Are Residnet/Fellow same as students?

[sam1999]

Are resident/fellow considered as students? or can you claim yourself as student?

Resident and fellow students are paid but so as graduate students doing PhD work but they are considered students.

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[BADMD]

It depends on exactly what you want to claim/be claimed for, but generally, for IRS purposes, no.

 

[sam1999]

There 2 issues here.

For federal taxes, some of taxes (I forget which one, ss or medicare) are not deducted from resident or fellow's salary. Is it not true?

Can you claim yourself student for state taxes?

 

[Law2Doc]

There 2 issues here.

For federal taxes, some of taxes (I forget which one, ss or medicare) are not deducted from resident or fellow's salary. Is it not true?

Can you claim yourself student for state taxes?

You are not a student for any tax purposes. You have your degree. You receive a salary from which taxes will be withheld. Sorry, but the fact that you are in training is not the equivalent to being in school.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Are resident/fellow considered as students? or can you claim yourself as student?

Resident and fellow students are paid but so as graduate students doing PhD work but they are considered students.

Graduate students also get taxes withheld. I pay federal, state, city, and "occupation" tax. Thankfully, they do not withhold social security or medicare.

A resident is an employee and is liable for ALL taxes.

 

[sam1999]

You are not a student for any tax purposes. You have your degree. You receive a salary from which taxes will be withheld. Sorry, but the fact that you are in training is not the equivalent to being in school.

It is not a simple answer.


http://old.mndaily.com/articles/2007/01/16/70312

As I heard more recently ruling went in the favor of Mayo clinic. There are 2 questions here.

1. Whether Residents/Fellows are students?
2. Are they required to pay SS taxes?

Ruling only address to 2nd question. That's why I asking this question to other residents/fellows how do you claim yourself?

 

[sam1999]

You guys are confusing my question = not paying taxes at all. This is not what I was asking.

You have to pay Federal taxes. It is clear. Whole rationale for not paying SS or medicare taxes is Residents are considered students because money they are getting is considered stipend even though they work more than 40 hours/week.

I am asking 2 different question.

1. Do you think you are student similar to graduate students
2. Do you claim yourself as student for state taxes?

 

[colbgw02]

1. No.
2. No.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

As you mention, the situation is not at all clear. What you need to do about it is completely clear, however.

First, some history. Two resources: This summary written by a law firm, and Baylor's web site which reviews the most up to date information.

Interestingly, the recent decision against Mayo "splits" the circuits (something the first article suggested was very unlikely) and theoretically opens a path to the SCOTUS.

Anyway, what to do about it is easy. You can't control FICA payments. Either your program takes them out of your paycheck, or they don't. You can't claim them back on your 1040. In fact, the only one who can get them back is your residency program, and then they can pass them on to you. So, most programs continue to pay FICA and hope for a big fat refund in the future.

As for state taxes, that will differ between the states and there is no one answer. However, the issue above is being argued for the "student exemption" for FICA only, so the answer is probably no.

 

[sam1999]

aprogramdirector

thanks for detailed message.

Lets say you live in no state tax state, and now got residency in a high state tax state but you have other income like dividends, rental income from your home (no state tax state) so can you claim yourself as student in your new state where you are doing residency so that you can shelter that other income?

 

[Top Gun]

Are resident/fellow considered as students? or can you claim yourself as student?

Resident and fellow students are paid but so as graduate students doing PhD work but they are considered students.

No. Residency is more like on-the-job training. Its different from being a student. Two reasons. One, you actually get paid taxable income. Federal, state, and local taxes come out of my income. Two, you have much more responsibility than a student.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

aprogramdirector

thanks for detailed message.

Lets say you live in no state tax state, and now got residency in a high state tax state but you have other income like dividends, rental income from your home (no state tax state) so can you claim yourself as student in your new state where you are doing residency so that you can shelter that other income?

In general, to try and do this is illegal. If you live in the "new state", all income no matter what the source is likely taxable in that state. You need to talk to a tax specialist if you want to try to shelter the other income, by starting a corporation or LLP to hold your rental property for example -- but that usually opens you up to corporate taxes and other liabilities.

If your residency is close to a border and you actually live in your "home state" and work in your "new state", then the answer is "it depends on the states" but usually your new state will find a way to get it's pound of flesh.

 

[Law2Doc]

...

If your residency is close to a border and you actually live in your "home state" and work in your "new state", then the answer is "it depends on the states" but usually your new state will find a way to get it's pound of flesh.

In the "on the border" situation, more often than not, you will end up with tax liability and credits for tax paid that offset and you end up simply paying one state's taxes and getting that same state's deductions. You will not get to shelter anything.

I wouldn't bet on the whole getting treated as a student notion or finding a way to benefit taxwise. You are getting a paycheck, and from it your program is withholding. You have tax debt at the federal, state and local levels. Welcome to the work force. Schooltime is over.