Are Med Schools more open about GAYS?

[Mateodaspy]

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To the OP: I did not say I was gay on my PS or any secondary applications, though I probably should have used it on Stanford's. I just wasn't comfortable discussing it, didn't do any gay EC's, and it didn't really influence my decision to enter medicine.

That said, I think a few of my interviewers picked up on it and almost all were fairly hostile. I think being gay hurt me in the admissions process, if you check out my MDApplicants profile I think you'll agree. Mateodaspy ALWAYS advises people to say that they're gay and cites himself as a success story for this method. I would take this with a HUGE grain of salt. And no, I'm not saying that he's lying about his acceptances, it's just that there is something else that he fails to mention every time he gives this advice. I like him a lot and I'm not trying to start a fight, but if you're an average gay applicant it's bad advice.

ummm. okay. i don't know what you're talking about.

 

[Flopotomist]

ummm. okay. i don't know what you're talking about.

wowsa - just saw a pic of Mateo, and uhm - swoon.

 

[Mateodaspy]

wowsa - just saw a pic of Mateo, and uhm - swoon.

same to you buddy. 😀

 

[HumptyDumpty]

To the OP: I did not say I was gay on my PS or any secondary applications, though I probably should have used it on Stanford's. I just wasn't comfortable discussing it, didn't do any gay EC's, and it didn't really influence my decision to enter medicine.

That said, I think a few of my interviewers picked up on it and almost all were fairly hostile. I think being gay hurt me in the admissions process, if you check out my MDApplicants profile I think you'll agree. Mateodaspy ALWAYS advises people to say that they're gay and cites himself as a success story for this method. I would take this with a HUGE grain of salt. And no, I'm not saying that he's lying about his acceptances, it's just that there is something else that he fails to mention every time he gives this advice. I like him a lot and I'm not trying to start a fight, but if you're an average gay applicant it's bad advice.

I don't think saying you're gay is always the right thing for all gay people. I mean, if you're closeted and you never talk about being gay in your life outside of med school apps, I don't think you necessarily should force yourself to discuss it in your essays or interviews.

But you really don't have to hide it if it is relevant and you're comfortable talking about it. Mateodaspy's success doesn't mean that being gay will help your chances of acceptance, but it is testament to the fact that you can, in fact, be out and proud during the process and be offered admissions at the very best institutions.

It sounds like getunconcsious had some really bad luck, and that just sucks. But I still don't think the "average gay applicant" is ill-advised to discuss being gay openly and honestly in their apps. I'm an "average gay applicant" who was out during most of my interviews, and I thought my acceptances and rejections were totally fair.

 

[bigfrank]

Can someone enlighten this 3rd year? What does "gayness" or "straightness" have to do with a medical education?

Absolutely nothing; in fact, NO ONE cares.

 

[Flopotomist]

(in response to what being gay has to do with a medical education) Absolutely nothing; in fact, NO ONE cares.

Ahhh - if only this were true, there wouldn't be posts like this in the first place. The OP was asking this question because there are certain institutions that have an INSTITUTIONAL POLICY of making life more difficult for gay and lesbian students. The OP, (and me) do not want to make the mistake of applying to an institution like this.

Imagine - in any group there is always some A**hole that might degrade you - that is part of life, but when it is not just a single person, but the entire administration, then it is best to just not go to that school. I think the question was a valid one, and I look forward to the day that a post like this (which has been tried a few times now unsuccessfully) will generate a simple list of schools that welcome people from the Queer community.

 

[pagemmapants]

Uuuuuunngh, am I alone in DETESTING the idea that ANYONE can get "special consideration" in applying to medical school for anything other than PURE MERIT?

Call me old fashioned, but I think color, creed, and sexual preference are about as relevant as toothpaste preference or musical taste and have no place in applications at all.

 

[Flopotomist]

Uuuuuunngh, am I alone in DETESTING the idea that ANYONE can get "special consideration" in applying to medical school for anything other than PURE MERIT?

Call me old fashioned, but I think color, creed, and sexual preference are about as relevant as toothpaste preference or musical taste and have no place in applications at all.

I love how this always morphs into a "special rights" debate. We are not asking for special consideration, nor special rights. We just want the same fair shake that you have. I will compete with you fairly with regards to everything else on that application, but during the interview, when the subject of my family comes up - clearly YOU will receive special consideration from a number of schools that will discriminate against me now won't you? (USUHS, NYMC, Loma Linda)

Read the OP's comments carefully before jumping on your tired old bandwagon seillienne.

 

[pagemmapants]

I love how this always morphs into a "special rights" debate. We are not asking for special consideration, nor special rights. We just want the same fair shake that you have. I will compete with you fairly with regards to everything else on that application, but during the interview, when the subject of my family comes up - clearly YOU will receive special consideration from a number of schools that will discriminate against me now won't you? (USUHS, NYMC, Loma Linda)

Read the OP's comments carefully before jumping on your tired old bandwagon seillienne.

I'm not saying that a homosexual person shouldn't have the same chance of admission as anyone else. I'm just saying that it's discouraging to me that someone with a 25 would be granted to otherwise selective schools on the sole basis of his sexual preference; to fill a quota per se. I don't see why, in any case, it should be brought up in the first place.

I do admit that if an interviewer brings such things up it would be difficult to avoid discussion and yes, any negative results that might have are truly unfair.

It is "special treatment" that makes me cringe.

Please let me add a disclaimer: I am neither racist nor homophobic; indeed I am to many of my friends a proverbial "*** hag". I just think that there are some things that are relevant and others that are not.

I mean no offense.

 

[Flopotomist]

It is "special treatment" that makes me cringe.


I mean no offense.

I agree - special treatment makes me cringe as well - but do some research on this, and you will see that it is not gays and lesbians getting special treatment, it is the heteros.

As for your "I mean no offense" line - I am offended. I am offended and angry that you, a person who is obviously intelligent can read the original post and interpret it as even remotely implying a request for special treatment.

I also wonder why threads with the word gay in them keep getting hijacked by people who want to have debates about these issues - either answer the OPs question, or start your own thread about diversity issues, or gay rights issues - but quit hijacking other peoples' posts.

 

[dmoney41]

(USUHS, NYMC, Loma Linda)

Do you think there shouldn't be religious med schools or they shouldn't hold med students there to the tenets of their religion? I'm a little curious about this. I never really got why the NYMC students were so worked up - I mean, it's rather like going to a Catholic Church and being surprised when the pastor starts going on about the evils of premarital sex.

 

[pagemmapants]

Do you think there shouldn't be religious med schools or they shouldn't hold med students there to the tenets of their religion? I'm a little curious about this. I never really got why the NYMC students were so worked up - I mean, it's rather like going to a Catholic Church and being surprised when the pastor starts going on about the evils of premarital sex.

I agree. If you can't handle the dogma, don't apply to the religious schools. Simple as that.

Generalization: People seem to forget that they aren't just applying for a medical degree of a certain level of "prestige", they're also applying for an experience, a reputation, and a tradition to which the school is associated. I, for one, didn't apply to any school at which I thought I might be uncomfortable. That includes eliminating UPenn strictly on the basis of winters and WashU strictly on the basis of proximity to a coastline. Too much land makes me claustrophobic. 🙂 If religious dogmatism and pontification make you uncomfortable, avoid christian-affiliated schools. *shrug* If you don't, don't complain when you get a soap-box jockey for a professor.

 

[Mateodaspy]

I agree. If you can't handle the dogma, don't apply to the religious schools. Simple as that.

Generalization: People seem to forget that they aren't just applying for a medical degree of a certain level of "prestige", they're also applying for an experience, a reputation, and a tradition to which the school is associated. I, for one, didn't apply to any school at which I thought I might be uncomfortable. That includes eliminating UPenn strictly on the basis of winters and WashU strictly on the basis of proximity to a coastline. Too much land makes me claustrophobic. 🙂 If religious dogmatism and pontification make you uncomfortable, avoid christian-affiliated schools. *shrug* If you don't, don't complain when you get a soap-box jockey for a professor.

I think that was the point of this thread -- to narrow down a list of schools that are open to the GLBT community.

But thank you for your concern.

However, I'll still continue to fight for openness within every institution, including the church (even the Catholic church that I grew up knowing and loving, which eventually turned its back on me once I realized I was gay).

 

[jennben4]

no kidding!! i can't believe i didn't catch this post sooner. i was supposed to be c/o '03, but i was actually c/o '02. please re-direct any obie-love love this way, myodana!!! what class were you? as for the ensuing debate... view my nymc post in the perspective of a med student. regardless of whether there is any gay/non-gay discrimination as far as acceptance is concerned (which i didn't really detect)... the big impact lies in treatment of the general public. do you want your education to vastly ignore the LGBT population??? that is a HUGE part of reality. put your blinders on if you will, but i choose a more liberal, realistic, and practical view of the world.

hey! another obie here! 😀 (what year did you graduate? do i know you?) i interviewed at NYMC, disliked it immensely, and eventually withdrew as well. i'm sure it's a fine medical school, and people who go there seem to like it, but i couldn't. no way. especially not after 4 years at oberlin.

 

[pagemmapants]

I'll still continue to fight for openness within every institution

I wish you the absolute best of luck.

This is one of the few "causes" of this century that I believe worthy of time and effort. Unfortunately, it will also be one of the hardest for all involved.

 

[Flopotomist]

Do you think there shouldn't be religious med schools or they shouldn't hold med students there to the tenets of their religion? I'm a little curious about this. I never really got why the NYMC students were so worked up - I mean, it's rather like going to a Catholic Church and being surprised when the pastor starts going on about the evils of premarital sex.

And suppose the "religion" of Scientology chooses to open up an allopathic school of medicine - would we rush to support their "medical" teachings, or would we expect them to teach real science, and not religion? Seems odd that in 2005, we are slaves to religion STILL, even in institutions of higher education in the sciences. Sad.

 

[pagemmapants]

And suppose the "religion" of Scientology chooses to open up an allopathic school of medicine - would we rush to support their "medical" teachings, or would we expect them to teach real science, and not religion? Seems odd that in 2005, we are slaves to religion STILL, even in institutions of higher education in the sciences. Sad.

*giggles* What about if a Christian Scientist group opened a medical school? Would it be like matter and antimatter and just annihilate itself?

 

[71263]

Do you think there shouldn't be religious med schools or they shouldn't hold med students there to the tenets of their religion? I'm a little curious about this. I never really got why the NYMC students were so worked up - I mean, it's rather like going to a Catholic Church and being surprised when the pastor starts going on about the evils of premarital sex.

There is a HUGE difference between practicing the tenets of one's religion and openly discriminating against students. Of course, while they are so busy enforcing "morality", some administrators seem to forget that it is immoral to judge others as well.

 

[IAMS]

Religious schools want an uncomplicated fantasy world. Get them married and pregnant, and they'll be upstanding people. There just can't be any playing around by young men and women.
It's impossible to separate out the politics of gays applying to med school. It shows we are contributing members of society.

 

[MoosePilot]

There is a HUGE difference between practicing the tenets of one's religion and openly discriminating against students. Of course, while they are so busy enforcing "morality", some administrators seem to forget that it is immoral to judge others as well.

Oh? Every school I've applied to has asked me if I've been the subject of any disciplinary action or been convicted of any felonies. Why are they judging me?

We all understand that schools are going to judge, we just disagree on whether this is something worthy of being discriminated against.

 

[71263]

Oh? Every school I've applied to has asked me if I've been the subject of any disciplinary action or been convicted of any felonies. Why are they judging me?

We all understand that schools are going to judge, we just disagree on whether this is something worthy of being discriminated against.

If an individual were to be rejected from a school, or mistreated by either students/administration solely on the basis that he or she had "been the subject of any disciplinary action or been convicted of any felonies", then yes, I would have to agree that it is wrong. However, as far as I know, many individuals who have had run-ins with the law and have been accepted to great undergrad/grad/professional programs and gone one to be successful. It seems that the discrimination in these cases is almost negligible, although that does not make it any more justified when it does happen. If I am wrong, please correct me.

My point is that administrators are given a position of responsibility, and their personal beliefs should not be used against students who look up to them to set an example.

 

[runner1979]

In any professional interview for a job, the topic of family, religion, etc can't even come up in conversation unless the applicant introduces the topic. And even then, it shouldn't be pursued by the interivewer. I know when I was interviewing others, I had to go through a course at my corporation to learn what was illegal/unnacceptable professional behaviour during an interview.

However, the very nature of the medical school application process invites people to talk about their personal lives--i.e. personal statement. So why shouldn't one be able to talk about being gay. I think its fair to say that a married applicant may mention his/her wife. Because the personal statement prompt is relatively vague, I think anything goes. As long as you can substantiate that what you discuss is relevant to your pursuit of medicine...go for it. After going through the medical school application process it is clear that interviewers feel they can ask anything, so the applicant should be able to state anything too.

It is often cited that minority patients feel more comfortable seeking treatment from minority physicians. Also there are women who prefer women OB/Gyns; males that prefer male urologists. I don't think its too off base to assume that a gay patient would feel more comfortable seeking treatment at a doctor who is gay or tolerant.

It is in this context that I can see how admitting a gay applicant could be beneficial to the learning environment of the class and to the public. Realistically though, this doesn't work. Professionally, your sexuality shouldn't come up and if a patient asks about it there are simple respnses to steer the discussion back to the task at hand--diagnosing and treating the patient. We're are not pursuing medicine so that we can corner nervous people in a room and talk about ourselves.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

My point is that administrators are given a position of responsibility, and their personal beliefs should not be used against students who look up to them to set an example.

no, their personal beliefs should not effect their judgement; however a school has every right to hold it against a student who does not subscribe to their basic tenets, no matter how unfair it may seem. It's the students' responsibility to research this before applying and not apply to schools whose principles are directly opposed to their own.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

I did work that into my PS, but eventually had to cut it because I didn't realize spaces counted as characters, so I exceeded the allowable character count.

surely you could have found something less important to eliminate instead

 

[71263]

no, their personal beliefs should not effect their judgement; however a school has every right to hold it against a student who does not subscribe to their basic tenets, no matter how unfair it may seem. It's the students' responsibility to research this before applying and not apply to schools whose principles are directly opposed to their own.

As far as I know, there is no school that bans homosexuality. The only school ive heard of that actually took administrative action was NYMC, who had no problems with the LGBT association until the name was changed.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Can someone enlighten this 3rd year? What does "gayness" or "straightness" have to do with a medical education?

absolutely nothing and we all know that

 

[Mateodaspy]

absolutely nothing and we all know that

If gayness has nothing to do with a medical education, then neither does one's religion.

People go into medicine for different reasons, PsychoDoctor... It is utterly ridiculous for you to assert that dealing with one's sexual orientation can never inspire one to become a physician. Please respect other's beliefs, Psycho, then maybe, someday, I will respect yours.

 

[DrBowtie]

Religion affects a ton more aspects of life than being homosexual does. Also, there is no laws stopping a private med school being chartered to foster gay health education.

I really try to refrain from the discussions but seriously. Just stick to schools that have no affiliation or public schools if you don't want to hear doctrine.

 

[thirdunity]

It's a stretch, but my sexuality *has* affected my decision to go premed - but only because I'm female. I'm bisexual (and monogamous, mind you), and it wasn't until I realized I didn't have to necessarily find a *male* life partner, that I made the decision that I wanted to go "all the way" with any kind of career that involved advanced education.

Mind you, I wouldn't say this in my personal statement, nor would I likely even bring my sexuality up, but I'm sure it's an issue for a lot of us women given how many of the guys on here say "I'd never marry a female doctor"... boy it feels good to have options.

 

[DrBowtie]

Debates over abortion, stem cell research, End of Life decisions are all rooted in religion. If you are a particular religion you should believe the doctrine about said decisions.

Being gay, there are more personal issues (with ignorant pts or docs), but no real medical issues besides nature vs. nurture.

 

[Mateodaspy]

Religion affects a ton more aspects of life than being homosexual does. Also, there is no laws stopping a private med school being chartered to foster gay health education.

I really try to refrain from the discussions but seriously. Just stick to schools that have no affiliation or public schools if you don't want to hear doctrine.

That's fine as long as you religious folk don't cry foul when a Jewish medical school forbids Christians from meeting on campus.

Though, something tells me there would be an urgent SDN posting by a concerned SDN'er (i.e. PsychoDoctor) if such discriminatory action were taken by a medical school.

 

[pagemmapants]

many of the guys on here say "I'd never marry a female doctor"... .

😱

You know, it really sucks for some of us hetero (or bi-curious 🙄 ) females in that, by chosing this profession, we're severely cutting down on the number of males that would even consider a relationship - let alone a marriage. I, for one, would love a family (husband + twin boys, if possible) but I'd much prefer it if I could get a husband who is a) independently wealthy 😉 or b) work from home (musician/writer/consultant/web dude). And how many of these are there around?!

Plus I hate dating people who are less intellectually inclined than I am. . . you can guess how often I'm out on a Saturday night.

 

[Flopotomist]

no, their personal beliefs should not effect their judgement; however a school has every right to hold it against a student who does not subscribe to their basic tenets, no matter how unfair it may seem. It's the students' responsibility to research this before applying and not apply to schools whose principles are directly opposed to their own.

Hmm.. it is the students' responsibility to research this? Like perhaps asking the question on SDN about which schools are open to gays? Wow - seems to me like that is EXACTLY what the OP was trying to do.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Uuuuuunngh, am I alone in DETESTING the idea that ANYONE can get "special consideration" in applying to medical school for anything other than PURE MERIT?

Call me old fashioned, but I think color, creed, and sexual preference are about as relevant as toothpaste preference or musical taste and have no place in applications at all.

old-fashioned or not, it's the only thing that makes any sense

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Please let me add a disclaimer: I am neither racist nor homophobic; indeed I am to many of my friends a proverbial "*** hag". I just think that there are some things that are relevant and others that are not.

I mean no offense.

what in the world is a "*** hag"? I never heard that term.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

As far as I know, there is no school that bans homosexuality. The only school ive heard of that actually took administrative action was NYMC, who had no problems with the LGBT association until the name was changed.

that's what i've heard also. Then why are homosexuals concerned about their sexuality hurting them? why do these threads come up so often?

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Hmm.. it is the students' responsibility to research this? Like perhaps asking the question on SDN about which schools are open to gays? Wow - seems to me like that is EXACTLY what the OP was trying to do.

ok, fine, there are plenty of threads on this, you can do a search.

my comment was in response to those who are angry when adcoms don't seem open to their lifestyle.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

That's fine as long as you religious folk don't cry foul when a Jewish medical school forbids Christians from meeting on campus.

Though, something tells me there would be an urgent SDN posting by a concerned SDN'er (i.e. PsychoDoctor) if such discriminatory action were taken by a medical school.

Come on now. you're not as smart as you want people to think if you'd think for a second that i would attend a jewish med school. That would be pretty stupid of me; just as it would be for any group to attend a school or organization that goes against their beliefs or lifestyle.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Debates over abortion, stem cell research, End of Life decisions are all rooted in religion. If you are a particular religion you should believe the doctrine about said decisions.

Being gay, there are more personal issues (with ignorant pts or docs), but no real medical issues besides nature vs. nurture.

no real medical issues? what if they are HIV positive or have AIDS? There are some people who are uneducated and would be fearful of being touched by those who have the virus or disease.

 

[Psycho Doctor]

If gayness has nothing to do with a medical education, then neither does one's religion.

People go into medicine for different reasons, PsychoDoctor... It is utterly ridiculous for you to assert that dealing with one's sexual orientation can never inspire one to become a physician. Please respect other's beliefs, Psycho, then maybe, someday, I will respect yours.

interesting that i was the third person to comment on that, all with the same meaning. However mine was the only one that wasn't an attack. Interestingly enough it was me you chose to attack. what does that say?

BTW, for the record, my religion had/has nothing to do with me going into medicine. What ever made you think it did. You just use that as a rebuttal for every discussion on homosexuality.

 

[JohnnyOU]

Debates over abortion, stem cell research, End of Life decisions are all rooted in religion.
.

I totally disagree. I am anti-abortion in every case where the mother's life is not at risk, etc... the "convenience" abortions...whatever you want to call them. And it has NOTHING to do with religion. It is because all the scientific facts indicate that we are killing a living child (he/she smiles, moves around to get comfortable, sucks his thumb, plays with his feet, will play with and feel the other baby when they are twins, they respond to music and the parent's voice, you can tell if the baby is left handed or right, etc etc) Other than the cord, the baby is no different than it will be when delivered, just more further developed.

If the facts indicate this is nothing more than a parasite or tumor, and not a baby, fine..cut them up and do what you want with them. But it is beyond me how anyone can see all those scientific facts and say "Nah, it can't really alive" Anyone who says it's not even possible is in my opinion a liar or a total idiot. (then again some ppl wouldn't care even if we were killing babies) But Docs should be the first to question these abortions from A to Z and decide what they believe. Don't oppose it because of some priest and don't support it because of some women's group.

So I am against abortion except when it is to save the mom's life. Not because of anyone's religion, but because all the facts show we are really killing our own children.

On the other hand I am totally FOR the end-of-life stuff....someone is in pain and going to die soon anyway, with no way to help them other than ending their pain.... I say DO IT if that's what they want. Again, no religion involved. The facts dictate this to be the best choice imo.

Stem cells I don't know that much about, but I doubt I would be opposed to the research if I had all the facts.

 

[Flopotomist]

that's what i've heard also. Then why are homosexuals concerned about their sexuality hurting them? why do these threads come up so often?

Psycho, you are truly blessed that you have never lost a job, a housing opportunity, a friend, or a medical school acceptance based on some aspect of yourself that you can not change - but for gays and lesbians, we do not have the same luxery.

Most of us who are gay have faced open discrimination in our lives, and posts like this are ways for us to attempt to avoid this discrimination again. Unfortunately, we are the last group in society that it is acceptable to discriminate against. Imagine if the post had read "What schools are open to blacks" and people posted things like "If the private school wants to discriminate against them, then just don't apply there."

 

[getunconcsious]

Religion affects a ton more aspects of life than being homosexual does. Also, there is no laws stopping a private med school being chartered to foster gay health education.

I really try to refrain from the discussions but seriously. Just stick to schools that have no affiliation or public schools if you don't want to hear doctrine.

How the hell do you know that religion affects a ton more aspects of life than being homosexual? I definitely disagree with that.

BTW if that is your pic in your avatar, then I regret to inform you that you've lost the genetic lottery, at least with respect to looks.

 

[DrBowtie]

I totally disagree. I am anti-abortion in every case where the mother's life is not at risk, etc... the "convenience" abortions...whatever you want to call them. And it has NOTHING to do with religion. It is because all the scientific facts indicate that we are killing a living child (he/she smiles, moves around to get comfortable, sucks his thumb, plays with his feet, will play with and feel the other baby when they are twins, they respond to music and the parent's voice, you can tell if the baby is left handed or right, etc etc) Other than the cord, the baby is no different than it will be when delivered, just more further developed.

If the facts indicate this is nothing more than a parasite or tumor, and not a baby, fine..cut them up and do what you want with them. But it is beyond me how anyone can see all those scientific facts and say "Nah, it can't really alive" Anyone who says it's not even possible is in my opinion a liar or a total idiot. (then again some ppl wouldn't care even if we were killing babies) But Docs should be the first to question these abortions from A to Z and decide what they believe. Don't oppose it because of some priest and don't support it because of some women's group.

So I am against abortion except when it is to save the mom's life. Not because of anyone's religion, but because all the facts show we are really killing our own children.

On the other hand I am totally FOR the end-of-life stuff....someone is in pain and going to die soon anyway, with no way to help them other than ending their pain.... I say DO IT if that's what they want. Again, no religion involved. The facts dictate this to be the best choice imo.

Stem cells I don't know that much about, but I doubt I would be opposed to the research if I had all the facts.

The decision over where life begins is definitely rooted in religious teachings. You may not be aware or think it is but religion has an underlying hand in every moral decision.

 

[DrBowtie]

How the hell do you know that religion affects a ton more aspects of life than being homosexual? I definitely disagree with that.

BTW if that is your pic in your avatar, then I regret to inform you that you've lost the genetic lottery, at least with respect to looks.

All moral issues are rooted in religion, not in sexuality or even homosexuality.

 

[Flopotomist]

no real medical issues? what if they are HIV positive or have AIDS? There are some people who are uneducated and would be fearful of being touched by those who have the virus or disease.

I'm sorry, did you just make a generalization about gay people having AIDS? Are you promoting stereotypes here, or making rational arguments?

 

[DrBowtie]

no real medical issues? what if they are HIV positive or have AIDS? There are some people who are uneducated and would be fearful of being touched by those who have the virus or disease.

PD, AIDS and HIV is a general health issue. Straight people are just as biologically susceptible to contracting the disease as homosexuals are.

 

[Flopotomist]

The decision over where life begins is definitely rooted in religious teachings. You may not be aware or think it is but religion has an underlying hand in every moral decision.

I most strongly DISAGREE with this - morality can be argued to be derived from a number of places other than religion (Utilitarianism, Social Contract Theory, Kantian theory, Determinism, etc etc.)

 

[DrBowtie]

Flop, Sorry I should have clarified that the most common objection to abortion and such issues is religion related.

 

[Flopotomist]

Flop, Sorry I should have clarified that the most common objection to abortion and such issues is religion related.

Bummer, the philosophy major in me got all excited to debate about the origins of morality lol.