to per applicant, or .... etc. There are a lot of other factors that go into determining a pre-vet's chances than the number of total seats available divided by the total number of applicants.

    I mean, it's an interesting number. Sorta. I'm just not sure it has value on an individual level. You certainly can't, as a pre-vet, take that number and say "Great! I've got a 50/50 shot at getting into vet school."
     
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  21. VMCASSTAFF

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    It's just facts. Take it or leave it.
     
  22. LetItSnow

    LetItSnow Skipping the light fandango
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    Cool stuff.
     
  23. LetItSnow

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    No need to get grumpy just because you got called out for a stupid statement. I've gotten called out for plenty of stupid statements, too. Just ack it and move on. *shrug*
     
  24. dyachei

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    so I looked it up. I would guess that it DOESN'T include TMDAS because of this caveat: "
    *This data represents only VMCAS applicants."

    Also based on the data that ratio is not really correct, given that "VMCAS currently seats 90.5% of first year seats"
     
  25. Minnerbelle

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    Yeah... But that's not taking into account the number of applicants who get accepted but go elsewhere. The 2:1 ratio is fairly similar to med school too (or it was around the time I was applying). Like a few years ago, CSU had like 1000+ OOS applicants for 30 seats or something. Sounds super competitive when you look at it that way. But push comes to shove they had a hard time having accepted students to actually commit to attending, so they blew through their ginormous waitlist (who knows how big it actually was it must have been sizable given how many sdn'ers made it on the waitlist) and pulled even applicants who had been outright rejected. Schools like never report how many percent of students were actually accepted because it makes their numbers look really bad.
     
  26. DVMDream

    DVMDream Don't disturb the snowflakes
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    Yes, I realized that which is why I asked if that was national average. However, I think that is a very simplified way to look at it and that your actual "odds" of getting accepted are not at all reflected by that "2:1" ratio. There are way too many variables to just say there are 2 applicants to every 1 seat and that is "good" odds, have to take into account that not all applicants apply to every school.
     
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  27. Minnerbelle

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    No one said that 2:1 are good odds. It is just what it is. It doesn't mean you have a 50:50 shot. It takes a lot to meet minimal qualifications to apply. More than 50% of applicants can be highly qualified (or not. it just really depends on that year's applicant pool). The further you are from being in the top 50% of applicants, the worse and worse your chances of getting in.
     
  28. DVMDream

    DVMDream Don't disturb the snowflakes
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    But that is exactly what VMCAS is saying. And exactly what I am disagreeing with.
     
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  29. Gwenevre

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    I have a curious question, is there more than one person who uses the VMCAS Staff username? Because I've noticed that more helpful and logical posts are signed with "tw", but above where there's shorter and more snippy posts, there's no signatures. Just an observation.
     
  30. pinkpuppy9

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    To go back to the OP's post, I don't care what politically correct statements were posted in response to you. I have a male friend who was flat out told "You're a guy, so I wouldn't stress too much about being accepted." Granted, I was not sitting in on his meeting with the admissions adviser, it is only one school, and I have heard it from only one person. If the school seems to value diversity, it might not limit that to race/ethnicity.

    You still have to be a decent applicant, of course.

    Also, @VMCASSTAFF , I find your responses on this thread quite unprofessional, particularly your "Um. Ok." I'm not sure why you think it's a good idea to get snarky on here. This board is primarily for student-to-student conversation. While I myself certainly appreciate schools THEMSELVES popping in here and there (particularly during application review season), you have posted some misleading information more than once. It's very troubling that someone in your position is really going to say that "it is your qualifications and nothing else" that get you into veterinary school.

    I could be wrong, but I'm fairly sure it's the same person. I see the same patterns in the APVMA Facebook page posts from him and the posts on here. Shorter/rude posts don't necessarily show that same pattern, but I find it hard to believe that the username is manned by "tw" for all friendly posts, and handed off to someone else when the snark comes out.
     
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  31. WildZoo

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    I don't know about political correctness, but you can't argue with numbers. The percentage of males in the total applicant pool and the percentage of males who are attending (for all the schools I've seen) are the same. If there was some advantage to being male, the number would be higher in the class statistics. Maybe that guy was misinformed, but I've seen nothing to suggest that being male gives you any advantage in this case.
     
  32. pinkpuppy9

    pinkpuppy9 Illinois c/o 2019
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    Yeah that's why I put those disclaimers in there that it was word of mouth and whatever. I haven't studied numbers, I just wanted to put it out there that an admissions officer has reportedly given a male a reason to breathe a sigh of relief. :shrug: I just get a tad annoyed with the sugar-coated "Oh, just get experience and good grades and you'll succeed!" because there's more to it than that more often than not.
     
  33. DVMDream

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    Hold on. I for one appreciate VMCAS coming around here to help with the applications and how to fill them out. That is what they know and they are the best to answer those types of questions. I think you are being a bit harsh, this forum isn't just for student to student conversation and the vet schools, VMCAS is a vital part part of the application process and they should be on these forums. They are taking time to come here and help with answering questions regarding VMCAS and I think that is awesome of them.

    I do think they need to hold off on answering specific school admissions policies or acceptance rates since it seems they don't know that information very well. However, I do like that they are willing to come around here to help with the applications and filling them out. I think they just need to stick to that and refrain from answering questions relating to admissions rates or admissions statistics for specific vet schools.
     
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  34. LetItSnow

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    From a numbers perspective I don't think being male helps. The percentage of male applicants (at least, at my school) has been roughly the percentage of males given seats for a while now. So it doesn't seem like it matters. Put differently, they aren't accepting a higher percentage of males (just because they're male).

    Maybe other schools are... dunno.
     
  35. pinkpuppy9

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    Which is why I said that I appreciate the schools coming on here. And that I don't appreciate VMCAS talking about anything school-specific or apparently even admissions statistics. I will give them props for answering so many questions, but I can't say they've made the application easy to understand. Most questions could be avoided if they didn't decide to make everyone think they'd have no chance if they didn't submit by September 2nd...I'm quite confident they just don't want to be slammed during October.

    Either way, a professional from the application service being so rude and short leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
     
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  36. LetItSnow

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    I agree. I appreciate their increased presence here as well. They have answers to many questions the rest of us don't.

    I think the VMCAS employee just needs to do a better job of differentiating between the application process and the admissions process. They know (or should know) a lot about the former (more than the rest of us, for sure!), but I don't know of any reason they'd be particularly informed about the latter; certainly not as much as people who have gone through it. Whenever she/he slips into answering admissions questions I find myself banging my head against the table (like the time they talked about advisers at school being the best route for pre-vet information - absolutely awful advice at most undergrad institutions).
     
  37. DVMDream

    DVMDream Don't disturb the snowflakes
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    I think you are seriously not giving them credit for answering application related questions. They are the best source of information for those questions. You don't have to do what they suggest, but they are the best source and most reliable source for answering those questions. I have largely stepped back from answering questions specific to the VMCAS application because it has changed quite a bit since I applied and because they are around. Otherwise my answer for many questions would be to contact them. Sure I can give an opinion but VMCAS is the best authority on those issues. And you have to give them credit where it is due. We do not know what goes on behind closed doors. I disagree that they made it seem like the application has to be in on September 2nd, they said that they highly recommend it and since none of us knows what happens after you submit, their response is the best one to listen to. You don't have to follow their recommendation, but they are doing this community a service by being here to answer those types of questions.
     
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  38. DVMDream

    DVMDream Don't disturb the snowflakes
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    :laugh:
    Yeah, I was kind of banging my head on a few things, especially the advisers at undergrad institutions. That was funny.
     
  39. pinkpuppy9

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    Definitely said "I will give them props for answering so many questions." Lol. The wording for the September 2nd deal is MUCH better than it was last year. Last year they had a whole bunch of "Schools will start looking at your application once you hit submit! Do it in September or earlier!" That was simply not true, at least for the schools I applied to. I guess that's another example of VMCAS speaking for the schools again. They clarified it this year for a reason.

    Even though I still think they are digging themselves into a hole with wording:
    "VMCAS STRONGLY recommends that you get S.E.T. for verification by September 2nd!

    S.E.T. stands for

    Submission – Have your application E-submitted and paid for

    Evaluations – Have at least one of your required three completed evaluations

    Transcripts – Have all (U.S. and English Speaking Canadian) transcripts posted to your application

    Because verification can take as many as four weeks, if you are S.E.T. by September 2nd your application has the best chance of being verified before the October 2nd deadline!"

    So basically, I know the deadline they are referring to as the absolute, no more submissions, October 2nd deadline. However, here and in other places, they make it seem like you have to be verified by the 2nd, and that if you don't give them enough time, it's on you. In reality, you will be verified whether or not you submit in June or October. Your app will just be mailed later. Whether or not that affects your chances depends on the schools, I suppose. Last year, Michigan State waited until the last batch from VMCAS was received (and supplementals were received as well) before decisions were made, for example. Midwestern did rolling admissions if I'm not mistaken.
     
  40. LetItSnow

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    I suggested a few years ago (and I still think it would make sense) that if they actually want to give people incentive to submit earlier, they should do a graduated application fee. Discount some amount for having it in by Aug 1, then Sep 1, then finally full price for Oct 1. Or whatever.

    I dunno. Maybe other people are more antsy about it than I was, but I never took them seriously about the "file early for your own good!" stuff. I figured if the deadline was Oct 2 it was Oct 2 and whether I got it in early, or how much earlier I got it in, was pretty irrelevant.

    I'm a bit :) of a cynic at heart, so I pretty much assume that any time a corporation wants me to do something for vaguely stated reasons, it's really because they want it done (in this case, probably to spread out their server load and personnel workload) for their sake rather than my sake. If it really were going to benefit me, there would be concretely stated reasons that would make sense. Conversely, if they really just want it in for their own purposes, then they should give me incentive. But when you give me some vague "really! it's for your own good! trust us!" kinda nonsense, it just sounds disingenuous.
     
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  41. pinkpuppy9

    pinkpuppy9 Illinois c/o 2019
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    Discounts :heckyeah: But really, until a school says "We will give preference to those who submit by September 2nd," I'm going to keep assuming all of this is because VMCAS wants their workload spread out over time. I submitted on September 2nd last year and am seriously considering waiting until the end of this month this year (I'm getting 40 hours a week vet experience right now).
     
  42. DVMDream

    DVMDream Don't disturb the snowflakes
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    What does this have to do with when you submit?

    My guess is that you want to put down higher hours on your application, but you can put down that it is an ongoing experience at 40 hours/week, the vet schools do realize that experiences will continue.
     
  43. pinkpuppy9

    pinkpuppy9 Illinois c/o 2019
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    Yes, exactly. However, according to VMCAS, the hours you have down at the time of submission are what the schools use when reviewing your application. I've asked that question specifically. Sure, the school can extrapolate on your future hours since you have no end date listed. But VMCAS told me that doesn't matter and that no future hours/experiences are considered, even if your new job starts October 3rd. It doesn't matter.
     
  44. DVMDream

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    Status:
    Veterinarian
    I can see them not considering things after the deadline, that is why you can email schools to update them. But I am rather certain schools take into account current, ongoing experiences, at the very least they do take note of them because they ask about them at interviews. Guess that is possibly something that is very school dependent.
     

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