Are you out there, Mr. Average?

[BlondeDocteur]

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Averages can describe big groups-- like all medical students and residents in the US-- well. But there doesn't necessarily have to be one member of the group who is perfectly average. If you calculate averages for enough factors, the probability of any one member of the class representing the average for all of them gets smaller and smaller.

So that being said, I'm curious: is there a *perfectly* average medical student/resident out there? Does such a person exist?

To compete, you have to be:

1) Male (http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/2008summary2.htm)

2) Caucasian (http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/enrllbyraceeth0308.htm)

3) An allopathic student/grad (total MD matriculants: ~18,000; total DO matriculants: ~2000 a few years ago)

4) Have your undergraduate degree in Biology: (http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/mcatgpabymaj08.htm)

5) Undergrad GPA of 3.63 (http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/2008mcatgpa.htm)

6) MCAT of 30 (http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/2008mcatgpa.htm)

7) Step 1 of 215 (50th %ile in most administrations)

8) In Internal Medicine (http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2007/erasspecialtybysex2007bb.htm)

9) Went in-state to their state medical school (http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/schoolenrll0308.htm)

10) 24 upon enrollment, 28 at graduation (http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/2008/age0208.htm)

11) Have at least one publication (charting outcomes, pp 31)

12) Matched at one of their top 3 on their rank list

13) Graduated at the 50th %ile in their class

 

[ranmyaku]

10/12

Can't make it 11/13 b/c match day is not here yet.

 

[Long Dong]

At my residency interviews I told them I'm just an average guy, so I have to over compensate for my averageness and go kinda of OCD when it comes to exams because I'm not naturally smart like most posters on SDN.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

10/12

Can't make it 11/13 b/c match day is not here yet.

For reals? That's fantastic.

 

[gutonc]

10.5/13

24 upon enrollement but I did MD/PhD so graduation took longer. And my GPA was 3.65 but I figure that's close enough.

 

[Doowai]

Whats the prize?

 

[flumazenil]

I am under average..does that get me a prize?
Seriously folks, I am under average ( pretend I am yelling that)
oh- and im damn proud of it
..back to my drink..

 

[Danbo1957]

1) Male Yes
2) Caucasian Yes
3) An allopathic student/grad Yes
4) Have your undergraduate degree in Biology: Chemistry and Phylosphy
5) Undergrad GPA of 3.63 3.88
6) MCAT of 30 38
7) Step 1 of 215 252
8) In Internal Medicine Yes
(9) Went in-state to their state medical school Yes
10) 24 upon enrollment, 28 at graduation 22 1/2
11) Have at least one publication Yes
12) Matched at one of their top 3 on their rank list 1
13) Graduated at the 50th %ile in their class 10%ile

 

[Doowai]

1) Male Yes
2) Caucasian Yes
3) An allopathic student/grad Yes
4) Have your undergraduate degree in Biology: Chemistry and Phylosphy
5) Undergrad GPA of 3.63 3.88
6) MCAT of 30 38
7) Step 1 of 215 252
8) In Internal Medicine Yes
(9) Went in-state to their state medical school Yes
10) 24 upon enrollment, 28 at graduation 22 1/2
11) Have at least one publication Yes
12) Matched at one of their top 3 on their rank list 1
13) Graduated at the 50th %ile in their class 10%ile

Ok, so that is a NO.

In January I went from teaching high school to teaching college bio (Ok I now substitute on Tuesdays at the HS since I really enjoy it there). Some of my students have really high GPA's. One girl wants to be a path assistant. I tried to convince her to go to med school and then to path residency. She shot down the idea. After listening to her reasons, I certainly felt she was far smarter than many who persue medicine - may not end up as educated - but since she does not care, why should I?

So what is the point of finding the perfect average here, BD? Whats the prize and for whom? For "him" or for you?

 

[ineedsleep]

1) Male nope
2) Caucasian yes
3) An allopathic student/grad yes
4) Have your undergraduate degree in Biology: Biology and English
5) Undergrad GPA of 3.63 3.89
6) MCAT of 30 29
7) Step 1 of 215 above
8) In Internal Medicine god no
(9) Went in-state to their state medical school yep, cheap
10) 24 upon enrollment, 28 at graduation 22/26
11) Have at least one publication not yet
12) Matched at one of their top 3 on their rank list no, number 7
13) Graduated at the 50th %ile in their class above that.

So I'm not exactly average.

 

[SLUser11]

Averages can describe big groups-- like all medical students and residents in the US-- well. But there doesn't necessarily have to be one member of the group who is perfectly average....

So, while you didn't find an average medical student, you did create an average SDN thread: Starts off about one topic, and quickly transforms into a "look how awesome I am" topic. The only thing left is for a premed to come in here and ask the WAMC question.

There has to be some sort of equation to predict this.....

 

[Doowai]

So, while you didn't find an average medical student, you did create an average SDN thread: Starts off about one topic, and quickly transforms into a "look how awesome I am" topic. The only thing left is for a premed to come in here and ask the WAMC question.

There has to be some sort of equation to predict this.....

You mean a premed to come on here and ask "what are my chances of being average?"

 

[BlondeDocteur]

Ok, so that is a NO.

Exactly.. why bother posting?

So what is the point of finding the perfect average here, BD? Whats the prize and for whom? For "him" or for you?

Jeez, bunch of grasping overachievers here wanting prizes. I dunno... I have this violent video game sitting on my desk I was planning on giving my brother. Since the winner has to be a dude, how about Gears of War II?

 

[Doowai]

Exactly.. why bother posting?



Jeez, bunch of grasping overachievers here wanting prizes. I dunno... I have this violent video game sitting on my desk I was planning on giving my brother. Since the winner has to be a dude, how about Gears of War II?

LOL..... ok I am going to assume you are being sarcastic by calling ME an overachiever.... and I might meet one of the criteria.... but Gears of War is an awesome prize. Good choice.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

So, while you didn't find an average medical student, you did create an average SDN thread: Starts off about one topic, and quickly transforms into a "look how awesome I am" topic. The only thing left is for a premed to come in here and ask the WAMC question.

There has to be some sort of equation to predict this.....

I know... very odd. It's like "well, I'm actually an Eskimo trans-man who graduated first from my medical school in Sierra Leone, and oh yeah I scored a 285 and am in congenital dermatosurgery of the nervous system, but I'll reply anyway."

Let's see...

Solve for x, where x = chance person needs to ego-stroke him/herself in forum

x= 1/(Age- 23) * (1/(probability of having held real job) * (chance Step 1 score was >240) - (likelihood of getting hit on in bar)

 

[HCE]

You mean a premed to come on here and ask "what are my chances of being average?"

I suspect its not 50-50, but I don't do math....well, I'm about average in math.

 

[Doowai]

I suspect its not 50-50, but I don't do math....well, I'm about average in math.

I struggle with math to but maybe its more like 60-70

 

[SocialistMD]

Solve for x, where x = chance person needs to ego-stroke him/herself in forum

x= 1/(Age- 23) * (1/(probability of having held real job) * (chance Step 1 score was >240) - (likelihood of getting hit on in bar)

Your equation is flawed; you can't divide by zero.
Other suggestions for change:
1. It should be points over 240 on Step 1, not chance.
2. Age needs to be clarified to "Age at matriculation."

Otherwise, that is a pretty good start. What is your "average" score, and what determines someone who needs an ego stroke?

 

[Doowai]

BD = "looking for Mr.Average"

BD, are you using this as your own Match.com?

 

[OldPsychDoc]

You mean a premed to come on here and ask "what are my chances of being average?"

Well, it would be about 68% for someone within +/- 1 standard deviation of the mean...

(And if Blonde Docteur is looking for Mr. Average, I think she could be accused of lowering her standards!)

 

[HCE]

(And if Blonde Docteur is looking for Mr. Average, I think she could be accused of lowering her standards!)

I might add that, looking at Blonde Docteur's avatar, she/he is a fine young American.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

Your equation is flawed; you can't divide by zero.

Very astute. And I suppose we don't want to mess around with asymptotes.

Otherwise, that is a pretty good start. What is your "average" score, and what determines someone who needs an ego stroke?

OK, so refining the equation:

x= 1/(Age[m]- 23) *[1 - (probability of having held real job)] * (Step 1 score - 240) - (likelihood of getting hit on in bar)

Solving for aforementioned Eskimo neurodermatosurgeon:
x = {{(1/[23-23])*[1-0]*(285-240) - (0) = 45}}
{{}} = absolute value, by the way

So 0 - 45 is the range.

0-10: normal people could actually converse with you
10-20: you whip it out every now and again, but we'll deal
20-30: ego has little worn spots from repeated auto-stimulation
30-45: ego is a quivering mass of jelly plaintively crying out for attention

 

[BlondeDocteur]

I might add that, looking at Blonde Docteur's avatar, she/he is a fine young American.

Quite literally *wrapped* in the American flag.

Guy tapped me on the shoulder in Penn Station. Said he wanted to make me a model. Went the path so many have gone down before me (Madonna, Vanessa Williams)...

Med school ain't cheap, friends. Don't judge.

 

[Doowai]

Quite literally *wrapped* in the American flag.

Guy tapped me on the shoulder in Penn Station. Said he wanted to make me a model. Went the path so many have gone down before me (Madonna, Vanessa Williams)...

Med school ain't cheap, friends. Don't judge.

So is that literally you in your avatar?

 

[BlondeDocteur]

A lady never tells...

 

[Doowai]

A lady never tells...

Thanks. Seriously. I have really enjoyed disliking you over the last 2 years, and with your recent flurry of humor and self-effacing comments I have almost considered finding you likeable. If you also proved to be hot I would have to bow to the trifecta. Not knowing really IS much better for me....

 

[BlondeDocteur]

BD = "looking for Mr.Average"

BD, are you using this as your own Match.com?

Doowai, Match.com is for quick'n'dirty booty. I'm looking for LOVE.

I do wonder, though, if it would have gotten more responses had it been written in match style?

"Wow, I never do this, but some friends made me sign up. Lol ok here it goes. I'm just an average girl I guess. Like going out, listening to music, doing stuff. I'm looking for a guy who's da same (average- lmao). A 5'10", white dude, kinda built (I'm totally into pecs). Scored about a 3.6, 30, 215. Into puppies (gotta love my Mr.Frisky!! lol ), undergraduate biology and internal medicine. Stayed local for school, got what he wants out of life (i.e. matched to top 3 on rank list). About 28 years old. If you're still reading this drop me a line! I'd love to chill wit u!"

xoxoxox blueeyes26

 

[BlondeDocteur]

Thanks. Seriously. I have really enjoyed disliking you over the last 2 years, and with your recent flurry of humor and self-effacing comments I have almost considered finding you likeable. If you also proved to be hot I would have to bow to the trifecta. Not knowing really IS much better for me....

Thank GOD you have finally come to grips with my super-coolness.

 

[McGillGrad]

Did you really feel it necessary to post your above average stats to make yourself feel better in front on the internet? Are you not getting the positive attention you need from your peers?

1) Male Yes
2) Caucasian Yes
3) An allopathic student/grad Yes
4) Have your undergraduate degree in Biology: Chemistry and Phylosphy
5) Undergrad GPA of 3.63 3.88
6) MCAT of 30 38
7) Step 1 of 215 252
8) In Internal Medicine Yes
(9) Went in-state to their state medical school Yes
10) 24 upon enrollment, 28 at graduation 22 1/2
11) Have at least one publication Yes
12) Matched at one of their top 3 on their rank list 1
13) Graduated at the 50th %ile in their class 10%ile

 

[Doowai]

Did you really feel it necessary to post your above average stats to make yourself feel better in front on the internet? Are you not getting the positive attention you need from your peers?

I don't know, maybe he is just participating - despite being an average, few will meet all the criteria - so maybe we can give the video game prize to whomever comes closest. I meet 4 of the criteria, and possibly more after the match. Any prizes for runner ups?

But on the other hand - I would bet a certain amount of emotional need accompanies many overachievers. Maybe not always the need for attention, but to satisfy some type of emotional need.

 

[Danbo1957]

Interesting reactions - I just filled out the form as a lark, it being so long ago that I graduated medschool...

Edit: I don't see myself as an "overachiever", but, I certainly have never attempted for "average".

 

[Substance]

Thanks. Seriously. I have really enjoyed disliking you over the last 2 years, and with your recent flurry of humor and self-effacing comments I have almost considered finding you likeable. If you also proved to be hot I would have to bow to the trifecta. Not knowing really IS much better for me....

She most likely is hot.

Given what I remember about her past posts, she's engaged to some hotshot investment lawyer type who got some swanky place in Manhattan. Now, those guys generally make hardcore coin and never settle for even the usual pretty looking girls. They tend to go all Italian Vogue with their women.

That, and she's likely a Rhodes scholar too, what with the Oxford degree being paid for by an educational "trust fund" as per one of her past posts as well.

As for the original question: I can't be Mr. Average - I'm Canadian.

 

[Doowai]

She most likely is hot.

Given what I remember about her past posts, she's engaged to some hotshot investment lawyer type who got some swanky place in Manhattan. Now, those guys generally make hardcore coin and never settle for even the usual pretty looking girls. They tend to go all Italian Vogue with their women.

That, and she's likely a Rhodes scholar too, what with the Oxford degree being paid for by an educational "trust fund" as per one of her past posts as well.

As for the original question: I can't be Mr. Average - I'm Canadian.

Oh krikey, way to feed that super-cool big ego of hers. Realizing her self-effacing comments are merely calculated and not sincere keeps the potential for puppydog likeability from taking root.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

Oh krikey, way to feed that super-cool big ego of hers. Realizing her self-effacing comments are merely calculated and not sincere keeps the potential for puppydog likeability from taking root.

DUNH DUNH DUNH
Another one bites the dust!
DUNH DUNH DUNH

Doowai, you just gotta see me in person... the shapeless blue scrubs... hair pulled back... weeks without makeup... black circles under the eyes... coffee emanating from every pore...

Seriously, I'm beatin' the boys off with sticks. 🙄

 

[Samoa]

No kidding. Scrubs have this magical ability to amplify figure flaws while simultaneously hiding anything attractive. On balance, though, I think that's a good thing.

 

[Danbo1957]

Depends on who's wearing them:

 

[Substance]

Oh krikey, way to feed that super-cool big ego of hers. Realizing her self-effacing comments are merely calculated and not sincere keeps the potential for puppydog likeability from taking root.

I know what you're saying. Here's a story:

In last year's graduating med school class, there was this one girl who was quite attractive. Lots of guys went ga-ga over her. If you asked her what she wanted to do for a living, she'd say "family medicine", since its the bastion of selflessness. If you asked her how you think the test went, she'd say "it was really hard. I probably failed it" with an unconvincing lacksadaisacal tone. If she mentioned her overall average, it would be "around 70%".

Come match day, she did ophthalmology.

Come graduation day, she was in the top 10th percentile.

I was the only person in the school who called her out on her BS the first time I heard it years ago. Her veil was thin and easy to see through, yet nobody said much about it - the girls were likely very intimidated, and the guys didn't want to miss out on any chances that may have led to vaginal penetration.

What I'm saying is that there exists plenty of super-hot, super-confident, super-smart people out there who feel that they have to temper their accomplishments and abilities while interacting with the average folk. They exhibit an insincere facade of self-deprecation and humility, while inside they know that they are the cream of the crop. Perhaps they feel a sanctimonious need to tether their greatness lest the average types lose all hope of ever achieving the supremacy they see before them. It's hard to sympathize with this behavior.

This is not referring to BlondeDoc in any way, since I have not met, and will likely never meet her in real life.

 

[McGillGrad]

It sounds like you are bitter.

The girl is your story sounds grounded and humble. I don't know the whole story but if she acted in an opposite manner and openly showed-off her high grades and acted like she was in the top percentile of her class, then I would be turned off. She was the opposite and I find it hard to believe that her behaviour was in any way negative.

I know what you're saying. Here's a story:

In last year's graduating med school class, there was this one girl who was quite attractive. Lots of guys went ga-ga over her. If you asked her what she wanted to do for a living, she'd say "family medicine", since its the bastion of selflessness. If you asked her how you think the test went, she'd say "it was really hard. I probably failed it" with an unconvincing lacksadaisacal tone. If she mentioned her overall average, it would be "around 70%".

Come match day, she did ophthalmology.

Come graduation day, she was in the top 10th percentile.

I was the only person in the school who called her out on her BS the first time I heard it years ago. Her veil was thin and easy to see through, yet nobody said much about it - the girls were likely very intimidated, and the guys didn't want to miss out on any chances that may have led to vaginal penetration.

What I'm saying is that there exists plenty of super-hot, super-confident, super-smart people out there who feel that they have to temper their accomplishments and abilities while interacting with the average folk. They exhibit an insincere facade of self-deprecation and humility, while inside they know that they are the cream of the crop. Perhaps they feel a sanctimonious need to tether their greatness lest the average types lose all hope of ever achieving the supremacy they see before them. It's hard to sympathize with this behavior.

This is not referring to BlondeDoc in any way, since I have not met, and will likely never meet her in real life.

 

[Substance]

It sounds like you are bitter.

This was an unwarranted insult.

The girl is your story sounds grounded and humble. I don't know the whole story but if she acted in an opposite manner and openly showed-off her high grades and acted like she was in the top percentile of her class, then I would be turned off. She was the opposite and I find it hard to believe that her behaviour was in any way negative.

I disagree, although I can see your point of view. Allow me to elaborate why I found her attitude rather phony:

She was the type of person who played her cards very close to her chest. Though she was gunning for ophtho since day one, with research and schmoozing, she would never admit it. Instead, she would tell people that she was going for family practice. This was, in my opinion, both a way for her to seem selfless and humble in spite of her intelligence and sex appeal, and a way to make other people in the class relax academically so that she would experience less daunting competition.

Furthermore, though I think that her academic performance was nobody's business but her own, I felt that her blatant lying about her marks was a poor attempt at subterfuge: the logic that if she's pulling 70s, then others would feel just fine with their 85s, again with the result of lowering potential competition. Lying in any form, especially when lying is completely unnecessary, is a character flaw that is not to be respected. I'd rather know an honest braggart than a humble liar, any day!

I fail to see how any of her actions display even the most remote semblance of humility.

 

[Doowai]

It sounds like you are bitter.

The girl is your story sounds grounded and humble. I don't know the whole story but if she acted in an opposite manner and openly showed-off her high grades and acted like she was in the top percentile of her class, then I would be turned off. She was the opposite and I find it hard to believe that her behaviour was in any way negative.

She was deceptive- saying she was going into FP (a lie) and that her scores were much lower than what they really were. It was beyond humility it was deceptive, a lie.

I also find over-humility offensive. I could give many examples. I have a friend , former pro-football linebacker who played 6 years for Miami. I have watched him decline bench press 810 LBS for 2-4 reps a few times. When asked he does not brag at length, but he also does not dismiss his freakish strength - he simply states the obvious "I am a freak of nature". If he were to say some over humble crap like "I really am not that strong etc etc etc" than all he does is make we lower mortal feel even worse.

The Harvard grad who states "I went to this little school near Boston...", waiting for you to ask where so they can drop the bomb of Harvard is playing games. If you are going into Derm or Ophth or whatever, why not just be honest. Not saying your comments about your ability have to be " .....And then I did this, and then I did that,...ok enough talking about my accomplishments, lets talk about something different now. Lets talk about my undeveloped talents". But to cover up such things is also insulting because the person obviously feels that the lowly general population they have to deal with cannot handle their sheer awesomeness.

Over-humility is insulting on so many levels, and in large part because it is willfull lying. The overly-humble are never your friends, if you were their friend they would be honest with you. I have no problem that my freak-of-nature friend is much stronger than I am, its who he is. He has his problems too - which he is also honest about. I do not feel ashamed by my bench press which still has never broken the 400 LB mark

The overly-humble by virtue of their subterfuge indicate we are unable to handle whatever it is they cover. The thinness of the veil with which they cover it adds to the insult to, because they act as though others cannot see through it - insulting intelligence.

I have hung around many people who are great on some level (athletics, finance and income, celebrity status, education-career-scientific discovery, etc) and felt comfortable - but the overly-humble are not among people I feel comfortable with.

"Oh this little rock...I think they call it the Hope diamond. Supposedly its valuable".

I find nothing at all admirable about someone who is great at something draping a thin veil of insincere humility about themselves. Like we should be sooo grateful to be protected from the blinding brilliance of their achievements.

Once the obfuscation is discovered,I feel annoyed. But to each his own - for you it sounds like you feel appreciative that someone would assuage your ego by pretending to be less than they are.

 

[Doowai]

This was an unwarranted insult.

I disagree, although I can see your point of view. Allow me to elaborate why I found her attitude rather phony:

She was the type of person who played her cards very close to her chest. Though she was gunning for ophtho since day one, with research and schmoozing, she would never admit it. Instead, she would tell people that she was going for family practice. This was, in my opinion, both a way for her to seem selfless and humble in spite of her intelligence and sex appeal, and a way to make other people in the class relax academically so that she would experience less daunting competition.

Furthermore, though I think that her academic performance was nobody's business but her own, I felt that her blatant lying about her marks was a poor attempt at subterfuge: the logic that if she's pulling 70s, then others would feel just fine with their 85s, again with the result of lowering potential competition. Lying in any form, especially when lying is completely unnecessary, is a character flaw that is not to be respected. I'd rather know an honest braggart than a humble liar, any day!

I fail to see how any of her actions display even the most remote semblance of humility.

Obviously you were going almost exactly where I was at the same time. I would have just let you post if I had known

There is a big difference between someone being better than me AT something, and someone who simply feels they are better than me. Thinly veiled humility says "I am better than you", not just I am better than you AT something. Or even several things

 

[Long Dong]

I know what you're saying. Here's a story:

In last year's graduating med school class, there was this one girl who was quite attractive. Lots of guys went ga-ga over her. If you asked her what she wanted to do for a living, she'd say "family medicine", since its the bastion of selflessness. If you asked her how you think the test went, she'd say "it was really hard. I probably failed it" with an unconvincing lacksadaisacal tone. If she mentioned her overall average, it would be "around 70%".

Come match day, she did ophthalmology.

Come graduation day, she was in the top 10th percentile.

I was the only person in the school who called her out on her BS the first time I heard it years ago. Her veil was thin and easy to see through, yet nobody said much about it - the girls were likely very intimidated, and the guys didn't want to miss out on any chances that may have led to vaginal penetration.

What I'm saying is that there exists plenty of super-hot, super-confident, super-smart people out there who feel that they have to temper their accomplishments and abilities while interacting with the average folk. They exhibit an insincere facade of self-deprecation and humility, while inside they know that they are the cream of the crop. Perhaps they feel a sanctimonious need to tether their greatness lest the average types lose all hope of ever achieving the supremacy they see before them. It's hard to sympathize with this behavior.

This is not referring to BlondeDoc in any way, since I have not met, and will likely never meet her in real life.

Most derm applicants are like this.

 

[BGriffin]

No kidding. Scrubs have this magical ability to amplify figure flaws while simultaneously hiding anything attractive. On balance, though, I think that's a good thing.

I've more recently seen some nurses and aides with fitted, boot cut scrub bottoms that aren't high waisted and baggy like traditional scrubs. They have generally looked very good in them, at least in my male opinion 👍

 

[Samoa]

Those are nurse scrubs, that they've bought and paid for. Plus, the ones who wear the hot scrubs are usually looking to get noticed for their hotness. I'd rather be noticed for my smokin' doctor skillz.

 

[eforest]

1) Male No

2) Caucasian Yes

3) An allopathic student/grad Yes

4) Have your undergraduate degree in Biology: No

5) Undergrad GPA of 3.63 No (Lower)

6) MCAT of 30 Higher No (Higher)

7) Step 1 of 215 No (Higher)

8) In Internal Medicine Probably not

9) Went in-state to their state medical school No

10) 24 upon enrollment, 28 at graduation No (Older)

11) Have at least one publication Yes

12) Matched at one of their top 3 on their rank list unknown

13) Graduated at the 50th %ile in their class No (likely lower)

3/13

 

[Substance]

What do you mean by caucasian? Are you referring to the term "white American" as used by the census. Or are you referring to a more broad term, encompassing the anthropologic definition?

I hate the political correct overusage of the terms "caucasian" for white and "African-American" for black sub-Saharan Africans. Not all caucasians are white, nor are all African-Americans black sub-Saharans.

 

[Mariah246]

3/13

I maintain I'm still above average

 

[BlondeDocteur]

Those are nurse scrubs, that they've bought and paid for. Plus, the ones who wear the hot scrubs are usually looking to get noticed for their hotness. I'd rather be noticed for my smokin' doctor skillz.

Yeah, likewise. They buy specially tailored nursing scrubs meant for the female body-- and meant to show it off. Not the message that I'd care to send, myself. I'm happy with our baggy, male, waist-to-hip ratio of 1 scrubs.

And I strongly agree with Doowai/Substance on the issue of false humility. It's a virtue to be modest, and occasionally playing things down (always good) may slide into lying. I class that as the sort of "no, those jeans don't make your @ss look big" sort of lie. Not something I'd do, but not something I can completely condemn either. If, for example, a classmate whom you knew was struggling came up to you and admitted he was worried about a test and found it hard, it's just nice to say "yeah, it was really hard." Even if you had no trouble with it, you can objectively admit it was difficult and comfort your classmate. The white lie would be "I'm worried I failed." I wouldn't say that, personally, unless it were true, but it's not evil.

The bad lie, the one I condemn, would be the one Substance's classmate told-- "I failed," or "I scored 71" when the actual grade was 20 points higher. Blatantly and repeatedly lying-- as in denying career plans, for example, over the course of four years, or making up fictitious test scores-- I see as devious. In Substance's example, or in the case of derm applicants, students are likely to say "family medicine" because it will lead to higher evaluations on the wards and therefore improve one's chances of matching into their truly desired specialty. Derm in particular sets off alarm bells.

 

[BlondeDocteur]

What do you mean by caucasian? Are you referring to the term "white American" as used by the census. Or are you referring to a more broad term, encompassing the anthropologic definition?

I hate the political correct overusage of the terms "caucasian" for white and "African-American" for black sub-Saharan Africans. Not all caucasians are white, nor are all African-Americans black sub-Saharans.

I dunno, whatever the AAMC means by it. Their categories, not mine.

Is the anthropologic definition cultural/ethnic ("someone descended from the people groups of the Caucasus mountains, or to the west thereto") or physical, conforming to certain anthropometric measurements? I doubt that the AAMC counts people of North Indian descent as Cacuasian, though they do count other Middle Easterners (Arabs, Persians), as does the US Census.

I'll tell you what. If you could possibly refer to yourself as "whitey," or "tha Man," then you count. Deal?

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Yeah, likewise. They buy specially tailored nursing scrubs meant for the female body-- and meant to show it off. Not the message that I'd care to send, myself. I'm happy with our baggy, male, waist-to-hip ratio of 1 scrubs.

And I strongly agree with Doowai/Substance on the issue of false humility. It's a virtue to be modest, and occasionally playing things down (always good) may slide into lying. I class that as the sort of "no, those jeans don't make your @ss look big" sort of lie. Not something I'd do, but not something I can completely condemn either. If, for example, a classmate whom you knew was struggling came up to you and admitted he was worried about a test and found it hard, it's just nice to say "yeah, it was really hard." Even if you had no trouble with it, you can objectively admit it was difficult and comfort your classmate. The white lie would be "I'm worried I failed." I wouldn't say that, personally, unless it were true, but it's not evil.

The bad lie, the one I condemn, would be the one Substance's classmate told-- "I failed," or "I scored 71" when the actual grade was 20 points higher. Blatantly and repeatedly lying-- as in denying career plans, for example, over the course of four years, or making up fictitious test scores-- I see as devious. In Substance's example, or in the case of derm applicants, students are likely to say "family medicine" because it will lead to higher evaluations on the wards and therefore improve one's chances of matching into their truly desired specialty. Derm in particular sets off alarm bells.

Which brings up another topic: what to say about interests when on the wards?

I've been honest in the past, saying that I was inclined towards IM (this was on neuro and psych rotations). However, can being honest hurt you on rotations like surgery or ob/gyn, where they may look down on IM? Clearly, I'm not going to outright lie that I'm interested in surgery or ob/gyn, but perhaps I should be a bit more discrete in voicing my interests on certain rotations?

Agreed on false humility. I hate being praised but I usually just brush it off and don't go out of my way to forge facts. I never mention test scores unless asked directly and usually just say "did OK" on the exam when it's a good score (80-100) or "did horribly" when it's an awful score (i.e. in the 60s, which has happened once in med school).