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chicksdigdocs

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I'm feeling worse and worse about this pre-medicine crap.
If I end up going to Ross or something, how bad of a position will that put me when I apply for residency (in let's say anesthesiology).
 

etsuprinthead

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my pcp went to a carribean med school and is now finishing a residency at quillen com -- it's not an ideal residency, perhaps, but she got one. i don't know any other details though, about how she did in med school or how long it took to get a residency. she's a darn good doc though.
 

hipatknight

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you will get into residency programs, but it will be difficult. you might not get into your No. 1 choice.
 
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bigdog8829

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I'm not sure in "how bad" of a spot. I mean if you go to Ross and get a 250 on the step 1 you should be fine. but I mean how many people really do that, esp tho at carribean schools. very very few.
i have friends in the carribean, india, poland, even hungary all doing some type of medicine program. in the end they still have to pass boards. I know one kid who is sitting around still trying to pass after 2.5 years of trying!
also, in residencies as a generalization they take U.S. grads first. if 2 people have the same stats but one is a carrib grad; the U.S. one is most likey to get the spot.
Not sure how much of this is true, but thats my understanding of it.
 

whyadoctor

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i know of 3 doctors who went to carribean med schools...all of them are working at respectable places (one at UCI medical center and other at UCLA medical center), and earning good money. i think it depends on how hard you are willing to work and how much time you are willing to dedicate to medicine. Do well on the boards, get good grades, and you should get a residency...some connections wouldn't hurt either :)
 

Disinence2

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For me its the idea of leaving the US, trying to adjust while studying as hard as you possibly can. Personally ide only go carribean after multiple failed attempts at US MD or DO programs
 

Robizzle

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Can't be that bad, look at their study areas!

carribean.jpg
 

Law2Doc

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I'm feeling worse and worse about this pre-medicine crap.
If I end up going to Ross or something, how bad of a position will that put me when I apply for residency (in let's say anesthesiology).

It's a harder road no matter how you look at it. Lots of people buckle down and make the most of this second chance to become a physician, and do fine. But attrition is high at most caribbean schools.
 

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i know of 3 doctors who went to carribean med schools...

Be careful with anecdotal evidence. Keep in mind that although one may know 2 or 3 doctors from the Caribbean practicing at UCI, the other 1200 medical faculty there did not.

It is unlikely that you'd find a single Caribbean graduate in a top 20 school (arbitrarily chosen ranking range).
 

johnnydrama

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Yes, the Caribbeans are that bad. The majority of them were set up recently to prey on the hopes and $$$ of US pre-meds who were having trouble getting into US schools. Most of the people accepted will not graduate, and (I'm not sure of the exact stats but...) a good portion of the people who do graduate never pass the boards. I don't want to offend any DOs here, but the generally accepted wisdom is that you first try to get into an MD program, failing that go for a DO, and failing that go to the Caribbean. Most residency programs will make that assumption about your qualifications depending on where you go. Personally, I would reconsider my career plans if I could not make it into an allopathic program in the United States after a couple of tries.
 

scgroat

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johnnydrama, you appear to be nothing but drama. You are making baseless assumptions in an attempt to invalidate all Caribbean schools. In fact, statistics say otherwise for the more reputable Caribbean schools. Sure, they're second chance schools, but maybe you ought to be the one changing career options with that attitude. Clearly, you have gotten by via academic prowess, but that's only part of becoming a good doc.
 

Funky

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should i get the popcorn for this thread?
 

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this is heating up very nicely. I like the DO-MD-Carribean bizzare love triangle. This is hot...

I do know some solid physisicans who went to Ross, one who was resident of the year 2 years in a row in her residency program. Also, I hear the sand flies are REALLY bad in Dominca.

Anyway, please continue with the flogging... didnt mean to interupt.
 
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whyadoctor

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hey pyrois,
i've discussed this with many people at length, and most of them say the same thing as you "those are just the exceptions"...well my answer is, be the darn exception then! if you're willing to bust your behind then you can get wherever you want. a good doctor is not one who went to a good school and doesn't know jack, a good doctor is one who knows his stuff and can deal with patients. i'd rather be the former.
and just in case you're wondering, i've been accepted to us med schools so i have no personal bias for carribean schools...this is just what i think
 

Disinence2

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You have to take into consideration the nature of the poeple going into US MD schools Vs. Carribean.

If you don't have what it takes to get into a US MD or DO school, then part of me says that you don't have what it takes to be a "good" doctor. The Caribbean is great for poeple who might have something like a past criminal record/crazy circumstance that will keep them out of a US school, but are still hard working studious poeple.

After going through this process i would like to make a claim that will probably be attacked here.

It is NOT as difficult as poeple make it seem to get into a US MD or DO program. Yes its incredably difficult to get into a top 20 or even top 50 school.... But to get into ANY med school, somewhere in US, Should be easily accomplished by someone with reasonable intelligence and perseverence in less than 3 rounds of applications.
 

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You have to take into consideration the nature of the poeple going into US MD schools Vs. Carribean.

If you don't have what it takes to get into a US MD or DO school, then part of me says that you don't have what it takes to be a "good" doctor. The Caribbean is great for poeple who might have something like a past criminal record/crazy circumstance that will keep them out of a US school, but are still hard working studious poeple.

After going through this process i would like to make a claim that will probably be attacked here.

It is NOT as difficult as poeple make it seem to get into a US MD or DO program. Yes its incredably difficult to get into a top 20 or even top 50 school.... But to get into ANY med school, somewhere in US, Should be easily accomplished by someone with reasonable intelligence and perseverence in less than 3 rounds of applications.

Yea, but what about the people who DO have the ability and intelligence, but were too immature in undergrad to take it seriously, consequently ruining their GPA. Instead of going and doing a post-bacc or graduate school, or more undergraduate work, they went to the carribean for their 2nd chance.

I agree that there are indeed students who lack both the maturity and intelligence to become physicians, who get into the carribeans - but guess what? These people usually don't graduate. I reckon that everyone who actually graduates from these carribean schools, and pass all the USMLE steps, are good enough and equal to US trained phsyicians - why? Because their clerkships are done in the US anyway...so they'll get the same 3rd and 4th year training as US students, same letters of reference, etc and eventually the same residency training.

Re: Bold - that's just it, some people don't want to waste time like that, they figure, what the hell, it makes no difference - if carribeans will take me now, let's get it done faster. That was the thinking of this friend of mine - the dude was smart, but his first two years were fudged...his third year he got a 3.9, and for 4th, well - he got into Ross and he is actually finishing this year, and will be begin his residency next year - IN the US!! He also wrote the MCAT once, and did terribly on it - but he didn't waste any money or time to rewrite it..

While I took a bit longer and will just be starting med school next year - he'll be done. I suppose that I could've followed him, but I'll be one of the few to admit that I have a small ego and couldn't bring myself to go that route - I'll be sure to keep my ego in check throughout med school and beyond though.
 

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hey pyrois,
i've discussed this with many people at length, and most of them say the same thing as you "those are just the exceptions"...well my answer is, be the darn exception then! if you're willing to bust your behind then you can get wherever you want. a good doctor is not one who went to a good school and doesn't know jack, a good doctor is one who knows his stuff and can deal with patients. i'd rather be the former.
and just in case you're wondering, i've been accepted to us med schools so i have no personal bias for carribean schools...this is just what i think

I agree with you, but I also bet you 100% of the kids who go down to the carribean of year believe they're going to be "the exception."
 

Disinence2

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I understand what you mean, but in term of what the OP was asking...I don't think its a good idea to resign yourself to the caribbean before you even go through your first round of US addmissions.

I have a good friend who just assumed she wouldn't get into a US school and is headed straight to St. George, i think thats a bad decision!

Ya never know! poeple with very low GPA's still get into US schools, Look at Meharry! They take poeple with 2.5-3.0 GPA's if they think they will be good doctors.
 

foofish

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In terms of school itself, it seems that for US MD/DO schools, the biggest hurdle is getting in...and once you're in, you're unlikely to fail out (and the school will do all they can to prevent that).....whereas for Carribean schools the biggest hurdle is staying in.

Also, you're at some disadvantage if you want to get a residency in the US, since you're considered a foreign med student (I think). It doesn't mean you can't do it, but it's an uphill climb, especially if you want to match into a competative field at a top program.
 

xylem29

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In terms of school itself, it seems that for US MD/DO schools, the biggest hurdle is getting in...and once you're in, you're unlikely to fail out (and the school will do all they can to prevent that).....whereas for Carribean schools the biggest hurdle is staying in.

Also, you're at some disadvantage if you want to get a residency in the US, since you're considered a foreign med student (I think). It doesn't mean you can't do it, but it's an uphill climb, especially if you want to match into a competative field at a top program.

Oh yes - this is a big disadvantage. You will not be eligible for an H1B visa if you are a foreign citizen as well, so don't think that the carribean is a back door to working in the US. It is hard as it is, if you are a foreign citizen who graduates from a US school - so nevermind from a carribean school.
 

bigdog8829

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I believe that any reputable school will give you the numbers. Average mcat, gpa, residency match lists. Find out the Carribean schools avg pass rates on the step 1. I can tell you Ross, below 65%.
the only 'good' Carribean school i've heard of is St. George with a 90%+ pass rate on step 1. Better than the U.S. average.
 

monsoon338

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No, its not that bad at all. Don't let hearsay guide your choices. Look into the information yourself and make your choice. I've heard that Ross has a bad USMLE pass rate, but this site says different:

http://www.iaomc.org/ross.pdf

#77 - Ross USMLE Step 1 pass rate of 86.6% in 2004

Of course, that has to be taken with a grain of salt too. Since it is 3 years old. Also, the website that lists it and the organization itself might not be valid.

One thing is for sure, they weed out the weak ones in the beginning and keep weeding them out throughout their medical school curriculum. So long as you study hard, I don't see a problem with it. Ask the school though, call them up and ask them about their pass rate.

Of course this does not apply to all the Caribbean schools. Stick with the top 4 is what I've been told - SGU, Ross, AUC, and Saba. St. Matthews might be an option. See which states recognize the degrees from those schools.

I am personally doing a lot of research on Ross. It doesn't seem that bad. If you can study your butt off for 16 months of your life, you're on your way to an MD. Its owned by DeVry University, so you know they are legit. They are renovating there and from the pictures, they have plasma screens hanging from the ceilings in the lecture halls with a wireless campus. The cadavers are 1 per 9 students, but I've seen that ratio at some DO schools.

The best part about it might be the tuition. $11,000/year. Thats dirt cheap compared to some US schools - $30,000. If you get the same rotation site as a US med student and graudate with 1/3 - 1/2 less debt, then why not? That means you can pay off your student loan quicker.

It doesn't have to be all doom and gloom. I've heard of people working along with doctors in the US fine during residency. So long as you know your stuff, then it doesn't really matter where you get your degree.

This is the most important part though. You are already behind the 8 ball. You will have to BUST YOUR BUTT to succeed if you decide the Caribbean. But of course, you'd have to bust your butt anywhere to succeed...
 
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If your GPA is above 3.0, you're an undergrad, and your MCAT scores are gonna eff you up for now, I would suggest a taking a few yrs off. Don't know who you are or what your background is but get out into the world and experience it a little. You can also use that time to focus on getting better MCAT scores if need be.

This isn't applying to law school where the hard part is getting in. Becoming a doctor is a difficult journey. And for good doctors, the journey never ends - they're always striving to perfect, educate, and learn. So if you're thinking about investing $$$/debt into something you're not confident about (ie Caribbean, Poland, etc.) simply because you want to start Med School as soon as possible: stop. The process of becoming a physician is not something that should be rushed. It's okay to take some time to 1) do some maturing and 2) make yourself into a better candidate at schools you would rather go to, or will be happier at.

If you're worried about being "old" when you graduate - most specialists don't complete their training until they're in their mid-30s and I think the best primary doctors are those who have lived life as civilians prior to putting on the white robe. A 26 yr old gunner grad finishing training in CV surg will at a minimum be 34 yrs old, a neurosurg will be at a minimum 33 yrs old. An 26 yr old grad going into Family practice will be 29. What's the really significant difference between 36 and 34 or 35 and 33 or 31 and 29? Either way, everybody's "old" by the time they complete their training.

Trust me, the difference between being a graduate in 2012 versus a graduate in 2014 or 2015 is really nothing when you compare it to the lifelong careers of a Debakey, Barnard, or Whipple.

And if it's because you want the "financial windfall" of being a doctor ASAP. Heh. Maybe I should just direct you to business school and I-banking. It's a lot faster.

From the Mars University episode of Futurama:
Guenter - All I want out of life is to be a monkey of moderate intelligence who wears a suit. That's why I've decided to transfer to business school! Farnsworth - Nooo!

Seriously, go to the Caribbeans only if you really want to, not because you have to.
 

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To say that everyone in the Caribbean is here because we couldnt get into a DO school is pure crap. Either will get you where you want to go, but it is a personal decision that everyone must make on their own......as far as waiting around for a U.S. allo school, no thanks. I am married and have a 3 year old so i dont want to be 35 before i start residency, where i stand right now i will be completely done with med school and residency by 31....so go D.O. go foreign M.D. it doesnt matter, just dont base your decision on what a bunch of silly arrogant premeds (who i wouldnt want to give my dog a physical) have to say.
 

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If your GPA is above 3.0, you're an undergrad, and your MCAT scores are gonna eff you up for now, I would suggest a taking a few yrs off. Don't know who you are or what your background is but get out into the world and experience it a little. You can also use that time to focus on getting better MCAT scores if need be.

This isn't applying to law school where the hard part is getting in. Becoming a doctor is a difficult journey. And for good doctors, the journey never ends - they're always striving to perfect, educate, and learn. So if you're thinking about investing $$$/debt into something you're not confident about (ie Caribbean, Poland, etc.) simply because you want to start Med School as soon as possible: stop. The process of becoming a physician is not something that should be rushed. It's okay to take some time to 1) do some maturing and 2) make yourself into a better candidate at schools you would rather go to, or will be happier at.

If you're worried about being "old" when you graduate - most specialists don't complete their training until they're in their mid-30s and I think the best primary doctors are those who have lived life as civilians prior to putting on the white robe. A 26 yr old gunner grad finishing training in CV surg will at a minimum be 34 yrs old, a neurosurg will be at a minimum 33 yrs old. An 26 yr old grad going into Family practice will be 29. What's the really significant difference between 36 and 34 or 35 and 33 or 31 and 29? Either way, everybody's "old" by the time they complete their training.

Trust me, the difference between being a graduate in 2012 versus a graduate in 2014 or 2015 is really nothing when you compare it to the lifelong careers of a Debakey, Barnard, or Whipple.

And if it's because you want the "financial windfall" of being a doctor ASAP. Heh. Maybe I should just direct you to business school and I-banking. It's a lot faster.

From the Mars University episode of Futurama:
Guenter - All I want out of life is to be a monkey of moderate intelligence who wears a suit. That's why I've decided to transfer to business school! Farnsworth - Nooo!

Seriously, go to the Caribbeans only if you really want to, not because you have to.

My GPA was >3.8 at a big ten school....I went to Ross....will be getting my MD next month....and will be matching in one of my top 5 programs.

I had no problems with the island at all....plus I dont have to worry about the DO stigma the rest of my life.
 

oldpro

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Yes, the Caribbeans are that bad. The majority of them were set up recently to prey on the hopes and $$$ of US pre-meds who were having trouble getting into US schools. Most of the people accepted will not graduate, and (I'm not sure of the exact stats but...) a good portion of the people who do graduate never pass the boards. I don't want to offend any DOs here, but the generally accepted wisdom is that you first try to get into an MD program, failing that go for a DO, and failing that go to the Caribbean. Most residency programs will make that assumption about your qualifications depending on where you go. Personally, I would reconsider my career plans if I could not make it into an allopathic program in the United States after a couple of tries.

This is the crap I expect from closed minded immature premeds.

Guess the Head of EMory pain clinic should not have gone to the Caribbean HUH?
 

oldpro

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You have to take into consideration the nature of the poeple going into US MD schools Vs. Carribean.

If you don't have what it takes to get into a US MD or DO school, then part of me says that you don't have what it takes to be a "good" doctor. The Caribbean is great for poeple who might have something like a past criminal record/crazy circumstance that will keep them out of a US school, but are still hard working studious poeple.

After going through this process i would like to make a claim that will probably be attacked here.

It is NOT as difficult as poeple make it seem to get into a US MD or DO program. Yes its incredably difficult to get into a top 20 or even top 50 school.... But to get into ANY med school, somewhere in US, Should be easily accomplished by someone with reasonable intelligence and perseverence in less than 3 rounds of applications.


This one is even funnier! Past Criminal record??? People Spelled wrong too, wow!

Uh if you have a felony you cannot get a medical license. Most of the Caribbean students are not that bad and there are more than a few with very good stats but choose to go to the caribbean, this just proves that Opinions are not facts even if they are posted like facts, you really have to take some of these posts with a grain of salt....................IMO!
 

oldpro

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If your GPA is above 3.0, you're an undergrad, and your MCAT scores are gonna eff you up for now, I would suggest a taking a few yrs off. Don't know who you are or what your background is but get out into the world and experience it a little. You can also use that time to focus on getting better MCAT scores if need be.

This isn't applying to law school where the hard part is getting in. Becoming a doctor is a difficult journey. And for good doctors, the journey never ends - ...............................................
Seriously, go to the Caribbeans only if you really want to, not because you have to.

Funny too, Yes of course you are a Doctor right? You know what it takes to be an MD right? FUnny how easy it is for others to post:

Well..........if you wait another 2 to 3 years and do XYZ then maybe I would consider you good enough for Medical school, but never go to the caribbean you may become a doctor I DO NOT APPROVE OF. (Of course you want some internet strangers approval right?)

Really? Why thank you. Premeds being the experts at medical careers give great advice ...................until its them trying to get accepted into medschool...................................huh guess they will just give up if they are not accepted after a year or two? Yeah Right...........................
 

oldpro

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You have to take into consideration the nature of the poeple going into US MD schools Vs. Carribean.

If you don't have what it takes to get into a US MD or DO school, then part of me says that you don't have what it takes to be a "good" doctor. The Caribbean is great for poeple who might have something like a past criminal record/crazy circumstance that will keep them out of a US school, but are still hard working studious poeple.

After going through this process i would like to make a claim that will probably be attacked here.

It is NOT as difficult as poeple make it seem to get into a US MD or DO program. Yes its incredably difficult to get into a top 20 or even top 50 school.... But to get into ANY med school, somewhere in US, Should be easily accomplished by someone with reasonable intelligence and perseverence in less than 3 rounds of applications.

WOW hope we never meet, I see you are a PGY 4 thats scary you have such a closed mind to the possibilities that even people who do ok can still be great Docs. I know plenty of them in my 17 years of practice, some Docs did not get the best grades and still are very good Docs and some of the Docs I worked with at places like JH, (Yes the one in Baltimore) I wouldn't let them touch the person I hate the most in my class. Intelligence alone is not good enough for a really good Doc, the best Docs have Balance of Intelligence, what we call common sense and experience, you leave out the possibility that some of us in the Caribbean are NonTrads, (I'm 43 myself) so our choices were limited in where to go to medschool.
 

oldpro

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I get some flack for saying that there is a strong bias against Caribbean Students by US students, well here you are, looks like above there are 3 know it all premeds and 1 scary PGY 4, all with strong opinions, just about saying Caribbean grads are inferior and should not practice, I really take offense to this kind of thinking its very prejudice, these should be intelligent opened minded people that respect the hard work of others, but I find it hard to believe they have any respect at all if they find out their coworker went to a Caribbean school, be prepared Caribbean students you may see these people one day! Thank God they are not the Majority!
 

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I get some flack for saying that there is a strong bias against Caribbean Students by US students, well here you are, looks like above there are 3 know it all premeds and 1 scary PGY 4, all with strong opinions, just about saying Caribbean grads are inferior and should not practice, I really take offense to this kind of thinking its very prejudice, these should be intelligent opened minded people that respect the hard work of others, but I find it hard to believe they have any respect at all if they find out their coworker went to a Caribbean school, be prepared Caribbean students you may see these people one day! Thank God they are not the Majority!

Oldpro, why are you wasting your energy. Let them believe what they want to believe. Don't go to medical school, I don't care. If you think caribbean school suck, dont go! Easy..
 
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yea what's up with all the hostility? it's clear that those people are only interested in the prestige that comes along with becoming a doctor. If you want to help people who cares what route you take. If you're good at your job then your actions will bring you real respect right?
 

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Oldpro, why are you wasting your energy. Let them believe what they want to believe. Don't go to medical school, I don't care. If you think caribbean school suck, dont go! Easy..

I guess I'm just sick and tired of reading these attitudes, even on VMD a DO section was vreated and I have read smug postings by a DO student "sticking it" to some Caribbean student posters, telling them how they are so wrong and such. So it puts me in a bad mood to keep reading trash. I'm sorry for being cranky I think Medschool does that.
 

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old pro---theses arrogant PRE-meds( i emphasize the word pre, because they have no i dea what medical school is) are not interested in going into medicine to help others....if this were the case they would not care about where you went to school, they would be glad there are caribbean schools out there that are helping fill the HUGE physician shortage(particularly primary care)....idiots like that johnny drama are the types that will go to med school, be miserable because they realize that physicians are actually underpaid for the amount of work they do, he'll get divorced be miserable- you get the idea.......it's a shame people can't just worry about themselves
 

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old pro---theses arrogant PRE-meds( i emphasize the word pre, because they have no i dea what medical school is) are not interested in going into medicine to help others....if this were the case they would not care about where you went to school, they would be glad there are caribbean schools out there that are helping fill the HUGE physician shortage(particularly primary care)....idiots like that johnny drama are the types that will go to med school, be miserable because they realize that physicians are actually underpaid for the amount of work they do, he'll get divorced be miserable- you get the idea.......it's a shame people can't just worry about themselves

YOU TRY BUT LET THEM LEARN THEMSELVES,,,MOST ON HERE NEVER EVEN FILED A 1040 1099 TAX FORM,...let them learnnnnn:laugh: carib is an excellent oppty to go into med..others have done it but the one who question every little thing and need every step planned out, every turn they make will not make it or be very miserable,,many on here I presume have not even left their parents house so how will they know aout life,,let age age you and learn the ups and downs of life ,,,good luck and stay focused..
 

DRJJ1

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I get some flack for saying that there is a strong bias against Caribbean Students by US students, well here you are, looks like above there are 3 know it all premeds and 1 scary PGY 4, all with strong opinions, just about saying Caribbean grads are inferior and should not practice, I really take offense to this kind of thinking its very prejudice, these should be intelligent opened minded people that respect the hard work of others, but I find it hard to believe they have any respect at all if they find out their coworker went to a Caribbean school, be prepared Caribbean students you may see these people one day! Thank God they are not the Majority!

is in your head if you are confident and take charge and do the right things you get the respect you deserve, let them talk but you will shine and be a better person than they are and will go further in your career and life
 

oldpro

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is in your head if you are confident and take charge and do the right things you get the respect you deserve, let them talk but you will shine and be a better person than they are and will go further in your career and life


I know I should stop worrying and posting rebuttles, to me any of us have a lot of fortitude to come and study medicine in the Caribbean, no matter the school, we know there are risks including our study abilities, I give a lot of credit to many students some do turn around and do well and that is awesome.

Good luck to all
 

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It's a harder road no matter how you look at it. Lots of people buckle down and make the most of this second chance to become a physician, and do fine. But attrition is high at most caribbean schools.

Could the attrition be due more to the caliber of students being lower to begin with ( a gross generalization ) than the caliber of the school ? I'm not trying to start a flame war but asking a sincere question. Because if Caribean schools are as good as US schools, then the attrition rate should be similar, no? I mean maybe the surroundings have something to do with it but heck its the Caribbean. I know some of the schools are in not so good areas, but that holds for many US schools as well.
 

Jejton

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hey pyrois,
i've discussed this with many people at length, and most of them say the same thing as you "those are just the exceptions"...well my answer is, be the darn exception then! if you're willing to bust your behind then you can get wherever you want. a good doctor is not one who went to a good school and doesn't know jack, a good doctor is one who knows his stuff and can deal with patients. i'd rather be the former.


I think you meant the latter.
 

oldpro

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Could the attrition be due more to the caliber of students being lower to begin with ( a gross generalization ) than the caliber of the school ? I'm not trying to start a flame war but asking a sincere question. Because if Caribean schools are as good as US schools, then the attrition rate should be similar, no? I mean maybe the surroundings have something to do with it but heck its the Caribbean. I know some of the schools are in not so good areas, but that holds for many US schools as well.

YES I think, It's the students not as much as the school, the material is the material, and no matter what school you have to learn it or these students do not pass and pass the USMLE, some schools do pass people they should not though........that does happen but it's not that many.
 

DRJJ1

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Could the attrition be due more to the caliber of students being lower to begin with ( a gross generalization ) than the caliber of the school ? I'm not trying to start a flame war but asking a sincere question. Because if Caribean schools are as good as US schools, then the attrition rate should be similar, no? I mean maybe the surroundings have something to do with it but heck its the Caribbean. I know some of the schools are in not so good areas, but that holds for many US schools as well.

I think us schools push along more students where carib toss them out,,us schools also have more appeals and risk being sued where in the carib it s harder to sue so they toss faster
 
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