Are MDs ignorant or just being selfish?

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by Mr. Eastern Medicine, Oct 18, 2001.

  1. Mr. Eastern Medicine

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    Why is that everytime I ask MDs about acupuncture, their answers are always negative about it. They either just laugh at me and not say a word, or tell me not to believe those "myth medicine".

    Why can't MDs accept other forms of medicine?
    They need to learn to accept or learn or at least even try to understand other forms of medicine, if their primary reason being a doctor is to help their patients. Because patients deserve and need more than just those prescription drugs.
    The best medicine is the combination of both western and eastern medicine. And many MDs just simply don't want to accept this fact.

    Are they being selfish by thinking western medicine is the best, therefore we can't accept other forms of medicine?

    What do you guys think?
     
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  3. Jalby

    Jalby I fight crime at day when Batman are sleeping.
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    Wow. This guys had posted what is a secondary, why does everybody hate howard, and now this. Somebody should introduce him to TPN.
     
  4. Rumit

    Rumit Senior Member
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    Before I answer your question, I'd like to point out that you are actually displaying the kind of animosity that makes cooperation between alternative and allopathic forms of medicine so difficult. If you truly want cooperation, then you have to be willing to take part in an open and fair dialogue as well.

    As for your question. A lot of hostility by MD's comes from a couple of factors. One is that many don't know very much about alternative medicine. Most of the time, when I ask about it, I get a response that indicates that they don't know enough about it to answer the question. However, it's generally not hostile. This is partly due to a general lack of good scientific literature on the subject.

    The other problem is that all forms of alternative medicine tend to get grouped together and so they tend to be judged as one. This is a big problem. For instance, while there is scientific evidence that acupuncture works, there is none that validates homeopathy. These two different forms of medical treatment tend to get lumped together when, in fact, they are very different. This is, in part, the fault of alternative health practioners who seem to blindly accept any treatment that is not part of traditional allopathic medicine. Touch healing is another one that comes to mind. All this serves to undermine those truly usefull treatments such as acupuncture or massage therapy.

    Another problem that many doctors have with alternative medicine is the unwillingness many of it's practioners seem to display towards participating in double blind studies. Until, the alternative health community goes ahead and performs these studies and publishes them in peer reviewed journals how can they expect any significant level of cooperation from MD's?

    Anyhow, that's just my opinion.

    Adam
     
  5. tBw

    tBw totally deluded
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    I guess most MDs just don't get the point...

    okay, that was an awful pun even for me

    sorry guys but someone had to

    :)

    onwis
     
  6. nitemagi

    nitemagi Senior Member
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    little harsh there.

    It's plain and simple conditioning. They've been taught from an earlier generation that regarded any non-allopathic treatment with condemnation. There are, however, a LOT of MD's out there who are open to it, many who now refer out to other treatments(especially with chronic illnesses), and a few who even practice it.
     
  7. Resident Alien

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    Perhaps this is relevant, though i dont like this dude's postings. During my interview at OSU yesterday, i asked this very question (politely) to my interviewer, and the gist of her reply was a refutation of studies that homeopathic medicine has come out with. She went as far as to acknowledge its presence. (The whole interview was another affair, i hope they liked me :D)
     
  8. lilninja

    lilninja Senior Member
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    oldernotwiser - I don't know why I laugh at such silly puns, but I guess it was just the right time to hear something silly (I've been working on a paper all day).

    Anyhow, I don't think that MDs as a whole are against acupuncture or alternative healing - in fact, I know of an MD who is a licensed acupuncturist (who teaches at a medical school). The med students kind of question it though, but I am kind of pleasantly surprised to see that kind of openness. In fact, at the free clinic I volunteer at, there are three departments (MO, OD, and DDS), and the ODs have acupuncture therapy. I'm not sure what my take on it is, since I haven't experienced it. But part of being a doctor is healing the patient, and if the acupuncture works (some patients swear by it) then I have no right to say it's wrong.

    Mr. Eastern Medicine - I find it strange that you place MDs in a "they" category, as if we should stand against them. I think that the opinions form from the individual, and not just because they happen to be an MD. It's not fair to generalize like that.

    Jalbrekt - this is dumb, but what is TPN?
     
  9. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats
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    TPN is the other board...and where this crap belongs...
    OR put it into The Lounge or Everyone category. That's where people love to fight :)

    Mr. Eastern Medicine: From now on post in one of the places mentioned above b/c we have no room for posts like yours in pre-allo...Unless you add at the end of it
    "I hate AMCAS!" or "I still don't have my MCAT score!" or "Can I be part of the scooby fan club too?"

    :D :rolleyes:
     
  10. Resident Alien

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    lilninja,
    I think he meant TPR -- The Princeton Review.
     
  11. 8675309

    8675309 Member
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    This is cut and paste from the Acupuncture Today website (an affliate of the National Commission for Certification in Alternative Medicine)

    Acupuncture is one of the oldest, most commonly used systems of healing in the world. Originating in China some 3,500 years ago, only in the last three decades has it become popular in the United States. In 1993, the Food and Drug Administration estimated that Americans made up to 12 million visits per year to acupuncture practitioners and spent upwards of half a billion dollars on acupuncture treatments.

    Traditional Chinese medicine hold that there are as many as 2,000 acupuncture points on the human body, which are connected by 20 pathways (12 main, 8 secondary) called meridians. These meridians conduct energy, or qi (pronounced "chi"), between the surface of the body and its internal organs. Each point has a different effect on the qi that passes through it.

    Qi is believed to help regulate balance in the body. It is influenced by the opposing forces of yin and yang, which represent positive and negative energy and forces in the universe and human body. Acupuncture is believed to keep the balance between yin and yang, thus allowing for the normal flow of qi throughout the body and restoring health to the mind and body.

    Several theories have been presented as to exactly how acupuncture works. One theory suggests that pain impulses are blocked from reaching the spinal cord or brain at various "gates" to these areas. Since a majority of acupuncture points are either connected to (or are located near) neural structures, this suggests that acupuncture stimulates the nervous system.

    Another theory suggests that acupuncture stimulates the body to produce narcotic-like substances called endorphins, which reduce pain. Other studies have found that other pain-relieving substances called opiods may be released into the body during acupuncture treatment.

    Unlike hypodermic needles, acupuncture needles are solid and hair-thin, and they are not designed to cut the skin. They are also inserted to much more shallow levels than hypodermic needles, generally no more than a half-inch to an inch depending on the type of treatment being delivered.

    While each person experiences acupuncture differently, most people feel only a minimal amount of pain as the needles are inserted. Some people reportedly feel a sensation of excitement, while others feel relaxed. If you experience significant pain from the needles, it may be a sign that the procedure is being done improperly

    When practiced by a licensed, trained acupuncturist, acupuncture is extremely safe. As a system of health care, acupuncture already has some inherent safeguards. Because the treatment is drug-free, patients do not have to worry about taking several doses of a medication or suffering a possible adverse reaction.

    Properly administered, acupuncture does no harm. However, there are certain conditions you should notify an acupuncturist about before undergoing treatment. If you have a pacemaker, for instance, you should not receive electroacupuncture due to the possibility of electromagnetic interference with the pacemaker. Similarly, if you have a tendency to bleed or bruise easily, or if you are a hemophiliac, you may want to consider a different type of care.

    In the late 1970s, the World Health Organization recognized the ability of acupuncture and Oriental medicine to treat nearly four dozen common ailments, including neuromusculoskeletal conditions (such as arthritis, neuralgia, insomnia, dizziness, and neck/shoulder pain); emotional and psychological disorders (such as depression and anxiety); circulatory disorders (such as hypertension, angina pectoris, arteriosclerosis and anemia); addictions to alcohol, nicotine and other drugs; respiratory disorders (such as emphysema, sinusitis, allergies and bronchitis); and gastrointestinal conditions (such as food allergies, ulcers, chronic diarrhea, constipation, indigestion, intestinal weakness, anorexia and gastritis).

    In 1997, a consensus statement released by the National Institutes of Health found that acupuncture could be useful by itself or in combination with other therapies to treat addiction, headaches, menstrual cramps, tennis elbow, fibromyalgia, myofascial pain, osteoarthritis, lower back pain, carpal tunnel syndrome and asthma.

    Other studies have demonstrated that acupuncture may help in the rehabilitation of stroke patients and can relieve nausea in patients recovering from surgery. For a complete description of specific conditions that can be treated by acupuncture, visit the Condition Center.

    As with most health practitioners, the first visit to an acupuncturist usually begins with the practitioner taking a detailed history. Since traditional Chinese medicine takes a more holistic approach to patient care than Western medicine, you may be asked questions that appear unimportant (questions about your sleep habits, your ability to tolerate heat or cold, your dietary habits, etc.) but are actually vital to the type of care you will receive.

    After reviewing your history, the practitioner will begin diagnosing your ailment. Depending on your condition, you may be subjected to an examination of the tongue, as well as an examination of the pulse ? a major diagnostic technique in traditional Chinese medicine.

    Using all of the information obtained during the history and diagnosis, the practitioner will then determine the cause of your symptoms. Depending on the condition, needles will be inserted into specific acupuncture points on the body. The acupuncturist may use moxa or electrical stimulation to enhance acupuncture's therapeutic effect.

    Depending on the seriousness and the length of your condition, your first visit may take between 30-60 minutes. It may take several visits to see significant improvement or cure your condition. As with any treatment plan, however, make sure that your questions are answered completely, and that the treatment plan seems viable and reasonable. If you don't understand a particular technique or type of treatment, make sure to ask.
    <<<<<<<<<<<<<< End of Cut and Paste, here's my opinion>>>>>

    If qi exists and yin and yang are correct then why haven't I learned about it in Biochemistry class. If such an "energy" exists in the body, and thus the universe than shouldn't it be able to be measured? I personally think that all positive effects of acupuncture can be attributed to a placebo effect. People go into the therapy thinking this is "powerful" medicine and low and behold it works. I think that the mind has a much more powerful effect on the body than we, as of yet, appreciate and thus people can "think" themselves well. As soon as there is a LARGE double blind study (you could make it double blind by NOT using the correct points for qi in the control groups or something similar) that proves the SIGNIFICANT positive effects of acupuncture, it is all smoke and mirrors. It requires a faith in a power equal to the believe that god had a son who died for all our sins. What's the difference between acupuncture and religion? It has been "proven" that spirituality can "help" those in pain from illness, and I would argue that that is similar to the effects of acupuncture.
     
  12. lilninja

    lilninja Senior Member
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    Well, that's certainly one extreme of the whole argument. I would disagree that it is equivalent to a religion. Acupuncture often uses medication that may affect the nervous system, so I'd venture to say there is some kind of physiological effect.

    But I agree that there may be a high placebo effect as well. (But that doesn't mean we should completely discount it)
     
  13. Rumit

    Rumit Senior Member
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    I think that you can question the validity of 'chi' without saying that all the effects of acupuncture are due to a placebo. It seems to me that 'chi' is the chinese explanation of the nervous system. If you consider the fact that it was developed 3000 years ago, then it is actually quite good. Of course, our current understanding of the nervous system is far better. I think there is probably some way to explain acupucture's effects scientifically. I also don't believe that it is simply a placebo effect. There have been studies on cats from UC Irvine showing that electroacupuncture can significantly reduce artificially increased blood pressure. You can do a pubmed search for acupuncture to find the studies. I've only read the abstracts so I won't vouch for the quality of the data. But, it seems promising at least.

    Anyhow...that's all I got...I'd love to hear other people's comments though. I think it's a field open to questions and in need of people willing to do quality research to definitively prove or disprove its efficacy.

    Adam
     
  14. 8675309

    8675309 Member
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    lilninja
    Right, well if they're using medication I can understand where the effect comes from in terms of the physiology. I do NOT want acupuncture completely discounted UNTIL the results of a LARGE double blind study are released that show it's all smoke and mirrors. I was simply giving my personal opinion on the matter. If it works to really help patients in a way other than just a placebo effect than I think it should be funded, researched, payed for by insurance, etc. etc. etc. However, until we have prove I don't think that we should just accept it wholesale.

    "The fact that an opinion has been widely held is no evidence whatsoever that it is
    not utterly absurd." (Bertrand Arthur William Russell, 1872-1970)
     
  15. lilninja

    lilninja Senior Member
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    I agree about the research - fortunately, there seems to be a lot of interest (and I have seen more and more MD-run acupucture clinics around). I think there are even major collaborative efforts going on with institutions of Eastern and Western Medicine.
     
  16. Rumit

    Rumit Senior Member
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    You know...I was just thinking. The most irritating thing about this Mr. Eastern Medicine guy is that he just makes lame, antagonistic, bitter, posts and then doesn't take part in the ensuing discussion. Oh well.

    Adam
     
  17. lilninja

    lilninja Senior Member
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    8675309 - I just got your screen-name (cool!)
     
  18. Dylann FMD

    Dylann FMD Senior Member
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    Ok, first off, Eastern Med, I am really curious as to your background. Through this post and the one on Howard, you don't seem to think highly of allopathic students. Is there a reason for this? And if you think we are so flawed, why are you spending your time here?

    Ok, now to your question. Honestly, most doctors are not 100% against alternative medicine; they have concern over their patients and what they are doing to try and treat their conditions. This is my opinion, but I think people look towards alternative medicine for several reasons. For one, we don't have everything figured out with allopathic medicine. I admit it, we don't know how to treat everything. In fact, a lot of times its hard to diagnose something. People are uncomfortable when doctors are uncertain about their conditions. Another reason is some modern medical treatments (surgeries and drugs) have bad side effects. They aren't perfect! Another (strong) reason why people look to alternative therapy is because it is a fad. Modern medicine isn't perfect, and many have been slight, so these people are eager to rush to something reported on the news as being good for you.

    Honestly, yes, some alternative medicine, like acupuncture can be good for you. However, the extent varies greatly, and almost always falls short of proper modern medical treatment. I have talked to MD's about it, and the main reason they are against it is because psychologically patients believe this can cure things it can't. And this can have disastrous affects on the patient and others in society. If someone has strep throat, and instead of going to a doctor they take a bunch of herbs, well, when it leads to rheumatic fever, who's to blame? When a patient with TB goes for acupuncture before a doctor, and they suddenly infect a bunch of other people, how can you look favorably on the alternative therapy? When patients try to self diagnose and self treat, this can have disastrous implications. We go through all these years of training for a reason--figuring out what is wrong is not that easy!

    Another side note about alternative medicine, from an MD stand point, is that it is not properly regulated. In fact, for the most part, it just isn't regulated. Supplements are labeled as "natural" and are tested. A lot of these can do more harm than good. A few years back, there was a big push for people to take massive amounts of Vitamin C to stop cancer (especially smokers). When they did an actual scientific study on it, they found that in extreme amounts vitamin C actually increased cancer rates.

    I guess what I am trying to say is that we aren't totally against alternative medicine, and there are many reasons why we are hesitant towards it. It can help, both by the placebo effect and through actual physiologic effects. But it can do more harm than good. People complain about modern medicine costing too much, yet they are willing to shell out a lot of money for some of these treatments that aren't really that affective--its a paradox.

    Ok, enough rambling.
     
  19. nitemagi

    nitemagi Senior Member
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    This topic is funny. I can't believe it's already gone two pages. Bygones.

    So I come to this argument from a bit different angle. I'm a hypnotherapist, and I used to lecture at whole health expos in new england. I agree with a great deal of what Dylann says(regulation, harm). But the truth is that no form of medicine is inherently non-toxic, and that there is no one right way to heal. Coming from a mental health background, it was said for a while that the only way to get over extreme issues such as traumas was through therapy. Yet for most of history, people have gotten by, some even recovering, without "therapy." How? By other means that occur in the everyday world. I've had clients where miracles occur, and others with absolutely no effects. There's definitely a time and place and I won't even get into the religious angles on all this- but my point is that what's the difference for the patient. Placebo may have a stigma, but if the person is cured, what's the difference. We should be pursuing health. Look into psychoneuroimmunology, an example of science trying to harness the placebo for positive changes. If acupuncture helps a person, why does it matter. Contrary to quick thinking, there are primary care providers of other medical systems. They have served their section of the world for quite some time, without plagues springing up. Never underestimate the bodies ability to heal itself. Western medicine doesn't have quite as clean a history as many would think. There was a stigma for a long time in obstetrics a bit over a hundred years ago(date may be wrong)--mothers didn't want to go to a physician for delivery because they were afraid they would die. And many did. There was a high mortality rate because physicians wouldn't wash their hands between handling a corpse and delivering a child. It took a long time to overcome that stigma.

    Nowadays is a different story. The best medical schools have established centers, departments, etc., to research alternative/integrative medicine. It will become a part of the medical tradition.

    Ok, now I've ranted a bit too much. I respect those who work to improve health, regardless of modality, much like I respect those who have faith in a God and work to improve others lives through their faith. The beliefs in the religion don't matter as much as the fact that they are improving another person's life.

    This is a really undirected post.
     
  20. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats
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    I still don't get his screen name..wasup with it? tell poor ole scooby please :)
     
  21. Starflyr

    Starflyr Manic Faerie
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    OK. First off, people are making assumptions. Which I am now going to throw on their heads. *BIG GRIN*

    Im a first year at UTMB, an old allopathic school. One of the electives we can take during fourth year is an ALTERNATIVE MEDICINE rotation. *gasp* Yes, that's right, its actually being TAUGHT (and researched) here at UTMB. So...not all allopaths are against holistic/eastern/alternative medicine. Like someone else said, once there is literature, it will be more accepted.

    Star
     
  22. praying4MD

    praying4MD 2K Member
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    You know-- that really bad 80s song: "867-530- Ny-ee-yne" I think it was called Jenny's # or something? Maybe "Jesse's #." Nope, that was "Jesse's Girl:" "I wish I had Jesse's Girl, where can I find a woman like that.." Alright, while I'm sure most of you want more rehashing of horrible 80s tunes, I'll stop now. Hey, maybe I should post this in the Lounge, and become a "Lounge Singer." hehe. I am too funny. I crack myself up. :D

    Scooby, I don't get why you're still writing in the 3rd person. :confused: If it's really that much fun, maybe praying4MD should try it out for a while. :D
     
  23. praying4MD

    praying4MD 2K Member
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    There is no need to further inflate an already overblown ego! :D
     
  24. rxfudd

    rxfudd 1K Member
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  25. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats
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    Let it be known across the lands:

    Scooby shall answer to all the names mentioned above!

    Praying4md...you just want more scooby snacks don't you? And it's fun to talk in third person...scooby says so..therefore..it must be true!
     
  26. praying4MD

    praying4MD 2K Member
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    That's right. I totally forgot. Ah, the 80s bring back such memories... both good and bad. I can't believe I actually thought Rick Springfield or John Stamos were ever good looking or Cyndi Lauper was cool. :rolleyes: :eek: Such misguided children we were...
     
  27. praying4MD

    praying4MD 2K Member
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    BTW fudd, impressive knowledge of 80s music. Kinda scary actually. Are you sure you're ok? :) I think we should start a new club: 80s Addicted Anonymous. I hereby nominate rxfudd President-- hey, something else to pad your app with! :)
     
  28. Rumit

    Rumit Senior Member
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    Haha...it's amazing how fast a threat can deteriorate isn't it? :)

    Adam
     
  29. mj

    mj Senior Member
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    Actually, not to be a "stickler" but I think this is an improvement.

    mj thinks praying and scooby are hehe funny.


    mj
     
  30. rxfudd

    rxfudd 1K Member
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    praying4md, my love of the 80's is old news. Check out this post from June:

    The 80's Is Killing Me
     
  31. praying4MD

    praying4MD 2K Member
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    rxfudd (AKA 80s God): You are my role model! Teach me all you know. :D You forgot, "I Want You to Want to Me," by Cheap Trick and of course, Prince! Those were the days. God I feel old. :D
     
  32. dustinspeer

    dustinspeer Who's your daddy?
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    Forget the 80's, I wanna be Scooby's mentor!
     
  33. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats
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    Scooby?
    Is that you???
    Did you run away AGAIN!?!?!?!

    You get back here right now!
    Damn..what's a guy gotta do to keep his dogg in check!

    Here's a scooby snack big boy...Let's go find some sandwiches now! With Worsteschire sauce! YUMMY!!!!!
    :D :D :D :D
     
  34. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats
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    Don't forget me SHAGGY!!!!!!!
    :p :p :p :p :p
     
  35. Scooby Doo

    Scooby Doo IEatShavedPussyCats
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    Damn...the board changes all your previous names to your NEW identity! What a jip!!!
    Argh..oh well..there went that idea :(
    It's gonna look like I am talking to myself now..but I had changed my "name viewable to public title.."
    it would have been really funny...
    I SWEAR!
    much better than mr. eastern medicine at least...
     
  36. Mr. Eastern Medicine

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    Geez~ I didn't expect these people to criticize me for asking a question...and I also didn't expect these people to talk about their screen names.......haha


    Well, for those of you who want to know about my background, here it is. I am currently attending an Oriental medical school in Bethesda, MD. It's a 4-yr program which it consists of acupuncture, herbal medicine(not supplements), oriental massage therapy, etc.... I am also planning to go to a western medical school(probably Howard) after I graduate from my oriental medical school.
    That's why I asked you guys about Howard, what is Secondaries, and the view of acupuncture in the western society (M.D.s). Is it clear now?

    Jalbrekt, do you always view things in a negative way? "Try to get people mad?" "TPN?" Jalbrekt, what are you talking about? You still haven't answered my question.

    Rumit, I am sorry if I was busy today. Sorry for not taking part in the discussion. And also, I apoligize for irritating you....

    Thanks guys for your opinions. I hope you guys are planning to learn acupuncture also. I think it would be a plus if you are also a licensed acupuncturist as an M.D.
    And I wasn't trying to offend anybody....you guys know that. I guess I chose the wrong words....Sorry~
     
  37. FLY

    FLY Senior Member
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    You know what?? You just posted that to feel good about yourself...b/c you going to do it both....GREAT!!!
     
  38. Mr. Eastern Medicine

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    Geez~ What's wrong with you people??!! Why are you guys so negative about everything?

    Yes, I am going to do both! So what? If you are not going to answer my question, then don't even bother to post your message.

    I posted the message to make myself good......yeah sure, sure, sure. I will never understand some of you. I was just recommending to you guys to learn acupuncture for the benefit of you and for your future practice (patients, etc)....
     
  39. FLY

    FLY Senior Member
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    If you were trying to do this....
    Then why did you choose a title like this....
    MDs are not all knowing and they are trained in Western Medicine..not in Eastern Medicine and would not have enought knowledge about accupuncture..like you said
    There answers may be negative b/c THEY DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT..... They went to an Allopathic school..not an Oriental one..
    NO, they are not....they are MDs and not any Accupuncture practioners..and what they are taught to do is what they do..

    I personally think combining Western and Eastern medicines are great and I am really interested in doing that if I get the opportunity and good to hear that you are into it.. and good luck...
     
  40. praying4MD

    praying4MD 2K Member
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    See, this is why discussing the 80s is so much more fun.
     
  41. Rumit

    Rumit Senior Member
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    Hmm...I'm not so sure that discussing the 80's is so fun...but ripping on the 80's...now THAT's fun! ;)
     
  42. rxfudd

    rxfudd 1K Member
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    C'mon now - there are HUNDREDS of reasons to discuss the 80's...here are just a few:

    Ferris Bueller's Day Off
    Breakdancing
    The Gremlins
    Atari
    Trivial Pursuit
    Miami Vice
    Mr. T
    Beetlejuice
    Boom Boxes
    Fat Albert
    Back To The Future
    Pop Rocks
    Alf
    Choose-Your-Own-Adventure Books
    Reaganomics
    The Bangles
    Ghostbusters
    Pee Wee Herman
    Thriller
    War Games
    Pac Man
    Etch-A-Sketch
    Karate Kid
    "Baby On Board" Signs
    The Price Is Right
    Operation (the game)
    Capri Sun (The tinfoil packaged drinks)
    The Goonies
    Geraldo Rivera
    Laser Tag

    And that's what I can think of in just 5 minutes! So what did we get out of the 90's? Gangster rap and Jerry Springer. Bah! I'll stick with the 80's...
     
  43. audeo

    audeo Senior Member
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    The idea that acupuncture is perfectly safe if given by a trained professional is hardly believable. The knowledge and philosophical basis of acupuncture and other oriental medicine goes further than just yin and yang, the study often very hard. Furthermore, acupuncture not administered properly not only is uneffective, but also often severely compromise the health. You can just imagine meddling with the critical points in the nervous system in the wrong way. Medical doctors learn their practice through years before being able to carry out surgery well enough, and the same or even more time is required for acupuncture to be successfully performed.
    As for acupuncture relying on mostly placebo effect, its efficacy in anesthetizing seems hardly possible with simple placebo effect. Also, (this is my only personal experience) it was really effective for my sprinkled ankle.
    To the argument that proper scientific study should be made and reported on peer reviewed journals, I am in total agreement. However, most of acupuncture practitioners are not scientists, and medical scientists are not into researching on this area. To make matters worse, the identity of qi(chi) and the whole basis of acupuncture starting from yin and yang and extending into sixty four orientations are not compatible with our scientific analytical tools. At this point, qi(chi) is speculated merely at the level of psychic power. I say psychic power since qu(chi) masters actually precipitate physical effect such as blowing off the candles with hands--it is not the hand generated wind. I am thinking it would take a few more decades before some clues to the acupuncture may come about.
     
  44. praying4MD

    praying4MD 2K Member
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    You mean I'm the only one who still dresses like that on a regular basis? :D

    Just to add to rxfudd's list:
    - Footloose
    - Tom Cruise's underwear dance in Risky Business was worth every second of the 80s. :D ;)
     

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