Are you happy with your current job?

[GravelRider]

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Our peers in the tech industry are much more willing to dictate their terms and vote with their feet. They clearly know their worth in the system and how their value contributes to profit.

Our system is antiquated by comparison.

Do they have restrictive covenants in their contracts? To be honest, Facebook would probably have a better case enforcing a restrictive covenant against a software engineer who goes to work for Apple than say NAPA does against an anesthesiologist.

 

[deleted697127]

Before you get too jealous of that tech job, just mentally wind back the clock to the dotcom crash and what happened to all those high rollin' tech jobs. Or the housing crash.

It can be a violently cyclic industry. Nobody really dwells on job security or lack thereof until the layoffs hit. Income via stock options is the gift the market giveth and can taketh away. And for all the remote working in that industry, most of those people still live in or near a tech hub like the Bay Area where it's stupid-expensive to live.

Meanwhile despite the ongoing mid-level scare, no one really doubts that any of us have the ability to stroll into virtually any city and any state and earn $300-400K or even better on day 1.

I quit that world to go to medical school in 1997 and don't regret it at all. As a med student a lot of my tech friends had jobs that just ... blew up.

I don’t know man. The further into my 30s I get the more I feel like I was lied to about how hard it is to make a reliable salary doing something other than medicine.

Seems like all my friends are doing just fine in every industry aside from teaching. I doubt your friends in tech who got laid off are still looking for jobs.

On the other hand, I do know a few people who didn’t make it through med school or residency or didn’t match who are stuck with a hopeless amount of debt and actually poor career prospects.

 

[nimbus]

Do they have restrictive covenants in their contracts? To be honest, Facebook would probably have a better case enforcing a restrictive covenant against a software engineer who goes to work for Apple than say NAPA does against an anesthesiologist.

Apple Aims to Prevent Defections to Meta With Rare $180,000 Bonuses for Top Talent

www.bloomberg.com

“Apple is waging a talent war with companies in Silicon Valley and beyond, with Meta emerging as a particular threat. Meta has hired about 100 engineers from Apple in the last few months, but it hasn’t been a one-way street: Apple also has lured away key Meta employees.

The two companies are likely to become fierce rivals in augmented- and virtual-reality headsets and smartwatches, with both planning major hardware releases over the next two years.”

 

[anbuitachi]

I don’t know man. The further into my 30s I get the more I feel like I was lied to about how hard it is to make a reliable salary doing something other than medicine.

Seems like all my friends are doing just fine in every industry aside from teaching. I doubt your friends in tech who got laid off are still looking for jobs.

On the other hand, I do know a few people who didn’t make it through med school or residency or didn’t match who are stuck with a hopeless amount of debt and actually poor career prospects.

my teacher friends are doing decent too (depending on how you look at it). there's real career growth (if you are into that) according to them, lot of flexibility and plenty of time off (summer vacation etc). there is also pension which is a lot of money. it's just hard to compare because no offense to teachers the barrier to entry to become a teacher is much lower than a doctor.

i think people seriously underestimate the value of pension in some of these jobs. but all people look at in the news these days is who makes more. without looking at benefits, and investment cost, etc

 

[deleted941485]

I doubt that the majority of Amazon employees/engineers are getting paid 625k. However, the majority of anesthesiologists should be between 400-600k.

Nah man those are Amazon management numbers probably. These companies run on computer engineers imported from all over the world.

 

[deleted941485]

I don’t know man. The further into my 30s I get the more I feel like I was lied to about how hard it is to make a reliable salary doing something other than medicine.

Seems like all my friends are doing just fine in every industry aside from teaching. I doubt your friends in tech who got laid off are still looking for jobs.

On the other hand, I do know a few people who didn’t make it through med school or residency or didn’t match who are stuck with a hopeless amount of debt and actually poor career prospects.

People used to frown when I said law school. Honestly my friends that did it actually did well. They were making six figures well before I left med school. They buy some really nice homes. One of my friends just made partner at her firm. Now making around about 650K lives that nice lifestyle and drives a 911 Porsche. She works hard but not as hard as you would think.

Does she feel guilty? **** no

Does she worry about the cost of her services? Ha! You can’t pay her then she doesn’t work for you!

Does she worry about paralegals taking her job? LOL

There are most certainly drawbacks to law school and a lot of people get boned but honestly the ones who got after it did well.

Another friend worked for google started as an engineer at 25 and then got smart and realized all the money is on the management side. Just bought a house in Walnut Creek with a kid on the way.

 

[Stank811]

its funny i used to hang out/talk to my software engineering friends pretty often and then covid hit and i kind of stopped. today i read an blog piece by a software engineer and it reminded of them again and how much they get paid. and then i remembered again how behind i am to people who started working after college.

My Path to Financial Independence as a Software Engineer

One of the watershed moments of my life was as a 20 year old intern attending a workplace presentation about personal finance. Over the course of one hour, I learnt about the power of buy-and-hold …

software.rajivprab.com

View attachment 347308

~34-35 year old with 625k salary and 2.4m net worth. with probably reasonable working hours, great benefits/perks. truly not bad. curious what it'd be when these kids are in their 40s. 7 figures?

Anesthesiologist can easily achieve this salary if they are willing to move anywhere in the country and work for it. In regards to the net worth, impressive but I would personally rather spend more on a yearly basis.

 

[GravelRider]

Anesthesiologist can easily achieve this salary if they are willing to move anywhere in the country and work for it. In regards to the net worth, impressive but I would personally rather spend more on a yearly basis.

You would rather spend more than have a high net worth? In the above example of a 34 year old with a 2.4 million net worth and a salary of 625k, that person can spend all of their salary and not add a dime to their nest egg for 30 years and still have well over $10 million invested and saved by the time they are 65 with a pretty mindless and conservative investing plan. Do not underestimate the advantage of earning high salaries earlier in life. That is by far the biggest disadvantage to a career in medicine.

 

[deleted941485]

You would rather spend more than have a high net worth? In the above example of a 34 year old with a 2.4 million net worth and a salary of 625k, that person can spend all of their salary and not add a dime to their nest egg for 30 years and still have well over $10 million invested and saved by the time they are 65 with a pretty mindless and conservative investing plan. Do not underestimate the advantage of earning high salaries earlier in life. That is by far the biggest disadvantage to a career in medicine.

After 4 years out and no where near this guys net worth and also not spending all that much, I finally have become painfully aware of that workforce delay.

 

[kidthor]

After 4 years out and no where near this guys net worth and also not spending all that much, I finally have become painfully aware of that workforce delay.

Me too. When I do projections on how much I'll have when I retire, it's shocking how much more just a few more years of compounding makes.

Also shocking is how much I responsibly paid for my student loans only to now have my tax money siphoned off for other people's student loan forgiveness.

It'd be the jackpot to have few loans, start income earning in one's 20s, and build build build. Granted I'm doing OK now... but retrospectively I wouldn't have gone into medicine if I truly understood the financial and life implications - especially knowing the soul crush of where my taxes go.

 

[agammaglobulin]

I know several amazon employees and they easily make 500K/yr. Amazon maxes out at $150Kish salary, and the rest of compensation is in form of bonuses and STOCK. Amazon stock has doubled every 2-4 years for the past 10 years. So if your compensation package is $150K base plus $300K in stock (average for L7 manager), with stock doubling every couple years, you're doing just fine.

 

[Twiggidy]

People used to frown when I said law school. Honestly my friends that did it actually did well. They were making six figures well before I left med school. They buy some really nice homes. One of my friends just made partner at her firm. Now making around about 650K lives that nice lifestyle and drives a 911 Porsche. She works hard but not as hard as you would think.

Does she feel guilty? **** no

Does she worry about the cost of her services? Ha! You can’t pay her then she doesn’t work for you!

Does she worry about paralegals taking her job? LOL

There are most certainly drawbacks to law school and a lot of people get boned but honestly the ones who got after it did well.

Another friend worked for google started as an engineer at 25 and then got smart and realized all the money is on the management side. Just bought a house in Walnut Creek with a kid on the way.

One reason I feel like I should've done law school is the flexibility. There are many avenues that you can travel down with a law degree as long as you're ok not trying to be a millionaire partner. If you pick the wrong field in medicine then that's it, you're done. Are there more out of work or struggling lawyers than there are out of work or struggling physicians. Probably, but I think you make a great point. Those of us in this field with the drive to successful and who became a success, probably would've done so if we decide to do law.

So myself not being everyone's favorite person in residency, still managed to graduate and complete a fellowship, so I like to think if I applied that to law I probably would've had a decent career post JD whether that were in the private sector, government, or even Hollywood or sports.

 

[GravelRider]

After 4 years out and no where near this guys net worth and also not spending all that much, I finally have become painfully aware of that workforce delay.

When you put student loans into the picture, it is easily equivalent to a 12-15 year delay. Even if these software engineers were making half of what the average anesthesiologist makes, that headstart is still an enormous advantage.

 

[Twiggidy]

I know several amazon employees and they easily make 500K/yr. Amazon maxes out at $150Kish salary, and the rest of compensation is in form of bonuses and STOCK. Amazon stock has doubled every 2-4 years for the past 10 years. So if your compensation package is $150K base plus $300K in stock (average for L7 manager), with stock doubling every couple years, you're doing just fine.

It's the stock options that really burns us compare to tech fields. Every dollar in our field that is viewed as profit based on the worth of the work we do goes into someone else's pocket whether that's the insurance company not giving the smaller practices the reimbursement contracts they give to the big AMCs/etc or the AMCs getting those good insurance contracts and only paying you cents on the dollar.

 

[deleted941485]

I know several amazon employees and they easily make 500K/yr. Amazon maxes out at $150Kish salary, and the rest of compensation is in form of bonuses and STOCK. Amazon stock has doubled every 2-4 years for the past 10 years. So if your compensation package is $150K base plus $300K in stock (average for L7 manager), with stock doubling every couple years, you're doing just fine.

Yeah…the problem is I’m sure the people that worked at AT&T or Bell thought the same way about their stock.

 

[CHARLESTONMMM]

Do software engineers get a 3.5% cut in government contract pay every year or does that only apply to physicians? My kids won’t make the same mistake as I did if I can help it.

 

[GassYous]

I know several amazon employees and they easily make 500K/yr. Amazon maxes out at $150Kish salary, and the rest of compensation is in form of bonuses and STOCK. Amazon stock has doubled every 2-4 years for the past 10 years. So if your compensation package is $150K base plus $300K in stock (average for L7 manager), with stock doubling every couple years, you're doing just fine.

Yeah like enron

 

[MirrorTodd]

I am officially unhappy with my job. Why? Because I have not been paid. Why? Because somehow I have still been receiving housing allowance for Maryland and so they decided to just stop my pay. This is after I had already notified them of the issue multiple times and submitted the required paperwork to fix the issue.

 

[psychbender]

I am officially unhappy with my job. Why? Because I have not been paid. Why? Because somehow I have still been receiving housing allowance for Maryland and so they decided to just stop my pay. This is after I had already notified them of the issue multiple times and submitted the required paperwork to fix the issue.

The big green weenie strikes again. Have you started a countdown click yet?

 

[GassYous]

I am officially unhappy with my job. Why? Because I have not been paid. Why? Because somehow I have still been receiving housing allowance for Maryland and so they decided to just stop my pay. This is after I had already notified them of the issue multiple times and submitted the required paperwork to fix the issue.

No pay no work

 

[MirrorTodd]

The big green weenie strikes again. Have you started a countdown click yet?

Still too early. Lol I might start a countdown with <2 years left.

 

[MirrorTodd]

That don't fly so well in the Army.

No pay no work

I should still mention that I still love the job. Super chill despite being a trauma center. I like working with residents, even though I don't feel like a "teacher" yet. Work hours are cush, nobody really hassles me throughout the day with micromanager by etc etc

 

[GassYous]

That don't fly so well in the Army.


I should still mention that I still love the job. Super chill despite being a trauma center. I like working with residents, even though I don't feel like a "teacher" yet. Work hours are cush, nobody really hassles me throughout the day with micromanager by etc etc

It's the little things. I am taking less pay for more feeling of ownership and flexibility over my schedule.

 

[sethco]

I know several amazon employees and they easily make 500K/yr. Amazon maxes out at $150Kish salary, and the rest of compensation is in form of bonuses and STOCK. Amazon stock has doubled every 2-4 years for the past 10 years. So if your compensation package is $150K base plus $300K in stock (average for L7 manager), with stock doubling every couple years, you're doing just fine.

I'm as big of a fan of Amazon as anyone when it comes to their stock. After all, they do make a very heavy portion of my Total US Stock index. However, how long do you think it will continuing doubling every 2-4 years? History is littered with former industry juggernauts that were once deemed to big to fail, become bankrupt. If I was an employee and have more than half of my income tied up in stock options, I would sell a good portion as soon as allowed to diversify away from single company risk. Here's an article from WCI that tells a very cautionary tale. Obviously we are shouldn't compare Amazon to this company, but you get the point of putting all your eggs in one basket

5 Diversification Errors That Are Increasing Your Portfolio Risk | White Coat Investor

The best way to manage individual stock (or bond) risk is to have a diversified portfolio. Here are the five biggest errors I see in portfolios with respect to diversification and how to solve them.

www.whitecoatinvestor.com

 

[BLADEMDA]

I spent 2/3 of my career supervising crnas. As I enter the final phase of my career I really dislike the supervision model. I much prefer to do my own cases. This way I can control the quality of care from start to finish without worrying about the actions of A mid level provider. I regret choosing a field where I am forced to supervise others who are sometimes very mediocre at best. Yes, some of you lucky enough to do your own cases or cover 1;2 with real direction. Sadly, that is not the case for most of us these days.

 

[OptionOffense]

I spent 2/3 of my career supervising crnas. As I enter the final phase of my career I really dislike the supervision model. I much prefer to do my own cases. This way I can control the quality of care from start to finish without worrying about the actions of A mid level provider. I regret choosing a field where I am forced to supervise others who are sometimes very mediocre at best. Yes, some of you lucky enough to do your own cases or cover 1;2 with real direction. Sadly, that is not the case for most of us these days.

The supervision model CAN work if the CRNAS do exactly what you tell them to but in this political environment telling them what you want to see the patient receive will get you labelled disruptive, and all sorts of things and get you fired. ive seen it. So its easier cleaning up the mess then trying to prevent things or just doing your own cases which is where I am at. I just do it myself. If more and more people adopt my mentality the ACT model WILL collapse, which isnt my problem.

 

[Mman]

The supervision model CAN work if the CRNAS do exactly what you tell them to but in this political environment telling them what you want to see the patient receive will get you labelled disruptive, and all sorts of things and get you fired. ive seen it. So its easier cleaning up the mess then trying to prevent things or just doing your own cases which is where I am at. I just do it myself. If more and more people adopt my mentality the ACT model WILL collapse, which isnt my problem.

ACT model works just fine when the CRNAs are your employees

 

[amyl]

I’m happy. I work hard and that’s reflected in my paycheck, benefits etc. Wish the world would open up so I can travel more.

 

[ChiDO]

This is a depressing thread, 65% voted that something is making you unhappy.

 

[GassYous]

This is a depressing thread, 65% voted that something is making you unhappy.

No job is 100% perfect
Even the ones that are banking work hard for that cash

 

[nimbus]

This is a depressing thread, 65% voted that something is making you unhappy.

Key to happiness or satisfaction is low expectations. I mean I get all excited when a record setting dildo gets pulled of someone’s a**. “What a great job I have! We really helped that person🙂” Or when I get a very tight ring off. Pt says, “you’ll never get it off. It’s been there for 40 years.” Me, “Here you go.”

 

[ValentineD]

When you put student loans into the picture, it is easily equivalent to a 12-15 year delay. Even if these software engineers were making half of what the average anesthesiologist makes, that headstart is still an enormous advantage.

I mean this bloke amassed $2.4 million dollars over 12 years with a salary that pales in comparison to that of the average anesthesiologist. Only during his last 3 years did he make a comparable salary, and in that period his personal wealth jumped >$1 million dollars. Presumably over a period of 12 years the average anesthesiologist would outperform him if they too lived on ~$30k.

This sort of comparison is also foolish. The average American is not a 22 year old earning six figures working at a tech company. The average American earns something like ~$37k. Keep your eyes on your own paper otherwise you will give yourself depression.

 

[GassYous]

I mean this bloke amassed $2.4 million dollars over 12 years with a salary that pales in comparison to that of the average anesthesiologist. Only during his last 3 years did he make a comparable salary, and in that period his personal wealth jumped >$1 million dollars. Presumably over a period of 12 years the average anesthesiologist would outperform him if they too lived on ~$30k.

This sort of comparison is also foolish. The average American is not a 22 year old earning six figures working at a tech company. The average American earns something like ~$37k. Keep your eyes on your own paper otherwise you will give yourself depression.

I think the hardest thing is seeing all the taxes and bs getting taken out before you see a cent

 

[narcotics999]

Do they have restrictive covenants in their contracts? To be honest, Facebook would probably have a better case enforcing a restrictive covenant against a software engineer who goes to work for Apple than say NAPA does against an anesthesiologist.

Generally no unless you are at very high level (executive VP etc). That is why in CA, non-compete is basically non-enforceable, even for doctors.

If you have plans to do locums in CA, ask the recruiters to remove the non-compete clause.

 

[GravelRider]

I mean this bloke amassed $2.4 million dollars over 12 years with a salary that pales in comparison to that of the average anesthesiologist. Only during his last 3 years did he make a comparable salary, and in that period his personal wealth jumped >$1 million dollars. Presumably over a period of 12 years the average anesthesiologist would outperform him if they too lived on ~$30k.

This sort of comparison is also foolish. The average American is not a 22 year old earning six figures working at a tech company. The average American earns something like ~$37k. Keep your eyes on your own paper otherwise you will give yourself depression.

It doesn’t make sense for you to say we shouldn’t compare an anesthesiologist to a software engineer, but then exactly one sentence later compare an anesthesiologist to an average American making $37k a year. Why is one comparison ok, but the other is not?

The point of my posts, if you follow them, is to say that time is just as important a factor in building wealth/net worth as absolute salary. Student loans decrease your available wealth-building years in life. As physician salaries continue to decrease in comparison to other high-earning fields, the time investment to become a physician becomes less of an obvious choice. A software engineer making $200k at age 24 might be better off than an anesthesiologist who doesn’t see a $450k salary until age 35. Every case is individual, but time loss is a big factor people should consider when thinking about career choices.

Edit: Just thinking about this further, that software engineer making $200k can pretty easily amass a net worth of $1 million by age 35 by “living like a resident.” At that point, that software engineer can basically just max out their 401k every year and spend the rest of their $200k salary and have a net worth over $10 million by age 65. The anesthesiologist will be able to catch up, but will spend many nights sleeping in a hospital in order to get there.

Time is the most valuable resource.

 

[chocomorsel]

People used to frown when I said law school. Honestly my friends that did it actually did well. They were making six figures well before I left med school. They buy some really nice homes. One of my friends just made partner at her firm. Now making around about 650K lives that nice lifestyle and drives a 911 Porsche. She works hard but not as hard as you would think.

Does she feel guilty? **** no

Does she worry about the cost of her services? Ha! You can’t pay her then she doesn’t work for you!

Does she worry about paralegals taking her job? LOL

There are most certainly drawbacks to law school and a lot of people get boned but honestly the ones who got after it did well.

Another friend worked for google started as an engineer at 25 and then got smart and realized all the money is on the management side. Just bought a house in Walnut Creek with a kid on the way.

But she’s a lawyer. Which the job alone requires lying and playing people against each other for money.
What’s her personality type? I gotta be able to sleep at night.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

But she’s a lawyer. Which the job alone requires lying and playing people against each other for money.
What’s her personality type? I gotta be able to sleep at night.

you get to sleep at night as an iCU doc?

 

[chocomorsel]

you get to sleep at night as an iCU doc?

Yup. The patient is the one with the problem. And I have a clean conscience of not playing with other peoples’ lives for money.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Yup. The patient is the one with the problem. And I have a clean conscious of not playing with other peoples’ lives for money.

ah I see you have read the House of God.

 

[chocomorsel]

ah I see you have read the House of God.

Great book.

 

[nimbus]

But she’s a lawyer. Which the job alone requires lying and playing people against each other for money.
What’s her personality type? I gotta be able to sleep at night.

You can make a nice living giving advice about trusts and estate planning without lying to anyone.

 

[deleted941485]

But she’s a lawyer. Which the job alone requires lying and playing people against each other for money.
What’s her personality type? I gotta be able to sleep at night.

She’s pretty normal. I mean I’m not married to her but I’m not getting the sense she’s burnt out I like say 70% of people on SDN It’s all corporate law so take from that what you will. She probably sleeps just fine.