Are my Board Scores too low for the East Coast programs?

[mandimd]

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I have well rounded application, Lots of volunteer experience, research experience however no publications, honors in a number of clerkships during my 3rd year as well as a number of honors and awards. I also have very strong letters of recommendation. I am graduating from a midwest school. My board scores though, SUCK! 197 on step I and i'm in the bottom 50% of my class. I'm applying to programs mostly in the southern states and a few scattered:
Jackson-Memorial FL
U of Alabama
Vanderbilt
Wash U
University of Maryland
Emory
UT Southwestern
Duke
Baylor
University of Washington
UCSF
UCSD
UCI
UCLA
and I was wondering if it is totally pointless to apply to places like:

JHU
MGH
Columbia
BWH

Any feedback on these schools as well as the ones listed above would be helpful. I know my board scores are very low, however the rest of my application is strong and I'm a great interviewer.

Thanx

 

[Bobblehead]

From what I remember UCSF, WashU, UW and Duke are more selective in offering interviews. Also you generally will never "land" a program due to an interview but you can most certainly lose your place on the rank list. This is particularly true if you end up making an ass of yourself somehow at the dinner the night before the interview. Bottom line though is apply everywhere you'd conceivably want to go and live. The worst they can say is no.

 

[doc05]

east coast programs?? bottom 50% and 197, I think vandy, duke, baylor,ucla, ucsf might also be wishful thinking. talk with your pd.

 

[MustafaMond]

east coast programs?? bottom 50% and 197, I think vandy, duke, baylor,ucla, ucsf might also be wishful thinking. talk with your pd.

good advice.
You need to apply to some back-ups too.

 

[irlandesa]

if you don't mind my asking, how did your school rank you in the bottom 50% of your class if you honored at least a few clerkships? I guess everyone has a different system.. anyway, you do sound like a strong applicant, but many of the programs you listed are very competitive regardless of whether or not you have a 197 or a 250 on the boards. I'd suggest adding some programs that are strong but aren't so high-profile in the South (assuming you really want to go there) like MUSC, Tulane, Wake Forest, UF, and UVa. All are excellent programs that will take you anywhere you want to go. In the northeast, BIDMC and BUMC are not up there with MGH and Brigham in the rankings, but also are very strong programs. oh yeah, taking Step 2 pretty soon and doing well may help out, and strong letters of rec should go a LONG way in compensating for the board score (which really isn't a big deal in IM). Good luck!

 

[mandimd]

THANK YOU IRLANDESA!
That was a positive response and i appreciate that 🙂
Just out of curiosity, what is BIDMC, and BUMC?
Thanx for the other reccomendations of strong schools, I am going to apply to Tulane and U of S. FL, and UVa is a good idea as well.

Can you reccomend some more strong programs in the northeast, i'm really wanting to go somewhere in the south, warm weather, but i think it would be a good idea to consider other places as well.

Thanx

 

[GeddyLee]

if you don't mind my asking, how did your school rank you in the bottom 50% of your class if you honored at least a few clerkships? I guess everyone has a different system.. anyway, you do sound like a strong applicant, but many of the programs you listed are very competitive regardless of whether or not you have a 197 or a 250 on the boards. I'd suggest adding some programs that are strong but aren't so high-profile in the South (assuming you really want to go there) like MUSC, Tulane, Wake Forest, UF, and UVa. All are excellent programs that will take you anywhere you want to go. In the northeast, BIDMC and BUMC are not up there with MGH and Brigham in the rankings, but also are very strong programs. oh yeah, taking Step 2 pretty soon and doing well may help out, and strong letters of rec should go a LONG way in compensating for the board score (which really isn't a big deal in IM). Good luck!

Yeah..I'm curious about his too. Also, how are you honoring courses when you scored well below average on step I??

 

[Bobblehead]

BIDMC = Beth Israel Deaconess medical center, one of the three Harvard teaching hospitals (Mass General, Brigham)
BUMC = Boston University Medical Center, one of the other major teaching hospitals in Boston

The last university based program would be Tufts/NEMC (New England Medical Center) although someone else can probably tell you about their general reputation. I would not discount NEMC or BUMC in comparison to the Harvard hospitals. BUMC puts out excellent medicine residents.

 

[irlandesa]

BIDMC = Beth Israel Deaconess medical center, one of the three Harvard teaching hospitals (Mass General, Brigham)
BUMC = Boston University Medical Center, one of the other major teaching hospitals in Boston

The last university based program would be Tufts/NEMC (New England Medical Center) although someone else can probably tell you about their general reputation. I would not discount NEMC or BUMC in comparison to the Harvard hospitals. BUMC puts out excellent medicine residents.

yes, BUMC is excellent, I'm hoping to get a chance a spot there myself, and they are good for producing generalists and primary care physicians as well as specialists (since you asked on another thread, mandi). NEMC is very good for people seeking specialization, esp. in GI or Nephrology, but I do know several awesome Gen Med docs who graduated from there as well. I go to Tufts and I feel that NEMC tends to be a more high-stress environment than most of the other Boston programs (BU, Lahey Clinic in Burlington, BIDMC, BWH). I can't say much about their medicine program since I did my Med clerkship at Faulkner with the BWH residents 😍 but I don't think you can go wrong up here. The 2 Brown programs(Rhode Island Hospital and Memorial Hosp. of RI in Pawtucket) are reputed to be strong programs as well, and though U Mass' reputation suffers b/c of the proximity to the Boston powerhouse programs, I've heard many good things.

 

[nymed32]

if you don't mind my asking, how did your school rank you in the bottom 50% of your class if you honored at least a few clerkships? I guess everyone has a different system.. anyway, you do sound like a strong applicant, but many of the programs you listed are very competitive regardless of whether or not you have a 197 or a 250 on the boards. I'd suggest adding some programs that are strong but aren't so high-profile in the South (assuming you really want to go there) like MUSC, Tulane, Wake Forest, UF, and UVa. All are excellent programs that will take you anywhere you want to go. In the northeast, BIDMC and BUMC are not up there with MGH and Brigham in the rankings, but also are very strong programs. oh yeah, taking Step 2 pretty soon and doing well may help out, and strong letters of rec should go a LONG way in compensating for the board score (which really isn't a big deal in IM). Good luck!

On what basis can you say UVA is lower profile than any of the other major southern programs? Last year, as an applicant, I received interviews at UVa, Vandy, Baylor, Wash U, Jackson Memorial, and Emory and additionally received a e-mails from the program directors at JMH and Vandy indicating that I was going to be ranked "very highly." Nonetheless, I chose UVA as my top choice. As a resident at UVA, I can tell you that we have categorical residents from Duke, Penn, U Wash, Vanderbilt, NYU, U Rochester, UNC and other top 25 schools. In my intern class of 25 categorical residents, 9 are AOA and 3 are Phd's. Also, UVa is one of the top programs in the country endocrine and ID. Uva doesn't rank with Duke, but I strongly believe it is as competitive as any of the other southern programs which you deem to be more higher profile.

 

[irlandesa]

On what basis can you say UVA is lower profile than any of the other major southern programs? Last year, as an applicant, I received interviews at UVa, Vandy, Baylor, Wash U, Jackson Memorial, and Emory and additionally received a e-mails from the program directors at JMH and Vandy indicating that I was going to be ranked "very highly." Nonetheless, I chose UVA as my top choice. As a resident at UVA, I can tell you that we have categorical residents from Duke, Penn, U Wash, Vanderbilt, NYU, U Rochester, UNC and other top 25 schools. In my intern class of 25 categorical residents, 9 are AOA and 3 are Phd's. Also, UVa is one of the top programs in the country endocrine and ID. Uva doesn't rank with Duke, but I strongly believe it is as competitive as any of the other southern programs which you deem to be more higher profile.

whoa, no need to be defensive, UVa is VERY strong and well-regarded, and I never said otherwise. I don't believe I even said that it was less competitive than Emory and Baylor, I just meant that it is less competitive than some of the big guns like UCSF and Duke that the original applicant was thinking of applying to, and it most certainly is less competitive than BWH, JHU, etc. Hey, as I mentioned in some of my other posts on the IM forum, I am not applying to any schools in the league of UVa myself (except BIDMC b/c I live right up the street); as a non-AOA applicant I don't care that much about prestige. I am even applying {gasp} to programs that historically have had trouble filling like Baystate and Maine Medical.

 

[Doc Oc]

Yeah..I'm curious about his too. Also, how are you honoring courses when you scored well below average on step I??

huh??

 

[mandimd]

had a bad day when step I came along. . . i guess.

 

[kem]

Yeah..I'm curious about his too. Also, how are you honoring courses when you scored well below average on step I??

I have to defend all of us who "scored well below average" on step I.

Doing well on step 1 has to do with whether or not you can memorize facts. Doing well on the wards is about being enthusiastic, wanting to be there, and problem-solving skills. Some people just learn better when they see the patient or do the procedure, rather than just learning it in a book.

Thank goodness doctors don't just do multiple choice questions all day.

Good luck mandimd!

 

[fourthyearmed]

Yeah..I'm curious about his too. Also, how are you honoring courses when you scored well below average on step I??

Doing well during the first two years/on Step 1 is totally unrelated to doing well during the clinical years. I did average on Step 1 but made As on almost all my clinical rotations and above average on Step 2. Some people are better with basic sciences while others are better with clinical knowledge and skills, not to mention people skills! I have actually found that the people who do great during the first two years are not the ones that excel on the wards.

 

[avendesora]

Yah, I think you might have a tough time at most of those places you mentioned. From experience, IM is generally not competitive, but the people vying for the spots at the top 20-30 programs ARE competitive (ie could match any specialty). Go ahead and apply, but have some backups in mind.

Without a doubt, you can match at a decent university program, but most of the ones you mentioned are pretty tough. I know specifically that I, coming from a "midwest medical school" and with better numbers, did not get interviews at some of the ones on your list (Duke, UWash, UCSD). Sad but true, coming from the midwest is a disadvantage.

It's never pointless to apply, its just pointless to be unrealistic.

Best of luck.

 

[PeterY]

what grade did you get in your medicine clerkship? this is a crucial part in determining how competitive you are to IM residencies. that being said, a step 1 score of <200 is pretty low and i think a lot of programs will consider you a board risk when you take your medicine boards. also with that score i think that you will not meet the minimium cutoffs for some of the programs that you have listed.

i would suggest that you talk with the program director at your school to see where you stand and what programs you would be competitive at.

the only advice i can offer is to take step 2 early and have your score ready by interview time. study hard and make sure you do significantly better. also if you did not honor your 3rd year medicine clerkship i would suggest doing a medicine subinternship or other solid medicine elective and try to honor that. away rotations may also help and show these programs that you are a much better canidate in person.

good luck with everything.

Peter

 

[kem]

As PeterY said, study hard for Step 2. Just because you did <200 on Step 1, doesn't mean you can't do well on Step 2.

I did slightly worse than you on Step 1 and went up 47 points on Step 2.

YOU CAN DO IT! 🙂

-kem