Are the students who are going to be future surgeons different in a characteristic way ?

[Slytheryn]

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This is not a thread boasting about surgery, chill 😉

I'm just curious whether there is a specific set of characteristics that some students have compared to others, which indicates that they have high chances to be a surgeon. I've read some posts and I came down to these so far : very strong self-confidence, pragmatism, fast thinking, "doesn't give a ****" attitude, calm, thick-skinned.

I know these are stereotypes, but that doesn't make them untrue. And if surgeons have these traits, then they certainly don't become like this overnight - they have to be like this as students also.

What are your experiences ?

 

[acapnial]

This is not a thread boasting about surgery, chill 😉

I'm just curious whether there is a specific set of characteristics that some students have compared to others, which indicates that they have high chances to be a surgeon. I've read some posts and I came down to these so far : very strong self-confidence, pragmatism, fast thinking, "doesn't give a ****" attitude, calm, thick-skinned.

I know these are stereotypes, but that doesn't make them untrue. And if surgeons have these traits, then they certainly don't become like this overnight - they have to be like this as students also.

What are your experiences ?

About half of the people I know going into surgery have 3 or fewer of those characteristics

 

[MrChance2]

Loving surgery enough and disinterest in the rest of life enough to regularily work 90 hour weeks on a spotty sleep schedule.

 

[ChrisMack390]

They are more interested in surgery than other students.

 

[Goro]

Where's @SouthernSurgeon when you need him?????

 

[Affiche]

I have a roommate who is surgery or bust. We won't be living together next year lol.

Very competitive but doesn't socialize with classmates enough to be obvious about it, abrasive personality, always right attitude, etc.

I know enough surgeons and wanna be surgeons to know that they aren't all like this, but I also know a few of the stereotypical dingus surgeons and I know classmates who fit this perfectly (and surprise, they're gunning for surgery).

 

[Promethean]

I have a roommate who is surgery or bust. We won't be living together next year lol.

Very competitive but doesn't socialize with classmates enough to be obvious about it, abrasive personality, always right attitude, etc.

I know enough surgeons and wanna be surgeons to know that they aren't all like this, but I also know a few of the stereotypical dingus surgeons and I know classmates who fit this perfectly (and surprise, they're gunning for surgery).

Now, I know you weren't talking about me, but:

I don't socialize with classmates much at all. I have my abrasive moments. And I am generally right, so why should I hide that light under a bushel?

Specialty choice? I'm gunning hard for FM.

Admittedly, I was an OR nurse and did want to go into surgery until just before I actually started the process of applying to medical school. If I'd done this as a traditional student, I would surely have picked surgery. So, maybe you are onto something.

 

[WinslowPringle]

Yes. We are all really good looking.



🙂

 

[operaman]

Confident, calm, quick thinking - yes.

The rest, especially the DGAF attitude - no. Sure there are surgeons like this, but I've come to realize that in my experience these are not the surgeons I respect and admire. Personally i give a lot of Fs, and so do the attendings I admire.

 

[NWwildcat2013]

I think the only common attribute is confidence. There really isn't room for second guessing or navel gazing in the OR. Surgeons often have to quickly select a branch on the decision tree, whether it is right or wrong, and move forward.

 

[MedReckoning]

A personality trait analysis of surgeons and non-surgeons at different career points:

http://www.royalcollege.ca/portal/p...Admissions_Selecting_Residents/J_Drosdeck.pdf

Although the demographics of the study could explain the results as the average female population has about a .5SD higher score on Agreeableness and Neuroticism in the Big 5 Inventory. I would argue, as someone too agreeable and but only moderately neurotic, that neither of these are particularly good personality traits for surgeons given the nature of the OR.

Psychology aside: The Big 5 is the most statistically reliable and cross-verified dimensional decomposition of human personality. Very robust. All other alleged personality traits are, statistically speaking, combinations of these Big 5 (e.g. "grit" as a fad in the education literature is nothing more than conscientiousness). Disgust sensitivity and industriousness are more mysterious other features of human nature that don't map well onto the Big 5 model. If you're planning on working with people extensively, I strongly recommend this free online lecture series on personality (currently running; past lectures are archived) by Prof. Jordan Peterson from UofT.

 

[Spectre of Ockham]

Thick skin is mandatory to survive in the OR , being an ass also helps otherwise stress will eat you alive.

 

[Brorthopedic]

They usually have hands

 

[Smurfette]

Thick skin is mandatory to survive in the OR , being an ass also helps otherwise stress will eat you alive.

No. Being an ass only serves to make people afraid to talk to you. I'd rather be nice and know that the nurses will call me early on, than be mean and get phone calls once things are worse and could have been prevented or minimized.

Plus as a surgeon, when I need to ask for an extra crew or team members to stay late to help me out, being pleasant to work with makes staff a lot more willing to help me out.

 

[W19]

Being obnoxious is one of the characteristics....

 

[WedgeDawg]

Being obnoxious is one of the characteristics....

That's a bit uncalled for, don't you think?

 

[W19]

That's a bit uncalled for, don't you think?

You are right... That was a little bit too harsh.

 

[OrthoTraumaMD]

No. Being an ass only serves to make people afraid to talk to you. I'd rather be nice and know that the nurses will call me early on, than be mean and get phone calls once things are worse and could have been prevented or minimized.

Plus as a surgeon, when I need to ask for an extra crew or team members to stay late to help me out, being pleasant to work with makes staff a lot more willing to help me out.

Agreed. Being confident and blunt doesn't necessarily need to be done in an "a$$hole" fashion. You can be as direct as you want, and can get what you want as long as you make it clear that your only concern is the well-being of the patient.

 

[MediCane2006]

Thick skin is mandatory to survive in the OR , being an ass also helps otherwise stress will eat you alive.

I disagree emphatically with "being an ass" but you do need some degree of self confidence to be able to appropriately internalize criticism without letting it destroy your confidence. I came perilously close to quitting around the PGY 2-3 period because my confidence in the OR as well as on the floor was pretty much shattered.

 

[Slack3r]

Thick skin is mandatory to survive in the OR , being an ass also helps otherwise stress will eat you alive.

Pretty big for those med student breeches, aren't we?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Pretty big for those med student breeches, aren't we?

Don't worry, he has loads of experience.

 

[DocWinter]

The MS1/2 who think they are going to be surgeons have some of those stereotypes you mentioned.

The surgeons i have worked with are all calm, quietly confident and otherwise mellow. I don't see any of this red bull bravado the ortho gunners think a cap skull gives them