Are there any specialties that aren't oversaturated in big cities?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

ooh a bean

Full Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2017
Messages
100
Reaction score
339
So I'm still just an M2, so I've done a lot of research into work-life balance, compensation, etc into only a few of the specialties that I've been interested in so far. What I've noticed is that a very common theme is that there are complaints of oversaturation in big cities (ex: ophthalmology). Are there any specialties that don't have oversaturation in big cities? Something that I've realized halfway through is that I am sick of living in the middle of nowhere and would prefer to live in a more urban environment.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Isn't it kinda unwise to make specialty choices based on job markets for 90% of specialties? Obv don't do path or radonc unless you can't live without them but every other specialty can change a lot in ten years...

Wrong.

You end up like Rad/onc by ignoring the market then you're forced to work 5 hours away from the nearest airport after doing a mandatory fellowship.
 
Last edited:
Isn't it kinda unwise to make specialty choices based on job markets for 90% of specialties? Obv don't do path or radonc unless you can't live without them but every other specialty can change a lot in ten years...

Wrong.

You end up like Rad/onc by ignoring the market then you're forced to work 5 hours away from the nearest airport after doing a mandatory fellowship.
Not to mention, OP is saying he/she prefers to live in and around an urban center. if they have the benefit of not being 99.9% committed on a particular specialty as an M1/M2, I think it's very wise to consider job market potentials
 
Can someone correct if I am wrong? I thought primary care (FM, IM) is over-saturated in urban areas (i.e. coasts), hence why physicians there have lower salaries.
 
Can someone correct if I am wrong? I thought primary care (FM, IM) is over-saturated in urban areas (i.e. coasts), hence why physicians there have lower salaries.

I think OP was asking about the ability to get a job, not the pay. In general, pay in large cities for all specialties is lower. Finding a job as an FM or IM won’t be a problem in large cities, there are plentiful opportunities.
 
1609509021768.jpeg

(Just kidding... IM and general subspecialites are usually available but competitive. Everyone is fighting to live impoverished in the big city)
 
Any specialty in a big city is going to have lower salary because of the “desire to live in a big city”; also in bigger cities you if you do a “generalist” specialty you will be quite limited in what you do. That’s probably true even for medium sized city too, because many of these places will have large tertiary health systems that are eating up anything but the largest PP and those are getting bought out by private equity. I live in a medium sized city and am a urogyn and since I started 1.5 years ago, nearly all surrounding general urology and obgyn send me anything to do with urogyn, same will be true for IM and FM, you’ll just be doing the PCP stuff. You can basically find a job in a “big city” or at least 20-30 minutes from a big city, in the majority of specialities, even probably Rad ONc and Path. But Irrespective of specialty there will be trade offs, lower salary, more sub specialists, if surgery specialties will have to deal with “minimum volume standards”, not to mention housing costs, grime and crime, parking issues etc. Most 20–35 year olds, especially single ones, have strong desire to be around the cultural centers of the world which is absolutely what they should want, lots of fun to explore, get to know yourself and other people better, etc, but after 35 in many (not necessarily all or most) that desire wanes and you just want a quiet street to raise your family on.

so while market considerations are important, you should pick specialty predominantly based on your interest because you can in general change your living circumstances a lot easier than you can change your specialty once you’ve completed training.
 
I would say FM/general IM as an outpatient physician is where the demand is.

My dad had a two month wait to see his IM PCP where I used to live. I chose a PA for my PCP just because I‘m healthy and don’t need much, and she had a reasonable wait time as opposed to the physicians in the office, and it was still sometimes at least a week before I could get in to see her. The demand is there, you’re just not going to make anything... which is why the specialties are oversaturated. No one wants to make primary care money.
 
I would say FM/general IM as an outpatient physician is where the demand is.

My dad had a two month wait to see his IM PCP where I used to live. I chose a PA for my PCP just because I‘m healthy and don’t need much, and she had a reasonable wait time as opposed to the physicians in the office, and it was still sometimes at least a week before I could get in to see her. The demand is there, you’re just not going to make anything... which is why the specialties are oversaturated. No one wants to make primary care money.
Oh good, this stereotype again.

The money in primary care is better than most people realize. This is especially true when you factor in lifestyle.

For 2020 (despite COVID) I'm on track to make a shade over 300k. I work 8-430 4 days a week and 8-12 on day a week. No nights, no weekends, no holidays. I took 5 weeks of vacation this year. Next year should be around 50% better, one of my partners retired in August so my numbers were only really good for 5 months this year.

Can other specialties make a decent bit more? Absolutely. Are they 3 year residencies with banker's hours and probably the best job market in the country? Nope.
 
Oh good, this stereotype again.

The money in primary care is better than most people realize. This is especially true when you factor in lifestyle.

For 2020 (despite COVID) I'm on track to make a shade over 300k. I work 8-430 4 days a week and 8-12 on day a week. No nights, no weekends, no holidays. I took 5 weeks of vacation this year. Next year should be around 50% better, one of my partners retired in August so my numbers were only really good for 5 months this year.

Can other specialties make a decent bit more? Absolutely. Are they 3 year residencies with banker's hours and probably the best job market in the country? Nope.
I mean, it really depends.

My FM preceptor this year checked her bank account while I was working with her, right in front of me, and I happened to see her paycheck. It was right at 4x as high as my standard paycheck at full time with no OT. My base salary was around ~$45k/year. I know I can’t directly extrapolate numbers because of tax differences, but it was still lower than I expected considering she has 20 years of experience. She is employed by the local hospital system, which I’m sure does make a difference in her potential earnings.

Is it possible to make more? Sure. Does everyone in primary care make $300k? Absolutely not.
 
I mean, it really depends.

My FM preceptor this year checked her bank account while I was working with her, right in front of me, and I happened to see her paycheck. It was right at 4x as high as my standard paycheck at full time with no OT. My base salary was around ~$45k/year. I know I can’t directly extrapolate numbers because of tax differences, but it was still lower than I expected considering she has 20 years of experience. She is employed by the local hospital system, which I’m sure does make a difference in her potential earnings.

Is it possible to make more? Sure. Does everyone in primary care make $300k? Absolutely not.
Obviously, but it's usually by choice if you don't (or are early in your career).

I interviewed for a job a few years back. Salaried at 225k. I was expected to hit certain productivity goals (if I didn't they would have paid me less). But if I exceeded them, they wouldn't pay me more.

I did not take that job. I would wager your preceptor was in a job like that.

If you're an FP working on production, assuming you like to be busy, hitting 300k is not at all difficult.
 
Pediatric subspecialties, mainly because of a supply issue. Lots of residents don't want to do three more years of fellowship for potentially no pay increase.
 
Top