Are med schools really that vindictive?

[Samosas]

So i was online a day or two ago and read a post by some guy who was "blacklisted" and it made me wonder, are med schools really that vindictive that if you turn them down that they will make it impossible for you to get a degree (MD/DO-US)?
I mean I would take any acceptance I had but still if one were to turn down an acceptance does that give the med schools the power to put a scarlet letter on them?

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[GreenShirt]

If you get multiple acceptances, you have to turn some down. If you re-apply to a school you turned down, that indicates you weren't interested in their school, which might affect your admission, since they're looking for people who want to be at their institution.

 

[gujuDoc]

So i was online a day or two ago and read a post by some guy who was "blacklisted" and it made me wonder, are med schools really that vindictive that if you turn them down that they will make it impossible for you to get a degree (MD/DO-US)?
I mean I would take any acceptance I had but still if one were to turn down an acceptance does that give the med schools the power to put a scarlet letter on them?

Why did the guy get blacklisted?? If they go to that extreme, there's usually a major reason. I.e. the person was caught lying about something on their applications, caught cheating, caught doing something of that nature.

A few years ago this guy at USF told me a story about a guy who falsified that he got a chem award which he didn't get. Then he told a group of premeds that it was ok to lie and used the example of the chem award. Someone emailed the Dean about the incident and the guy and he was asked to reproduce the award. When he couldn't do it, they revoked his acceptance and also blacklisted him at other schools. It will happen if people do extreme things like that. Everyone embellishes a little about what they got out of something, but out right lying will get a person blacklisted. Maybe this was a case of such. Or maybe he did something else we don't know about.

 

[gujuDoc]

So i was online a day or two ago and read a post by some guy who was "blacklisted" and it made me wonder, are med schools really that vindictive that if you turn them down that they will make it impossible for you to get a degree (MD/DO-US)?
I mean I would take any acceptance I had but still if one were to turn down an acceptance does that give the med schools the power to put a scarlet letter on them?

Btw, people don't black list you for turning down an acceptance. They blacklist you for doing thing like that of which I mentioned in my other post.

 

[1Path]

They blacklist you for doing thing like that of which I mentioned in my other post.

There are also people that will blacklist you because they're evil jerks!

 

[foofish]

Why did the guy get blacklisted?? If they go to that extreme, there's usually a major reason. I.e. the person was caught lying about something on their applications, caught cheating, caught doing something of that nature.

I think the OP is talking about someone who applied through the Texas match, got into a DO, turned down the admission and reapplied the next year through the Texas match, and lo-and-behold some Texas schools were pissed off, assuming the poster was more interested in degree pedigree than becoming a physician (he wanted an allo school to make it "easier" to get a residency). Apparently a few admissions directors actually told the poster he had been blacklisted for turning down a match spot and then reapplying to the match....I think the blacklist was a Texas-school specific thing.

 

[HumbleMD]

I think the OP is talking about someone who applied through the Texas match, got into a DO, turned down the admission and reapplied the next year through the Texas match, and lo-and-behold some Texas schools were pissed off, assuming the poster was more interested in degree pedigree than becoming a physician (he wanted an allo school to make it "easier" to get a residency). Apparently a few admissions directors actually told the poster he had been blacklisted for turning down a match spot and then reapplying to the match....I think the blacklist was a Texas-school specific thing.

... but was then talking about going to the Caribbean. I wouldn't trust much of that poster...

 

[GreenShirt]

There's no public record of where you got into medical school. They don't put everything into a computer database for admissions offices to check where you've been accepted (maybe TX does, but I don't know too much about their system), so there's no possible way for you to be "blacklisted" for turning down another school. Only the school you've applied to knows if you've been accepted to their institution, which they can interpret as they wish.

 

[Doctor~Detroit]

There's no public record of where you got into medical school. They don't put everything into a computer database for admissions offices to check where you've been accepted .

actually they do, according to adcom members who post here. by a certain date schools that you apply to can see where you've been accepted.

 

[flabergaber]

There's no public record of where you got into medical school. They don't put everything into a computer database for admissions offices to check where you've been accepted (maybe TX does, but I don't know too much about their system), so there's no possible way for you to be "blacklisted" for turning down another school. Only the school you've applied to knows if you've been accepted to their institution, which they can interpret as they wish.

That's not entirely true. As of now medical schools that you have been accepted to know what other acceptances you hold. And I know that all schools are able to know what school you ultimately choose because Dr. Foxwell (Dean at UMB) told us once that he tracks to see where people they have accepted or rejected eventually go for his own purposes in understanding the competitiveness of the school. He specifically said that a list goes out of where students have decided to go.

I am not sure if it holds if you turn that school down but yea....

 

[pillowhead]

So i was online a day or two ago and read a post by some guy who was "blacklisted" and it made me wonder, are med schools really that vindictive that if you turn them down that they will make it impossible for you to get a degree (MD/DO-US)?
I mean I would take any acceptance I had but still if one were to turn down an acceptance does that give the med schools the power to put a scarlet letter on them?

YES, it is entirely possible for that to happen. Never apply to a school that you have absolutely zero intention of going to if you get in because if you find yourself in the position of only having one acceptance, you will need to go to that school. Turning down an acceptance to a US MD or DO school in order to "do better" the next time around comes across to adcoms as arrogant and in it for the wrong reasons. Rightly or wrongly, numerous premeds do this every year and screw themselves over not realizing what a bad idea this is.

 

[psipsina]

There's no public record of where you got into medical school. They don't put everything into a computer database for admissions offices to check where you've been accepted (maybe TX does, but I don't know too much about their system), so there's no possible way for you to be "blacklisted" for turning down another school. Only the school you've applied to knows if you've been accepted to their institution, which they can interpret as they wish.

After a certain date (I believe May 15th) schools can see all your other acceptances (to make sure that you aren't holding multiple spots), so that means that AMCAS is keeping track of where you got acceptances. So the next year when you apply again and AMCAS asks have you ever applied to medial school before you have to answer yes (because the system knows) and when it asks have you ever been accepted before you have to answer yes (because the system knows) so every future school will no that you had an acceptance and turned it down and will question your motives. The fact that AMCAS keeps track and asks these questions means that it does in fact have an impact on your application.

 

[VCMM414]

I strongly agree with pillowhead. My Kaplan instructor years ago warned us against doing exactly this, as he himself was an example of it. He waited a year, retook the MCAT and got a 38-40 (back when max verbal score was 13-15), but had a lot of difficulties with his second round application. I never found out if he eventually got in anywhere.

 

[neopentanol]

... but was then talking about going to the Caribbean. I wouldn't trust much of that poster...

Whoa, take it easy there. Those are pretty rash words. I am that poster, and why exactly am I less trustworthy for considering the Carribean if I feel like my chances are damaged here in the states for a bad decision I made to decline an acceptance? I chose all the schools on the Texas match system to apply to, as everyone does, planning to learn more while attending interviews. The interview, as everyone says, is both ways, but the Texas match system doesn't see it this way, if it matches you to a school, then you must go there. If you decide not to, as I now know, you are going to be scarred. If I had known this, or their line of reasoning, I would certainly not have turned down the acceptance. Let me add that the dean of my top choice school told me directly that I wasn't interviewed because my application came in late (due to the release of my MCAT scores), and by that time they had filled all their spots, but if I had applied early I would have had a good chance. Well what is to stop jolly ole me from thinking well hey, if I can apply early next year and get into my top choice allo school, rather than a DO school, I will wait the year. I made a malinformed decision to turn down an acceptance, and now I'm stuck in the mud for it. I don't see where you get off saying I shouldn't be trusted, it was an unwarranted attack.

 

[neopentanol]

... but was then talking about going to the Caribbean. I wouldn't trust much of that poster...

Whoa, take it easy there. Those are pretty rash words. I am that poster, and why exactly am I less trustworthy for considering the Carribean if I feel like my chances are damaged here in the states for a bad decision I made to decline an acceptance? I chose all the schools on the Texas match system to apply to, as everyone does, planning to learn more while attending interviews. The interview, as everyone knows, is both ways, but the Texas match system doesn't see it this way, if it matches you to a school, then you must go there. If you decide not to, as I now know, you are going to be scarred. If I had known this, or their line of reasoning, I would certainly not have turned down the acceptance. Let me add that the dean of my top choice school told me directly that I wasn't interviewed because my application came in late (due to the release of my MCAT scores), and by that time they had filled all their spots, but if I had applied early I would have had a good chance. Well what is to stop jolly ole me from thinking well hey, if I can apply early next year and get into my top choice allo school, rather than a DO school, I will wait the year. I made a malinformed decision to turn down an acceptance, and now I'm stuck in the mud for it. I don't see where you get off saying I shouldn't be trusted, it was an unwarranted attack.

 

[foofish]

Whoa, take it easy there. Those are pretty rash words. I am that poster, and why exactly am I less trustworthy for considering the Carribean if I feel like my chances are damaged here in the states for a bad decision I made to decline an acceptance?

I still vote for applying to schools in some of the other 49 states before resorting to the Caribbean...it's the seemingly desperate, and somewhat rational scramble to go to any med school, anywhere, this year tone of your original post that had some of us scratching our heads. If it's ease of getting into a competitive US allo residency that you're after, the Carib is *not* the way to go...

 

[pyrois]

A few years ago this guy at USF told me a story about a guy who falsified that he got a chem award which he didn't get. Then he told a group of premeds that it was ok to lie and used the example of the chem award. Someone emailed the Dean about the incident and the guy and he was asked to reproduce the award. When he couldn't do it, they revoked his acceptance and also blacklisted him at other schools. It will happen if people do extreme things like that. Everyone embellishes a little about what they got out of something, but out right lying will get a person blacklisted. Maybe this was a case of such. Or maybe he did something else we don't know about.

Although the lying guy wasn't exactly in the right, contacting the dean of admissions of a school that some guy was accepted at after he told a dumb frat party story is kind of gunnerish

 

[Tired Pigeon]

Although the lying guy wasn't exactly in the right, contacting the dean of admissions of a school that some guy was accepted at after he told a dumb frat party story is kind of gunnerish

The guy LIED, and his lie helped him get into medical school. Given that admission is competitive at all medical schools, it necessarily follows that another, more deserving applicant was denied a seat in that class because of this guy's lack of integrity. I try to live my life with integrity and when I see people who lie and cheat to get into (and through) medical school it makes me sick. I'm glad it came back to bite him in the ass. I think there was nothing wrong with reporting him, and that belief has nothing to do with being 'gunnerish'.

 

[Kfire326]

Why did the guy get blacklisted?? If they go to that extreme, there's usually a major reason. I.e. the person was caught lying about something on their applications, caught cheating, caught doing something of that nature.

A few years ago this guy at USF told me a story about a guy who falsified that he got a chem award which he didn't get. Then he told a group of premeds that it was ok to lie and used the example of the chem award. Someone emailed the Dean about the incident and the guy and he was asked to reproduce the award. When he couldn't do it, they revoked his acceptance and also blacklisted him at other schools. It will happen if people do extreme things like that. Everyone embellishes a little about what they got out of something, but out right lying will get a person blacklisted. Maybe this was a case of such. Or maybe he did something else we don't know about.

Although the lying guy wasn't exactly in the right, contacting the dean of admissions of a school that some guy was accepted at after he told a dumb frat party story is kind of gunnerish

But it wasn't a dumb frat party story! He told people applying to medical school that it was okay to lie on their application. I think turning him in was the ethical thing to do. That's not gunnerish at all.

 

[Kfire326]

The guy LIED, and his lie helped him get into medical school. Given that admission is competitive at all medical schools, it necessarily follows that another, more deserving applicant was denied a seat in that class because of this guy's lack of integrity. I try to live my life with integrity and when I see people who lie and cheat to get into (and through) medical school it makes me sick. I'm glad it came back to bite him in the ass. I think there was nothing wrong with reporting him, and that belief has nothing to do with being 'gunnerish'.

 

[NonTradMed]

I was not aware that they actually have a central database to track where you've been accepted but I guess it makes some sense given that the entire application process is now centralized (and it may explain why I started getting 'congratulations on your acceptance' ads when I got in).

Rule of thumb is, don't turn down an acceptance unless you don't want to go to med school or have a good reason for not going and they can't let you defer.

 

[gujuDoc]

REL of USF COM said that they don't have your DO acceptances in hand if you've been accepted to MD schools, just where you've been accepted MD wise. I don't know if the Republica de Texas is different because they have their own system. But who knows.

 

[gujuDoc]

The guy LIED, and his lie helped him get into medical school. Given that admission is competitive at all medical schools, it necessarily follows that another, more deserving applicant was denied a seat in that class because of this guy's lack of integrity. I try to live my life with integrity and when I see people who lie and cheat to get into (and through) medical school it makes me sick. I'm glad it came back to bite him in the ass. I think there was nothing wrong with reporting him, and that belief has nothing to do with being 'gunnerish'.

Not only that, but the same guy was encouraging other premeds to lie. That is not the qualities of a good physician.

 

[8744]

But it wasn't a dumb frat party story! He told people applying to medical school that it was okay to lie on their application. I think turning him in was the ethical thing to do. That's not gunnerish at all.

Sweet sister Mary, Joseph, and all the saints in heaven! That is one of the most gunnerish things you can possibly do and in most circles, such a person would be labled a snitch and become a pariah, lower than an outcast dog.

As if everybody doesn't lie on their applications. If they didn't, primary care would be the hot career right now and Dermatology would be full of Pakistani nephrology attendings, desperate for a foothold in the United States. It is not only OK to lie on your application but nowadays, the lying has been institutionalized. What is a junket to Africa to hold a dying baby or two except a sophisticated lie intended to convince an admission officer that you actually give a rat's ass?

Good Lord. Are you going to turn in your classmates if you catch them looking at porn on school computers?

 

[8744]

In other words, medical school admission has become, at least from listening to you guys, such an exercise in credential fluffing, CV buffing, and emotional masturbation that any normal person without the time for the buffing and the tugging would have to use a little chicanery to bypass the obstacles thrown in his path if he wants to crash yer' stinking party.

The only mistake the poor guy who got ratted out made was not keeping his cake hole shut.

 

[NonTradMed]

Lying on your application is kind of bad, and if I was a dean of admissions, I wouldn't take it lightly either.

Of course, plenty of people lie on their CV. I knew a couple of people who pretended to be each other's supervisor for job interviews to other companies. And one even added some stuff on his resume that he never did to make himself more marketable. Personally, I don't know why anyone would do that because it's just one more thing that someone can trace back to you and call you out on.

It's probably a bit gunnerish for the guy to call up the dean (because the guy's acceptance doesn't affect the premeds') but I'm not crying about it.

Liars who get called out don't get much sympathy here.

 

[gujuDoc]

In other words, medical school admission has become, at least from listening to you guys, such an exercise in credential fluffing, CV buffing, and emotional masturbation that any normal person without the time for the buffing and the tugging would have to use a little chicanery to bypass the obstacles thrown in his path if he wants to crash yer' stinking party.

The only mistake the poor guy who got ratted out made was not keeping his cake hole shut.

I don't think the worst part was even the unethical behavior he used, but the fact that when you do such things you should never go out of your way to advertise to others to do the same using the examples of your own stupidity. That's just common sense.

I think its as you said a long time ago, there's one thing to embellish but to say you did an activity which you never did in the first place is another.

 

[gujuDoc]

Also, I don't think it was gunnerish of the guy who turned in him because that person wasn't applying in the same cycle as he was.

 

[evade]

What is a junket to Africa to hold a dying baby or two except a sophisticated lie intended to convince an admission officer that you actually give a rat's ass?

Trips like that annoy me like nothing else in this world, and there's nothing that irritates me more than hearing the blather that comes out of peoples' mouths when they discuss how they "helped those poor unfortunate people." Sorry, but if you are a premed and you spent a month in Africa staring cluelessly at patients in their hospitals, you're not helping anyone but yourself. I've not yet had the opportunity to interview an applicant with such an excursion on their resume, but when I do (and it is a when, not an if these days), you can be sure I won't look upon it terribly favorably.

People with real skills who actually accomplish things in needy places are of course completely and totally exempt from my wrath.

 

[gujuDoc]

Trips like that annoy me like nothing else in this world, and there's nothing that irritates me more than hearing the blather that comes out of peoples' mouths when they discuss how they "helped those poor unfortunate people." Sorry, but if you are a premed and you spent a month in Africa staring cluelessly at patients in their hospitals, you're not helping anyone but yourself. I've not yet had the opportunity to interview an applicant with such an excursion on their resume, but when I do (and it is a when, not an if these days), you can be sure I won't look upon it terribly favorably.

People with real skills who actually accomplish things in needy places are of course completely and totally exempt from my wrath.

I agree. I think the only one time I knew of someone who wasn't there in a place like Haiti for resume padding was with this girl at USF COM. In her case, her father had a long term commitment to the nonprofit organization running the business and communications side of things. She was using her communications degree to help her father with the organization when she came back to pursue medicine but she never went there to claim that she had gotten tons of clinical experience. She did it because of other reasons and that just casually led to medicine. In her case, I could see her showing long term Paul Farmer type of commitment to going back there and helping the organization because her father and husband play a big role on the non medical side of things with the organization she did work with.

Outside of that, several other premeds that I know just used that to benefit them more then the doctors because they wanted to get more hands on and play doctor. While I acknowledge that might not be everyone's story, it sure is a lot of people I have met on here and out of here. There are few that seem truly sincere and genuine about such projects. Most people do it because the med school admissions like it.

Oh well.