Are there any combined residency scientist programs?

[Matildahere24]

Can we take a phD program while also taking residency in orthopedic surgery?

I am a woman and by the time I finish my orthopedic surgery residency, I will be 36 and cannot take a phD beyond 36 because I would like to start a family then, so I would like to combine my phD with my residency. Is there such program and especially for Australia and America?

I know there's a program in nyc that offers an extra year for people interested in doing a phD but they only take 2 students.

http://www.med.nyu.edu/orthosurgery/education-training/orthopaedic-surgery-residency-programs

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[doc05]

Can we take a phD program while also taking residency in orthopedic surgery?

Not realistic. Ortho residency is about 100 hours per week. You won't have time for a PhD on top of all the clinical work.

I am a woman and by the time I finish my orthopedic surgery residency, I will be 36 and cannot take a phD beyond 36 because I would like to start a family then, so I would like to combine my phD with my residency. Is there such program and especially for Australia and America?

I know there's a program in nyc that offers an extra year for people interested in doing a phD but they only take 2 students.

http://www.med.nyu.edu/orthosurgery/education-training/orthopaedic-surgery-residency-programs

Please read the web site. It mentions one extra year. Not five. One year isn't enough time for a PhD.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Basically, no. Residency is a job. A PhD is an educational degree. And I think you misunderstand -- that program at NYU is a physician scientist track. It's designed for people who already have a PhD. You do not get another degree in this program, and you're expected to demonstrate a good basis of research to get in, so most candidates probably have an MD/PhD combined degree.

Also, from your post, I get the sense you're an international grad. In that case your chances of getting an Ortho spot are already low, you should not be looking at physician scientist tracks unless you already have a very established research career.

In good news, after you complete any residency you can always add on a research fellowship for 1-2 years. It will not get you a PhD, but it will get you research experience.

 

[Matildahere24]

Not realistic. Ortho residency is about 100 hours per week. You won't have time for a PhD on top of all the clinical work.




Please read the web site. It mentions one extra year. Not five. One year isn't enough time for a PhD.

Can I do a phD program in the summer time? There are five summers altogether.

 

[gutonc]

Can I do a phD program in the summer time? There are five summers altogether.

Are the summers 12 months long? If so, then yes. Otherwise, no.

Why do you want a PhD anyway? Total waste of time.

 

[Matildahere24]

Basically, no. Residency is a job. A PhD is an educational degree. And I think you misunderstand -- that program at NYU is a physician scientist track. It's designed for people who already have a PhD. You do not get another degree in this program, and you're expected to demonstrate a good basis of research to get in, so most candidates probably have an MD/PhD combined degree.

Also, from your post, I get the sense you're an international grad. In that case your chances of getting an Ortho spot are already low, you should not be looking at physician scientist tracks unless you already have a very established research career.

In good news, after you complete any residency you can always add on a research fellowship for 1-2 years. It will not get you a PhD, but it will get you research experience.

Yes, I'm from canada.

Is there any way for me to take a phD program over several summertimes?

 

[Matildahere24]

Are the summers 12 months long? If so, then yes. Otherwise, no.

Why do you want a PhD anyway? Total waste of time.

I would like to invent and do research. Apparently you aren't taken seriously if you don't have a phd.

 

[gutonc]

Is there any way for me to take a phD program over several summertimes?

No. A PhD requires several years (3-6) of continuous, intensive research (following a year or so of coursework). Which can't be done 3 months at a time.

Also, the fact that you think you're going to get summers off during residency leads me to believe that you don't have any idea what you're signing up for here. How about we back up and you give us some background on you, where you are in the process and what your goals are, before we go any further.

 

[gutonc]

I would like to invent and do research. Apparently you aren't taken seriously if you don't have a phd.

I have a PhD and publications and I wasn't taken seriously.

YMMV of course.

 

[Matildahere24]

No. A PhD requires several years (3-6) of continuous, intensive research (following a year or so of coursework). Which can't be done 3 months at a time.

Also, the fact that you think you're going to get summers off during residency leads me to believe that you don't have any idea what you're signing up for here. How about we back up and you give us some background on you, where you are in the process and what your goals are, before we go any further.

I just recently graduated from the nursing program at York University and would like to get into orthopedic surgery. I also have an interest in research and invention which is why I would like to pursue a phD.

 

[gutonc]

I just recently graduated from the nursing program at York University and would like to get into orthopedic surgery. I also have an interest in research and invention which is why I would like to pursue a phD.

So you haven't applied to med school yet?

Come back and let us know how things are going when you have your Step 1 score and we can talk.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Well in that case, the answer is "simple". You should apply to MD/PhD programs. They can take anywhere from 6-8 years to complete. Then, assuming you do well and get great USMLE exam scores, and do research in Ortho, you'll apply to a research position like the one you've linked to. 7 years for the MD/Phd, and 6 years for the research fellowship will be a total of 13 years of training.

Alternatively, complete medical school and an ortho residency. Then partner up with someone in Engineering to do research together.

As mentioned, you haven't gotten into medical school yet. You have put the cart way before the horse.

And I'll add that if you're going to medical school and the only thing you think you will be happy in is Ortho, you have a long road ahead with, perhaps, much misery. Ortho is very competitive. You'll need to outperform many of your classmates, and get some ortho research done over the summers in medical school. You may not get an ortho spot and be "stuck" doing something else. If that doesn't sound acceptable, reconsider this whole plan.

 

[fantasty]

What aPD said is more complete than what I was going to say. But, just throwing out a couple of points (not helpful for the OP but possibly helpful for others thinking about "combined residency scientist programs" who see the title and check the thread out...

There are a number of programs (often called PSTP or similar) in fields that draw a fair number of MD/PhDs or MD's with significant research backgrounds (IM, Peds, Psych, Neuro, Rad Onc, etc). These are meant to streamline the residency / clinical fellowship / post-doc experience for people planning on staying in academic medicine. Not many people would earn a PhD that way (considering most would have them coming into the program anyhow), but the mentored post-doc research gives you a chance to start securing your own funding. [And the training program may cover some coursework to earn an additional degree or certification].

And, I don't know about ortho specifically, but some of the longer surgical specialties do have research tracks as well, which one could pursue (I'm aware of ENT and Neurosurg programs but I assume that there are others).

 

[ProfMD]

The only "residency / PhD" program I am aware of is at the University of Toronto. I know the surgery department allows you take take several years off from clinical duties to work on a PhD, not sure about other specialties.

There are also many programs in the US that have a research component, sometime substantial, but I am not aware of any that offer PhDs. I have known people to use this time to earn masters degrees.

However, these all have a medical degree as a prerequisite, so work on that first.

 

[Neuronix]

They can take anywhere from 6-8 years to complete.

7-9+. The national average is about 8 and almost nobody does them in 6 anymore. I have known a few 10+ year students though

In any case, US MD/PhD programs don't usually accept Canadians except in rare circumstances, and typically those students did undergraduate in the US. Canadian MD/PhD is much more unusual and rarely funded like American programs. I've been told that the PhD during residency situation is a bit more common up there.

Thus, to the op: this board is almost all Americans. What little I know about Canada is: med school is extremely competitive. Focus on getting into that and getting an orthopedic surgery residency if that's what you want. Use all your opportunities to do research. Find a lab that does research you're interested in and start getting research experience now. Labs up there will be better suited to answer your questions or know who can.

 

[shoal]

waiting till age 36 to have children is a gamble as well. youll be advanced maternal age. odds of successful pregnancy are much less. but you already know that. planning everything years and steps ahead of things usually just makes one unhappy after the straight and narrow path becomes windy and long.

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