Are there still lifestyle specialties besides derm?

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Foot Fetish

Foot Fetish

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Do lifestyle specialties still exist besides derm? By "lifestyle," I mean high salary, good hours, and good job market (job security). Anesthesiology is suffering from mid-level encroachment by CRNA's. Volume is going way up in radiology, and you're expected to read super fast all day with almost no breaks (not to mention sitting all day, which is "the new smoking" in terms of health effects). Anything surgical is automatically not lifestyle because the hours blow. What's left?
 
Is anyone else fed up with these lifestyle threads?

Medicine is a calling for most of us. Much of the reason we are entrusted with the privilege to care for others is that we sacrifice for it. They can count on us. This notion that "well I just want banker's hours, not much to do during those hours, no call, and a lot of money," gives the entire field a bad image.

If you want to play doctor, but not have the responsibilities that come with it, there are other pathways to clinical medicine.

You simply can not expect to have your cake, and eat it too.
 
neusu said:
Is anyone else fed up with these lifestyle threads?

Medicine is a calling for most of us. Much of the reason we are entrusted with the privilege to care for others is that we sacrifice for it. They can count on us. This notion that "well I just want banker's hours, not much to do during those hours, no call, and a lot of money," gives the entire field a bad image.

If you want to play doctor, but not have the responsibilities that come with it, there are other pathways to clinical medicine.

You simply can not expect to have your cake, and eat it too.
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And Im fed up with people who disparage anyone who doesnt share their romanticized notions of medicine..Not all of us had physician parents. Its not an idealistic fairy tale world for everyone...when you grow up poor, its impossible to look past the financial aspect of your career ambitions. Im not saying im doing medicine for the money, but im not ashamed to admit that thats a major factor. Its a means of huge social mobility for people like me, whose parents worked as janitors...the fact of the matter is that im going to be making at least 5x what either of my parents made. Of course i think about that. I want to have the means to care for them and pay them back for the sacrifices they made for me, to allow them to experience some of the things they could never afford for themselves...and to give my children the things that I never got to experience in my own childhood. That doesnt mean I care less about my future patients. I can and will care just as much as any other physician out there. As long as youre practicing good, evidence-based medicine and producing good outcomes, who really cares what your incentive is??? Im sick of this martyrdom culture. There should be no shame in wanting a nice lifestyle if you work for it and earn it.
 
neusu said:
Is anyone else fed up with these lifestyle threads?

Medicine is a calling for most of us. Much of the reason we are entrusted with the privilege to care for others is that we sacrifice for it. They can count on us. This notion that "well I just want banker's hours, not much to do during those hours, no call, and a lot of money," gives the entire field a bad image.

If you want to play doctor, but not have the responsibilities that come with it, there are other pathways to clinical medicine.

You simply can not expect to have your cake, and eat it too.
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I'm sure your future employer will be glad to know you won't cost too much.
 
Foot Fetish said:
Do lifestyle specialties still exist besides derm? By "lifestyle," I mean high salary, good hours, and good job market (job security). Anesthesiology is suffering from mid-level encroachment by CRNA's. Volume is going way up in radiology, and you're expected to read super fast all day with almost no breaks (not to mention sitting all day, which is "the new smoking" in terms of health effects). Anything surgical is automatically not lifestyle because the hours blow. What's left?
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There's always podiatry...
 
Foot Fetish said:
And Im fed up with people who disparage anyone who doesnt share their romanticized notions of medicine..Not all of us had physician parents. Its not an idealistic fairy tale world for everyone...when you grow up poor, its impossible to look past the financial aspect of your career ambitions. Im not saying im doing medicine for the money, but im not ashamed to admit that thats a major factor. Its a means of huge social mobility for people like me, whose parents worked as janitors...the fact of the matter is that im going to be making at least 5x what either of my parents made. Of course i think about that. I want to have the means to care for them and pay them back for the sacrifices they made for me, to allow them to experience some of the things they could never afford for themselves...and to give my children the things that I never got to experience in my own childhood. That doesnt mean I care less about my future patients. I can and will care just as much as any other physician out there. As long as youre practicing good, evidence-based medicine and producing good outcomes, who really cares what your incentive is??? Im sick of this martyrdom culture. There should be no shame in wanting a nice lifestyle if you work for it and earn it.
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Dude, you literally just started. I certainly agree w/ parts of your post (I certainly don't have romanticized notions of medicine) - just focus on the present and doing well enough to have the opportunity to go into a "lifestyle" specialty if you so choose. SDN will be SDN so there's very little point to getting frustrated w/ the "martyrdom" culture.

Getting compensated is nice, however, I just feel like if you want a "nice lifestyle", there are a couple different easier, faster, and cheaper routes to that end goal aside from medicine.
 
Foot Fetish said:
And Im fed up with people who disparage anyone who doesnt share their romanticized notions of medicine..Not all of us had physician parents. Its not an idealistic fairy tale world for everyone...when you grow up poor, its impossible to look past the financial aspect of your career ambitions. Im not saying im doing medicine for the money, but im not ashamed to admit that thats a major factor. Its a means of huge social mobility for people like me, whose parents worked as janitors...the fact of the matter is that im going to be making at least 5x what either of my parents made. Of course i think about that. I want to have the means to care for them and pay them back for the sacrifices they made for me, to allow them to experience some of the things they could never afford for themselves...and to give my children the things that I never got to experience in my own childhood. That doesnt mean I care less about my future patients. I can and will care just as much as any other physician out there. As long as youre practicing good, evidence-based medicine and producing good outcomes, who really cares what your incentive is??? Im sick of this martyrdom culture. There should be no shame in wanting a nice lifestyle if you work for it and earn it.
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Only difference is that you seem interested in getting "more" for "less"...stop trying to defend it...Even if you didn't have a lifestyle specialty, you'd still be making very comfortable money that would allow you to provide (quite well) for your family. My parents aren't doctors, by the way, so I guess you can't use that as a reason why I disagree with you. 🙄
 
Foot Fetish said:
Do lifestyle specialties still exist besides derm? By "lifestyle," I mean high salary, good hours, and good job market (job security). Anesthesiology is suffering from mid-level encroachment by CRNA's. Volume is going way up in radiology, and you're expected to read super fast all day with almost no breaks (not to mention sitting all day, which is "the new smoking" in terms of health effects). Anything surgical is automatically not lifestyle because the hours blow. What's left?
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Radiologists can have standing desks. I've seen it.
 
MeatTornado said:
psych
PM&R
hospitalist
some IM subspecialties such as rheum and endocrine

....this question gets asked a lot
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Our hospitalists get worked into the ground, then transition to outpatient settings or move out of state.
 
TooMuchResearch said:
Our hospitalists get worked into the ground, then transition to outpatient settings or move out of state.
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Yeah lol Hospitalist medicine is like playing tag throughout the hospital. Except you don't get tagged back.

Go see patient. See if anything is wrong, add to notes. Next one. It was pretty boring on the outside but I'm sure the intellectual component is probably there.

I could never do it... unless the money was right.
 
TooMuchResearch said:
Radiologists can have standing desks. I've seen it.
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5e77bf3d85eb432dbb794dcc2dfccf97.jpg
 
Foot Fetish said:
And Im fed up with people who disparage anyone who doesnt share their romanticized notions of medicine..Not all of us had physician parents. Its not an idealistic fairy tale world for everyone...when you grow up poor, its impossible to look past the financial aspect of your career ambitions. Im not saying im doing medicine for the money, but im not ashamed to admit that thats a major factor. Its a means of huge social mobility for people like me, whose parents worked as janitors...the fact of the matter is that im going to be making at least 5x what either of my parents made. Of course i think about that. I want to have the means to care for them and pay them back for the sacrifices they made for me, to allow them to experience some of the things they could never afford for themselves...and to give my children the things that I never got to experience in my own childhood. That doesnt mean I care less about my future patients. I can and will care just as much as any other physician out there. As long as youre practicing good, evidence-based medicine and producing good outcomes, who really cares what your incentive is??? Im sick of this martyrdom culture. There should be no shame in wanting a nice lifestyle if you work for it and earn it.
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There is no shame in wanting to be compensated well for what you do. I'm not advocating anyone become a martyr. I'm simply stating the constant focus on doing the least amount of work to get the most is lazy and your efforts would be better spent learning. If that offends you or hurts your feelings you are too sensitive.
 
People tend to write off various neurological subspecialties or forget about them as lifestyle fields. They're fairly reimbursed, but a headache or pain specialist can make due in an outpatient cash-based setting if they have business acumen.

PM&R like one of the posters mentioned above, wide range of salaries with outstanding hours, again depending on how you set up your practice and how much you desire to work each week.

Psychiatry has been mentioned many times.

Radiation oncology is a very lifestyle oriented field though some of the community ones I know are busy, but they're not being called in on Saturdays, and they make excellent money.

I believe you should continue to count ophthalmology as a lifestyle field despite your "anything surgical is automatically out" because I can't remember the last time I had an ophthalmologist come to the ED to consult on a patient. The answer is universally, "send them to clinic tomorrow!" They all work excellent hours if they want, and the option to expand and open up your own clinic is there (but largely dwindling).

Rheumatology and Immunology appears to fit this category based on what I've read here, and I only know one in real life, who seems fairly stress-free and of course is never on call since there's no reason to be. He's a great guy though, and will answer the phone at anytime of the day, any day of the week if I am taking care of one of his private patients. He simply loves his profession though, a rare breed these days.

ENT may be there, but residency is difficult and depending on how you set up your practice you can be busy, but it's clearly recognized as a lifestyle surgical subspecialty.

Other than derm that is it, particularly when considering your stipulation of "high salary"


Options that medical students believe are lifestyle specialties, but in my opinion aren't: Radiology, Emergency Medicine, Anesthesiology, Urology, IM (though you can find ways to make money and live an easy lifestyle with IM), GI, Pediatrics. Most of these pay well however with the exception of Peds!
 
exsanguination said:
I believe you should continue to count ophthalmology as a lifestyle field despite your "anything surgical is automatically out" because I can't remember the last time I had an ophthalmologist come to the ED to consult on a patient. The answer is universally, "send them to clinic tomorrow!" They all work excellent hours if they want, and the option to expand and open up your own clinic is there (but largely dwindling).
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If you're in a ED that has never had an ophtho emergency, you have to be at a really low acuity shop with 0 trauma....
 
Foot Fetish said:
And Im fed up with people who disparage anyone who doesnt share their romanticized notions of medicine.

That doesnt mean I care less about my future patients. I can and will care just as much as any other physician out there. As long as youre practicing good, evidence-based medicine and producing good outcomes, who really cares what your incentive is??? Im sick of this martyrdom culture. There should be no shame in wanting a nice lifestyle if you work for it and earn it.
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Good grief. As a plumb average MS ~ 2 months, can you please tell us more about your "notions of medicine"? Or how much you "will care just as much as any other physician out there"? With the questions you keep asking, you won't. You simply won't. Lots of physicians will care way more than you do. They will work harder than you; they will study harder than you (NB: they never stop studying); and they will spend more time perfecting their craft than you do. And that's just how it is if "lifestyle" is what you're after. Accept it and move on, but why are you lecturing real doctors (and good people) like @neusu about how wonderful you'll be, and how everybody will consider you to be their equal when you don't want to work as hard as they do? Not going to happen. Most doctors strive for balance but anybody who says you can have it all is a fool. You don't want to work that hard? Fine. No shame. Do what feels right. But stop pretending you will be regarded equal to anybody until you actually are.

In the real world, the majority of doctors 1) work really damn hard, and 2) expect to be compensated for it. There is no martyrdom. There are no shortcuts. There are only sharks who want to pick your pockets clean, and patients who need your help.
 
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Wordead said:
If you're in a ED that has never had an ophtho emergency, you have to be at a really low acuity shop with 0 trauma....
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The answer is still almost always "I'll see the patient first thing tomorrow."

I've seen them come in for globe rupture and someone who needed a medial canthotomy. Possibly 1-2 times for acute angle closure during the daytime hours.

Everything else is "get them to clinic" today or tomorrow.
 
I think it also depends what you're calling a "high" salary. for me $150k per year is more than enough (grew up in a family where total income was less than half of that). If OP Is looking for 400k+ working less than 50hrs a week, good luck. Finding a field where you can work that little and make around 150-200k leaves plenty of options.
 
TooMuchResearch said:
The answer is still almost always "I'll see the patient first thing tomorrow."

I've seen them come in for globe rupture and someone who needed a medial canthotomy. Possibly 1-2 times for acute angle closure during the daytime hours.

Everything else is "get them to clinic" today or tomorrow.
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If the specialists who know the body part/system best don't deem the issue to be an emergency that requires their immediate attention, I don't see the problem at all. Sounds like they do a pretty good job at coming in when their expertise is urgently required.
 
Stagg737 said:
I think it also depends what you're calling a "high" salary. for me $150k per year is more than enough (grew up in a family where total income was less than half of that).
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I totally agree here. I'm interested in pediatrics (am currently a lowly M1 so what do I really know? But still) and the whole gosh-peds-salary-sucks-though-lol thing comes up a lot. Since when is making 150k a low salary? It's more than enough if it's something someone genuinely wants to do. Yes, loans are ridiculous, but with the way people bemoan the whole deal you would think either a) we assigned specialties by forcing people in with a gun to their head and/or b) there are tons of starving doctors in the streets because they couldn't make ends meet. People can be so dramatic.


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lymphocyte said:
Good grief. As a plumb average MS ~ 2 months, can you please tell us more about your "notions of medicine"? Or how much you "will care just as much as any other physician out there"? With the questions you keep asking, you won't. You simply won't. Lots of physicians will care way more than you do. They will work harder than you; they will study harder than you (NB: they never stop studying); and they will spend more time perfecting their craft than you do. And that's just how it is if "lifestyle" is what you're after. Accept it and move on, but why are you lecturing real doctors (and good people) like @neusu about how wonderful you'll be, and how everybody will consider you to be their equal when you don't want to work as hard as they do? Not going to happen. Most doctors strive for balance but anybody who says you can have it all is a fool. You don't want to work that hard? Fine. No shame. Do what feels right. But stop pretending you will be regarded equal to anybody until you actually are.

In the real world, the majority of doctors 1) work really damn hard, and 2) expect to be compensated for it. There is no martyrdom. There are no shortcuts. There are only sharks who want to pick your pockets clean, and patients who need your help.
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You don't know me or how hard I work/care, so don't make presumptions about that. I would honestly say that I work harder than the average student in my M1 class (and my grades lately are consistently above the class average, for the record). Your assertion that physicians who pursue a great lifestyle have an inherently inferior work ethic as compared to their more idealistic counterparts is simply baseless conjecture. There is no data to support that; just your own gut feeling. Quantity is not greater than quality when it comes to medicine. I would say that a very talented specialist who works 45 hours in which he/she is 100% focused and doing everything in his/her power to provide the highest quality of care is working harder than a physician who does 60 hours of average work in which they see tons of patients. You're insinuating that people who work more hours or work under less favorable conditions have some sort of moral high-ground in medicine. I think that's a backwards ideology and one which has perpetuated this culture of unnecessary distress that has become a rite of passage and a point of pride in the medical community. I think it's foolish to be proud of being overworked. We should be striving to work smarter, not brutishly harder.
 
neusu said:
Is anyone else fed up with these lifestyle threads?

Medicine is a calling for most of us. Much of the reason we are entrusted with the privilege to care for others is that we sacrifice for it. They can count on us. This notion that "well I just want banker's hours, not much to do during those hours, no call, and a lot of money," gives the entire field a bad image.

If you want to play doctor, but not have the responsibilities that come with it, there are other pathways to clinical medicine.

You simply can not expect to have your cake, and eat it too.
Click to expand...

lymphocyte said:
Good grief. As a plumb average MS ~ 2 months, can you please tell us more about your "notions of medicine"? Or how much you "will care just as much as any other physician out there"? With the questions you keep asking, you won't. You simply won't. Lots of physicians will care way more than you do. They will work harder than you; they will study harder than you (NB: they never stop studying); and they will spend more time perfecting their craft than you do. And that's just how it is if "lifestyle" is what you're after. Accept it and move on, but why are you lecturing real doctors (and good people) like @neusu about how wonderful you'll be, and how everybody will consider you to be their equal when you don't want to work as hard as they do? Not going to happen. Most doctors strive for balance but anybody who says you can have it all is a fool. You don't want to work that hard? Fine. No shame. Do what feels right. But stop pretending you will be regarded equal to anybody until you actually are.

In the real world, the majority of doctors 1) work really damn hard, and 2) expect to be compensated for it. There is no martyrdom. There are no shortcuts. There are only sharks who want to pick your pockets clean, and patients who need your help.
Click to expand...

I don't think that worrying about lifestyle makes you a bad doctor, or an undedicated doctor, or a lazy doctor, either.

To put things in context, I am a primary care physician at a community health center. I see an almost exclusively Medicaid/uninsured population. I work long hours, for low pay. I know that I am underpaid according to market value for my geographic area. But, honestly, me and many of my colleagues would say that we ARE driven by a true calling - a calling to help underserved patients who would otherwise get no care or shoddy care elsewhere.

Despite that "calling," I am still very territorial about my weekends, and do not fault my colleagues for being territorial about their evenings and weekends either. Because, honestly, treating medicine as a calling only gets you so far. Your patients will not care about your wellbeing the way that your parents do. Your patients will not satisfy your need for love and intimacy the way that your spouse does. No matter how much your patients profess to love you, their opinion can easily change the second you deny their pain meds, antibiotics, or turn them away for being excessively late to their appointment.

And, honestly, we can throw around the phrase "medicine is a calling!" all we want, but how far down that rabbit hole do you really want to go? Medicine is enough of a calling for you that you're willing to work over 60 hours a week and take away time from your family. But is medicine enough of a calling for you that you're willing to work at a community health center and make $40K less than you would elsewhere? Is medicine enough of a calling for you that you work for free? Is medicine enough of a calling that you'll retire at 75, instead of 65? Is medicine enough of a calling that you will NEVER take ANY vacation at all?

And I think that we need to stop equating "lifestyle" with "lazy." Because we, of all people, should recognize that life is precious and not guaranteed to any of us - so whatever opportunity we get to maximize the time with people that we love should be taken. I don't think that there is any shame in that.
 
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I didn't realize that medicine consumes so much of your youth (time and energy) and if you don't strike the right balance it can easily degrade your health.

I have one life to live and I get 80 years of consciousness if Im lucky. I don't want to spend it stressed to the max and worked to the bone. Is this selfish? Maybe, but I don't care because my life is all I have and I want to spend as much of it as I can living for myself.

I still fundamentally enjoy medicine and patients more than other alternatives but I think its nonsense to work 60-80 hours per week. I'm willing to work 50-60 hours and expect to do that in my early career. During those hours, which would be seen as excessive by most working people, I will work hard and give good care. I don't feel an obligation to work past that and no martyr is going to convince me otherwise.
 
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Wordead said:
If you're in a ED that has never had an ophtho emergency, you have to be at a really low acuity shop with 0 trauma....
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If that's what you picked up from my post then perhaps it's my fault for not being clearer.

I have performed a lateral canthotomy, fished foreign bodies out of the eye with a small gauge TB needle, and found many a retinal detachment via story and ultrasound.

I have transferred people from our satellite site to the mothership for a variety of ocular emergencies mostly because opthalmologists in the community don't take call. Even getting one of them to see a potential post-operative complication is difficult.

To me this fits a lifestyle specialty, where you can get away with not having to interact with the hospital in any way, shape or form!
 
TheGreatDekuTree said:
I totally agree here. I'm interested in pediatrics (am currently a lowly M1 so what do I really know? But still) and the whole gosh-peds-salary-sucks-though-lol thing comes up a lot. Since when is making 150k a low salary? It's more than enough if it's something someone genuinely wants to do. Yes, loans are ridiculous, but with the way people bemoan the whole deal you would think either a) we assigned specialties by forcing people in with a gun to their head and/or b) there are tons of starving doctors in the streets because they couldn't make ends meet. People can be so dramatic.


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There are lots of pediatric jobs that start over $200 though less likely in an urban setting.


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TooMuchResearch said:
The answer is still almost always "I'll see the patient first thing tomorrow."

I've seen them come in for globe rupture and someone who needed a medial canthotomy. Possibly 1-2 times for acute angle closure during the daytime hours.

Everything else is "get them to clinic" today or tomorrow.
Click to expand...

So no periorbital/orbital infections, no orbit fractures?

These are pretty common things that shouldnt be waiting until the next day
 
Foot Fetish said:
And Im fed up with people who disparage anyone who doesnt share their romanticized notions of medicine..Not all of us had physician parents. Its not an idealistic fairy tale world for everyone...when you grow up poor, its impossible to look past the financial aspect of your career ambitions. Im not saying im doing medicine for the money, but im not ashamed to admit that thats a major factor. Its a means of huge social mobility for people like me, whose parents worked as janitors...the fact of the matter is that im going to be making at least 5x what either of my parents made. Of course i think about that. I want to have the means to care for them and pay them back for the sacrifices they made for me, to allow them to experience some of the things they could never afford for themselves...and to give my children the things that I never got to experience in my own childhood. That doesnt mean I care less about my future patients. I can and will care just as much as any other physician out there. As long as youre practicing good, evidence-based medicine and producing good outcomes, who really cares what your incentive is??? Im sick of this martyrdom culture. There should be no shame in wanting a nice lifestyle if you work for it and earn it.
Click to expand...

If the word calling is dispensed with I think the general point is that besides the financial aspect it helps a lot if you truly enjoy what you are doing regardless of the specialty.


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exsanguination said:
If that's what you picked up from my post then perhaps it's my fault for not being clearer.

I have performed a lateral canthotomy, fished foreign bodies out of the eye with a small gauge TB needle, and found many a retinal detachment via story and ultrasound.

I have transferred people from our satellite site to the mothership for a variety of ocular emergencies mostly because opthalmologists in the community don't take call. Even getting one of them to see a potential post-operative complication is difficult.

To me this fits a lifestyle specialty, where you can get away with not having to interact with the hospital in any way, shape or form!
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Well it just sounds like you don't have ophtho where you are or that you have ****ty ophtho people that don't take care of emergencies. Probably better from an ED training standpoint but it's rather skewed to say you don't need to come in ever. Anyone can be a ****ty community surgeon that just punts things to main campus. You don't need to be ophtho for that.
 
Wordead said:
Well it just sounds like you don't have ophtho where you are or that you have ****ty ophtho people that don't take care of emergencies. Probably better from an ED training standpoint but it's rather skewed to say you don't need to come in ever. Anyone can be a ****ty community surgeon that just punts things to main campus. You don't need to be ophtho for that.
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If you've spent a few decades running into the hospital though there is no shame in punting. If you think that makes one sh****y then come back here in 25 years.


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Foot Fetish said:
And Im fed up with people who disparage anyone who doesnt share their romanticized notions of medicine..Not all of us had physician parents. Its not an idealistic fairy tale world for everyone...when you grow up poor, its impossible to look past the financial aspect of your career ambitions. Im not saying im doing medicine for the money, but im not ashamed to admit that thats a major factor. Its a means of huge social mobility for people like me, whose parents worked as janitors...the fact of the matter is that im going to be making at least 5x what either of my parents made. Of course i think about that. I want to have the means to care for them and pay them back for the sacrifices they made for me, to allow them to experience some of the things they could never afford for themselves...and to give my children the things that I never got to experience in my own childhood. That doesnt mean I care less about my future patients. I can and will care just as much as any other physician out there. As long as youre practicing good, evidence-based medicine and producing good outcomes, who really cares what your incentive is??? Im sick of this martyrdom culture. There should be no shame in wanting a nice lifestyle if you work for it and earn it.
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I don't know your aspirations, but based solely off of your thread and post alone, I'd assume you made a huge mistake.
 
Wordead said:
So no periorbital/orbital infections, no orbit fractures?

These are pretty common things that shouldnt be waiting until the next day
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Periorbital cellulitis is oral antibiotics and often discharge paperwork.

Orbital cellulitis is IV antibiotics and admit.

Neither typically necessitates a call to ophtho from the ED.

Why am I calling an ophthalmologist for an orbital fracture? (I'm not - if anyone, it's ENT/OMFS.)

You want your patient blind? Call ophthalmology and ask them to come in to do a lateral canthotomy.

Actual eye stuff? I can initiate treatment on most of it. I can even talk to the opthalmologist if needed. But it doesn't mean they need to emergently see the patient right now in the ED without their fancy ophtho clinic tools.

Our opthalmologists agree with these general sentiments.
 
To get back on topic for a bit, does anyone have any insight into dermatopathology (via pathology residency) or pain management (via anesthesiology OR pm&r)? I feel like these could be candidates for modern lifestyle specialties...
 
Foot Fetish said:
To get back on topic for a bit, does anyone have any insight into dermatopathology (via pathology residency) or pain management (via anesthesiology OR pm&r)? I feel like these could be candidates for modern lifestyle specialties...
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Why not do rotations first? Thanks.
 
Foot Fetish said:
You don't know me or how hard I work/care, so don't make presumptions about that.
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I believe you were also presuming everyone else will work or care less than you...

Foot Fetish said:
I would honestly say that I work harder than the average student in my M1 class (and my grades lately are consistently above the class average, for the record).
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It's good your working hard-- it would be bad if you weren't.

Foot Fetish said:
Your assertion that physicians who pursue a great lifestyle have an inherently inferior work ethic as compared to their more idealistic counterparts is simply baseless conjecture. There is no data to support that; just your own gut feeling.
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Maybe no data, but the logic is clearly there: some people want to obtain more benefits for his or her efforts (it's pretty normal). This happens everywhere, and there's no reason to suspect that medicine is any different. For those who feel this way in medicine, you can reasonably expect they'll try to get into a lifestyle specialty where they have better pay for a given amount of work.

Foot Fetish said:
Quantity is not greater than quality when it comes to medicine. I would say that a very talented specialist who works 45 hours in which he/she is 100% focused and doing everything in his/her power to provide the highest quality of care is working harder than a physician who does 60 hours of average work in which they see tons of patients.
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I agree with your general idea, but you're then assuming that the physician working 60 hours is putting in less of his or her efforts and talents to care for patients and that's not necessarily true (which is similar to what you're knocking the other poster for :wacky:).


Foot Fetish said:
I think that's a backwards ideology and one which has perpetuated this culture of unnecessary distress that has become a rite of passage and a point of pride in the medical community. I think it's foolish to be proud of being overworked. We should be striving to work smarter, not brutishly harder.
Click to expand...
How are you defining "overworked"? Do you consider the idea that medicine is a profession that requires a lot of work and learning over your entire career? You have to be aware of that going into med school. You have to be okay with the fact that most people don't get the super competitive or cushy jobs (especially in an already competitive field like medicine). You have to ask yourself why you're doing it in the first place. I'm not saying you need some answer (I'm also not asking you to tell us) related to justice and all that, but you had to have had some reason for dedicating your life to continuously learning how to help people (especially knowing what it entails).

So many of your posts are centered around money...You're going to be more than fine with the profession you chose.
 
Medicine is not a calling. You were not born wanting to be a doctor. If all you want to do is help people, I strongly encourage you to GTFO now and become social worker. You will have much more 1 on 1 time helping people, guaranteed. Everyone who becomes a doctor did it with expectations of the career.

Consider the following scenario. There are 3 career options, each pay 50k: nurse, PA, doctor. You know how much school, time, and stress is associated with each. You also know the prestige and intellectual stimulation associated. Which do you choose? If you're an idiot, you picked doctor. Why? Because you could "help people" and earn the same amount by being a nurse. You could find intellectual stimulation in hobbies with all of your free time.

Pay is a HUGE reason why med school is so competitive. I'm really damn sick of all the liberal culture warriors in medicine too. I believe that if they choose to work 60 hours for 150k, they should be able to. The remainder of their pay can be distributed to less saint-like, selfless individuals.
 
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