Are UNC and UF better?

[brephos]

I re-created this thread in the normal section as I accidentally posted it here in the school specific thread.

How do I delete this dead end thread here in this location? I see all sorts of editing tools, but no delete.

Thanks for any reply.

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[brephos]

Oops I meant to put this here in general discussion and put it in school specific instead. Anybody know how to delete a thread, so I can remove it from there and go with this one here?

Anyway with what little I can find on the topic of school rankings - it looks like the best dental schools in the south are North Carolina and Florida. Is this generally true? I understand that location/cost/class size etc. all play a part and these two schools may not be best for everyone, but rankings seem to indicate that UNC and UF are well above the other schools in the south.

The website "startclass" ranks UNC (4) and UF (9) and that makes them the top dental schools in the south.

Also the 2017 QS World University Rankings on the web ranks UNC (12) and UF (47). This also asserts that these are the top two dental schools in the south and top 50 in the world.

Are North Carolina and Florida that much better than say Georgia or South Carolina which are ranked far lower? Perhaps the rankings are based on endowments or research papers ... or perhaps it is the quality of students? I noticed both UNC & UF avg class stats show higher GPA's/DAT's than many of the other schools. Perhaps this is why they are ranked higher, but this is just an observation on my part and may not matter in the rankings.

Interestingly, people talk about Harvard, but both polls rank UNC and UF higher than Harvard.

Are UNC/UF really better than the rest in the south (SC, GA, AL, UK, UofL, TENN, MS, TX, etc.) and why?

If someone has an informed opinion or an educated guess regarding this topic I'd appreciate your comments very much and I'm sure others would as well.

PS Bonus Question ... Are UNC and UF equivalent dental schools?

 

[caffeine jitters]

Startclass is a load of junk. For the millionth time, dental schools are not ranked. Both are great schools because they are cheap, develop strong clinicians, get decent chunks of funding for research, and attract high level faculty.

 

[brephos]

Thanks caffeine jitters for your reply ... but it does open up more questions and confuses me somewhat.

First, your millionth time saying that dental schools are not ranked was my first time hearing it. Because they are ranked...just google "best dental schools" and you'll see they are ranked. Not trying to be a smart-aleck ... but they are ranked.

Maybe what you are trying to say is that the rankings are not reliable and in that sense they are not real/trustworthy rankings? I'm good with that ... if that is what you mean.

Furthermore, when you said "smartclass" is a load of junk, I figured you would have a problem with UNC and UF as the top dental schools in the south and would challenge the ranking. But you didn't. You might have said something like - both are good schools, but probably no better than any other .... in fact they may be worse than Kentucky and Alabama.

But you seemed to in a broad sense agree with smartclass rankings - and even made a case for why UNC and UF might be better than the others. This, in my mind, actually substantiates the very ranking you did not want to recognize. Anyway - I'm not trying to argue - but make sense of your assertions that there are no rankings.

And what about "2017 QS World University Rankings?. Is that a load of junk also? Either way it supports the smartclass assertion that UNC and UF are the top dental schools in the south. Whether or not smartclass is a load of junk - I don't know. I'm certainly not trying to give you a hard time ... I'm just trying to figure out if some schools are substantially better than others by reputation and if there is a general perception that UNC and UF are better than other schools in the south and why? I mean Uof L and GA have relatively new facilities and Alabama is building new facilities - and UK has small class sizes ... I am looking for substantive thoughts that might elevate one school above another. You mentioned clinical opportunities at UF and UNC ... do they have more opportunities than other schools in the south?

Let me say again, I really appreciate your comments caffeine jitters ... I know you probably don't like rankings, but if you have an opinion what would you say are the top five dental schools in the south or is it a tie. UNC and UF are no better than South Carolina or Kentucky?

 

[WolfsBane]

Ok dude. I think what @caffeinejitters was trying to say is that the rankings are unreliable. I dont see why this needed to be a full-on story about what you think about all the schools but not withstanding ill try to explain what he was saying. These schools are amazing schools but in dental it is hard to quantify the "best" school. Some have awesome research, while others have great clinical education. Some prepare you better for OMFS or other specialties with the med school curriculum in D1/2. Others are P/F while others are ranked. This is why ranking a dental school is pointless. Hope this helps you in your understanding.

 

[Medin2017]

Thanks caffeine jitters for your reply ... but it does open up more questions and confuses me somewhat.

First, your millionth time saying that dental schools are not ranked was my first time hearing it. Because they are ranked...just google "best dental schools" and you'll see they are ranked. Not trying to be a smart-aleck ... but they are ranked.

Maybe what you are trying to say is that the rankings are not reliable and in that sense they are not real/trustworthy rankings? I'm good with that ... if that is what you mean.

Furthermore, when you said "smartclass" is a load of junk, I figured you would have a problem with UNC and UF as the top dental schools in the south and would challenge the ranking. But you didn't. You might have said something like - both are good schools, but probably no better than any other .... in fact they may be worse than Kentucky and Alabama.

But you seemed to in a broad sense agree with smartclass rankings - and even made a case for why UNC and UF might be better than the others. Which in my mind substantiates the very ranking you did not want to recognize. Anyway - I'm not trying to argue - but make sense of your assertions that there are no rankings.

And what about "2017 QS World University Rankings?. Is that a load of junk also? Either way it supports the smartclass assertion that UNC and UF are the top dental schools in the south. Whether or not smartclass is a load of junk - I don't know. I'm certainly not trying to give you a hard time ... I'm just trying to figure out if some schools are substantially better than others by reputation and if there is a general perception that UNC and UF are better than other schools in the south and why? I mean Uof L and GA have relatively new facilities and Alabama is building new facilities - and UK has small class sizes ... I am looking for substantive thoughts that might elevate one school above another. You mentioned clinical opportunities at UF and UNC ... do they have more opportunities than other schools in the south?

Let me say again, I really appreciate your comments caffeine jitters ... I know you probably don't like rankings, but if you have an opinion what would you say are the top five dental schools in the south or is it a tie. UNC and UF are no better than South Carolina or Kentucky?

They don't have a rank really because no one gives a damn what school you came from unless it's the ivies and even then it's very marginal compared to ivies in medicine. You need to start looking at tangible things (p/f, mandatory attendance or not, how many people match what residencies, price, etc) and make an educated decision. Those rankings you see are always based on stats, and as you know, if you want to specialize in dentistry, the higher the stats at your school, the harder it is to be top 10 if your school ranks. If you're talking patients, believe me no one cares. Even the very educated will check yelp or google reviews or doctor reviews or go by word of mouth over which dentist went to which school. Because in the end, we are not medical doctors, and going to a top level dental institution is not something that's really that extremely hard to achieve, I hate to say. That's why people don't look at rank but p/f, med based curriculums, matchrates, and price when discussing the caliber of the school.

Here's how I would rank schools (provided the applicant is not very competent and probably won't break top 20 at your average state school and still wants to specialize) from most important to least.
1) P/F and/or no rank
2) Medical curriculum
3) Price
4) Lack of mandatory attendance <-- just check medical forums to see how much of a disadvantage mandatory attendance is for both free time and studying for medical boards
5) silly things like vibe, teachers, research (unless you're going for ortho), clinical requirements, etc

I've talked to OMFS who said the ivy kids who were in their residency were terrible with hand skills. Guess what- they're still going to be OMFS in the end.

You need to read up more on these forums and see what you want to do though. If you're dead set on generalizing, my 2 cents are worthless. Also if you're dead set on generalizing, go cheap unless mom's fronting your bill. Most dentists on these forums say they teach you enough to not kill patients, no matter what school you go to.

 

[wengerout]

I’d honestly argue UAB rivals both of them if not exceeds them.

I nearly picked UAB over Columbia.

P.S. Any “rankings” you see for dental schools is fake news.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Roy Williams]

Idk anything about Florida but this is what I can say about unc. I honestly do think it's the best school, but obviously I'm biased and the only thing I can compare it to is based on what I hear from students at other schools.

I absolutely love it here. I remember when I was trying to choose between schools, there were some students at other schools that I asked if they enjoyed it there, and some answers were "ehh yeah it's fine I like it a lot" but the answers I got from students at UNC were much more passionate and 100% confident in their statement that they love it here. And I completely agree. I think it's important to find a school where you're going to be happy. In the long run, every school is gonna make you a dentist that barely knows enough to not be dangerous, so finding a place where you'll be happy for four years is important.

Regarding hearing things about being cutthroat because everything is graded and there are rankings, that does not exist at all. There are maybe 1-2 people out of the entire class that might just be here for themselves, but everywhere is very willing to help out. We have a huge pool of resources where everybody posts lots of study guides and things they make for other people to use for exams and stuff. So i'd say people are very willing to help out others. We all had a friendsgiving together and about 30 of us went to the mountains one weekend for fun. I don't think anybody in our class would describe this as a cutthroat environment. Students/faculty are very willing to help you if you are struggling/need help.

I'd say my favorite thing about the school is the faculty. I'd say all but one of my professors this semester is an absolutely fantastic lecturer. They also all really care about us learning and want us to excel. I'd say most of them even go out of their way to learn our names, so I really like that. Most of them really get to know us and want to know about us. We can joke around with them and stuff and it's awesome. We also got a new dean last year and he is fantastic. He's making some great changes to the school and also does his best to hold meetings where everyone can attend and ask questions and also has students over to his house for dinner too.

Another thing I really like is our building. It has a pretty cool look to it and everything is super nice. The lecture halls are really nice and almost all our classes are lecture captured so we can watch the lectures later so you don't have to go to class if you don't want. Each seat even has a little microphone button on the desk so that if someone asks a question during class, everyone in the room can hear it and it also gets recorded on the lecture capture.

Classmates are awesome. Obviously groups form (it's gonna happen everywhere, that's just how friend groups are), but for the most part everyone is great. We have things that we all do together (Friendsgiving, mountain weekend, etc.) but then you'll also find your group of people to hang out with too. I don't really know anyone that isn't loving it here (I realize there may be people I don't talk to, but I'd say that if anyone does feel that way, they are a strong minority).

Another thing I really like is the fact that we have residencies for all the different specialties. So if you want to go that route, you can definitely get your exposure. "The world is your oyster" is kind of a corny saying, but it really is true. Starting your very first year, you're allowed to start shadowing/assisting/scrubbing in in he OR for oral surgery, can assist in the peds department, and I'm sure all the other ones too. The faculty in these departments are also very willing to meet to discuss the pathway that needs to be taken to go that route and offer advice.

We also take boards after first year instead of second so I like that a lot too.

COL is relatively cheap. I budget and spend around $1100/month including rent/utilities/food which I think is cheaper than a lot of other places. Tuition is also way cheaper than a lot of places and if you are OOS, you can get IS after the first year.

Dental school is obviously not going to just be a breeze, but I definitely think UNC does a great job with easing you in. Not once have I felt overwhelmed, and I think the majority of students would agree with me. I obviously put in the work and try to manage my time well, but I can't say I've been stressed. But I'm also pretty level headed and easy going so that may also just be my personality. And this is coming from someone who did not major in a natural science, so I don't have a strong bio background. The courseload is absolutely manageable for most everyone here. I talked to a student at Penn when i was deciding and he was telling me about how he was trying to keep from crying in october and was just so stressed his first year. I realize this is just one person's anecdote so may not be a good representation.

We also have plenty of time to do fun things. I've talked to kids at other schools and they're like "oh yeah school is so time consuming, i maybe go out to dinner once a month". That's not at all true here. People go to football/basketball games most weekends, we had a class trip in november where we rented a big house up in the mountains and went away for a weekend, I've played golf a couple times, I went to a concert two weeks ago, I go out to eat with friends occasionally. If you work out, there's definitely time for that too. Basically, you'll have a chance to do what you like to have fun.

Overall, i love it here and don't regret it one bit. Some days i'm studying on my porch and just thinking how grateful I am that I go here and made the right choice.

Hope this was able to provide some insight!

 

[brephos]

1. Thanks everybody I put likes on all your posts. Just great stuff! I'm looking at schools in the south and feel the information on the board skews more to the northeast and west coast. I'm hoping for a well discussed and reasoned thread that can benefit us and students years from now. Nathangw wondered why I wanted a full on story - in part because the only real info I can find on this board on UNC vs UF - is from 2008 and essentially it says that "UNC girls are hotter than UF girls".
2. Nathangw - A full on story isn't needed, but it's what I like best. I'm not really a soundbite guy. I like discussion - I like reading and digesting - on a Sunday afternoon. There aren't really threads to speak of on the Southern Dental Schools. And when you say some have awesome research, while others have great clinical education. Which one's? - Iif somebody can put together a grid to tell what time a school will send out acceptance letters on Dec 1 - why do we have to dig like gophers to figure out which schools put more emphasis on clinical vs. research? For what it's worth - let me point out from what I can tell in the ADEA guide MUSC doesn't really do clinical until D3. On the other hand, the ADEA guide indicates that UK seems to get you going on clinical right out the gate in D1 - and UF is - I'm not sure. Maybe it's both - with simulated clinicals? But I don't really know which schools are better for research and clinical - in the south. What I do know is that on my visit to MUSC they were the only school that made a point of telling us we would have to write a major research paper during our D1 year and I definitely didn't like that. Anyway thanks again Nathangw for your input.
3. Medin2017 Good stuff - I've read your post several times already. One thing I would love to know and don't see in the ADEA guide is the matter of mandatory attendance. With that said - thanks to Roy Williams post I know UNC has open attendance and provides captured lectures. What other southern dental schools do this? Personally, Medin2017 - I'm not trying to definitively establish which schools are the best that doesn't seem possible- but I am hoping some people will chime in with what they believe makes certain schools special or unique beyond the 2008 thread that asserts UNC's girls are hotter than UF's. Which takes me to ...
4. wengerout - For me personally just a great post. It's short, but I love love that you shared your believe that UAB may actually be best school in the south. On my visit there I really got a good vibe. I'll add this - they let us know on my visit that they are building a new dental school. UAB appears to be an already strong school on the upswing. My focus in this thread is broader than just UNC or UF as the leading southern schools. My hope is that others will speak up like you did wengerout. Is UAB the best - I don't know - but it's funny that my original thread title was almost "Is UAB the best in the south / or the Hidden Gem of the South". I just didn't think it would draw as much attention as the UNC/UF title. Now that you spoke up for UAB in a completely not scientific way - we have perhaps helped some people to consider a school they might have otherwise overlooked. So thank you wengerout for stepping up and sharing your positive experience on UAB.
5. Roy Williams - Where do I begin - just a FANTASTIC post in my opinion. It sure helped me. I would love a similar post from somebody at UF. You were clear that this is your personal experience - but it certainly supports my feelings and experience from my visit to UNC in early November. I really appreciate your sharing about the passion of the students and the supportive environment. I previously referenced your comments about the flexibility in class attendance and recorded lectures.
Hopefully, others will chime in for other southern schools that I suspect many have limited knowledge of like West Virginia and UK. Personally, I would really love it if somebody would give UK the "wengerout" treatment. There are serveral threads on U of L vs UK - but I would love someone to focus on just UK.
I know no - one can definitively say which school is best ... but since I'm trying to decide where to go and deposits are due soon ... any and all comments are greatly appreciated by me and honestly I suspect others who have to make decisions in the near future and do not currently have an absolute #1 top choice school.

 

[Medin2017]

3. Medin2017 Good stuff - I've read your post several times already. One thing I would love to know and don't see in the ADEA guide is the matter of mandatory attendance. With that said - thanks to Roy Williams post I know UNC has open attendance and provides captured lectures. What other southern dental schools do this? Personally, Medin2017 - I'm not trying to definitively establish which schools are the best that doesn't seem possible- but I am hoping some people will chime in with what they believe makes certain schools special or unique beyond the 2008 thread that asserts UNC's girls are hotter than UF's. Which takes me to ...

You can't know unless you talk to interviewers, students, or faculty. And it can change at the drop of a hat. For example a school can be lenient on attendance and then suddenly faculty feel they aren't respected and cry out to administrators, or administrators themselves change and see that mandatory attendance is stupid.

If you're seeing what makes a school unique based on posters, it's gonna be tough. Because some people might say a school has great comraderie while a same student at said school may say it's cliquish or full of immature people etc. But I think you're looking for variables that I don't find important so I guess you should keep asking others. I personally don't care about anything other than meeting my goal of specializing, and unfortunately my school has a bunch of the things I listed above that were not ideal for doing so. Do you have any idea if you want to specialize? It will completely change the conversation. If you're going for general dentistry, I think school doesn't matter at all: everyone passes the boards, dental school is pretty easy if you're looking to pass, and you get good outside of school or do GPRs (from what I've heard/read). You're going to have a pretty easy time- people with 3.2s and 18 DATs coast through dental school just fine and like 1/100 people fail a year. My friends going for general probably study less than they did in undergrad, and it seems pretty fun.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

According to the Big Hoss 2017-2018 World’s Most Friggin Awesome Dental School rankings, the #1 school is always the cheapest school you get into. Do you need any more trusted source than this?

Big Hoss

 

[WolfsBane]

According to the Big Hoss 2017-2018 World’s Most Friggin Awesome Dental School rankings, the #1 school is always the cheapest school you get into. Do you need any more trusted source than this?

Big Hoss

@bigtimehoosier man your my idol lol. I agree a thousand percent. Always choose the cheapest school.