Are some 4th year rotation sites closed to DO students?

[Echinoidea]

Hi
I'm an incoming DO student for the class of 2008. Is it true that some teaching hospitals do not allow 4th year elective rotations by DO students? I seem to remember seeing this somewhere but I don't know if its hearsay or what. I know its a long way off, but I might like to do rotations at allopathic institutions where I would want to do a residency, specifically the SUNYs and other New York state hospitals for EM.
Thanks
Ech

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[Dr JPH]

I have heard this from some upper classmen on here, however when prompted for the names of the facilities they were unable to give more information. With that said, I am sure there are still some academic institutions out there that may be biased and shun DOs from doing rotations. But if this were true...are there DOs on staff there? Are there DOs with admitting privelages to these facilities? Are there DOs in their residency programs? Do they accept applications from DOs for their residency programs?

Seems to me that if they won't allow DO students to rotate through, then they would have to refuse the entire osteopathic community all the way up the ladder. I don't think a hospital would be able to turn away a capable DO student for an elective rotation without some sort of legal recourse.

 

[Seaglass]

I would say that many Allo institutions may not allow DO's for core rotations (med, surg, etc) since many places have barely enough room for their own students, but most all should allow students for elective rotations.

Casey

 

[DireWolf]

There are still some institutions that do not allow D.O.s to rotate at their hospitals at all. However, these same institutions do have D.O.s in their residency programs. It is ironic but true nonetheless. There was a brief discussion about this in the ophthalmology forum. I have researched many programs and have already come up with a few that will not allow D.O.s to rotate there under any circumstances. One example from the previous discussion is the University of Iowa.

 

[Molly Maquire]

Here's another concrete example:

As of last year, St. Vincent's Medical Center in NYC would not allow DOs to do a 4th year Anesthesia elective. Interestingly, they do accept DOs into the residency program.


I'm sure there are other examples.

 

[Green912]

Originally posted by Molly Maquire
Here's another concrete example:

As of last year, St. Vincent's Medical Center in NYC would not allow DOs to do a 4th year Anesthesia elective. Interestingly, they do accept DOs into the residency program.


I'm sure there are other examples.

I wonder if this, and examples like it, are purely D.O. restrictions or those of all students. When hospitals are feeling the financial pinch education is often one of the first areas to get cut-back.

 

[Idiopathic]

There are hospitals that will not allow non-LCME students to get credit for rotating. This does allow the opportunity for 'no hands-on, no credit, no letter" rotations, but who wants those? And yes, some of these programs do have DO's (and IMG's) in their residencies, so it doesnt make much sense. It may have more to do with the affiliated college requirements than the residency program.

 

[DrMom]

Originally posted by Idiopathic
There are hospitals that will not allow non-LCME students to get credit for rotating. This does allow the opportunity for 'no hands-on, no credit, no letter" rotations, but who wants those? And yes, some of these programs do have DO's (and IMG's) in their residencies, so it doesnt make much sense. It may have more to do with the affiliated college requirements than the residency program.

Vandy does this...at least in Emergency Medicine. Says so on their website.

 

[DOtobe]

I tried to set up a rotation at Children's Hospital in Pittsburgh (when I still thought I wanted to do peds) and was told "we don't take DO students for rotations." I don't think they have any DO residents, either. So there definitely are hospitals that won't take DO students.

 

[DireWolf]

Originally posted by DrMom
Vandy does this...at least in Emergency Medicine. Says so on their website.

You're correct. Vandy is one of the programs I called, and they do not accept D.O. students for rotations in any specialty.

 

[kristing]

Originally posted by DOtobe
I tried to set up a rotation at Children's Hospital in Pittsburgh (when I still thought I wanted to do peds) and was told "we don't take DO students for rotations." I don't think they have any DO residents, either. So there definitely are hospitals that won't take DO students.

Not true. AZCOM placed a student there for residency. First DO they took, apparently.

 

[Robz]

A question I had is if they accept DO physicians as residents, do they have a legal stance to reject DO from rotation other than "we do not accept DO rotational students". It seems to me like you have to be from an LCME only school to legaly do a rotation, but is this set in stone because I believe other allopathic programs do accept students. Thoughs?

 

[DOtobe]

Originally posted by kristing
Not true. AZCOM placed a student there for residency. First DO they took, apparently.

So at least they aren't completely DO phobic...

 

[UNEOSTEO]

In NYC, I've found that Hospital for Special Surgery and St. Vincent's CMC/NYMC do not allow 3rd/4th yr DO students to do electives at their hospitals. They do accept US MD students only. I've spoken to some of the PD's at these hospitals and they stated that they accept DO applicants to their residency programs.


The SUNY's accept DO students in their 4th year for elective rotations.

Schools such as NYU/Mt. Sinai/Downstate/Stony Brook/Columbia P&S, Albert Einstein, etc. have applications for students from LCME approved schools and FMG's. For elective application purposes, DO students are considered "LCME" and should use that application. (This is directly from the above institutions' student affairs/med ed offices)

 

[ribsandbbqbeef]

I graduated from AECOM. Einstein takes DO students for 4th yr electives, but not for core stuff. Einstein however gives preference to their own students, then other allo applicants, and whatever spots are left are given to DO students. A lot of allo places are like this. So it may not be that they don't accept DOs for electives, but usually by the time they take all the MD students, no spots are left for DOs.

Why don't you just do electives at DO hospitals if they're the same quality & caliber as MD hospitals?

 

[DrSmiles]

Why don't you just do electives at DO hospitals if they're the same quality & caliber as MD hospitals?

Unfortunately this is easier said than done. While many DO students will do their electives at superb DO hospitals, there are simply not as many DO hospitals as there are MD hospitals. Furthermore, the DO hospitals appear to be clustered in certain geographic areas. So if I wanted to do a residency in Nebraska, for example, it would be in my better interest to try to do a rotation in my 4th yr at a MD hospital in Nebraska where I want to do my residency, since there isn't a DO hospital located in Nebraska. It just means a little bit more extra leg work for the DO student to determine if that MD hospital will allow DO students to do a rotation there. Some do, some don't. I think for the most part, it is pretty easy to find an institution that will let you do an elective in the geographic area you desire.

 

[larryj]

Hi
I'm an incoming DO student for the class of 2008. Is it true that some teaching hospitals do not allow 4th year elective rotations by DO students? I seem to remember seeing this somewhere but I don't know if its hearsay or what. I know its a long way off, but I might like to do rotations at allopathic institutions where I would want to do a residency, specifically the SUNYs and other New York state hospitals for EM.
Thanks
Ech

University of Iowa ( I believe a few have snuck in a back door, but FEW... probably with an inside connection?)

Dartmouth (unless you are a NH legal resident? I think I remember reading)